Argo's Losing more than games!

According to the National Post the Argo's are losing more than games this year and attendance to the Roger's Centre the team is also hurting financially in the franchise.

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I hope we pack the Roger's Centre full of hungry Tiger-Cat Fans and watch our players dine on Argo's Friday night, the Cats are circling the Argo ship!!


A vague report at best, lacking in specifics as of course Mr. Braley is a private owner.

just a reminder the game is at 4pm on sat

hmmm ya. that article basically told us what we have already known for years

everyone carry on, nothing to see here

This franchise is having some serious issues behind the scenes ! Something has to be done ASAP before it is too late ! 3 more years at Rogers centre will be the demise of the franchise :thdn:

Yeah...sadly I don't know what we as Hamilton fans can really do for the Argos apart from driving down the road to go see our Cats thump the Argos.

Three more years?? do you actually think that Braley will continue with these huge losses?
It's not like they are looking attractive to any potential buyers either.
A year ago everyone was talking about the new TV contract and how that was going to save the Argos. If the Argos had maintained their attendance (23k x $50) maybe the bleeding would have stopped with $2 Million more from the TV contract. But a loss of at least 6k fans a game means around $3 Million less in ticket sales, so even after the extra $2 Million from the TV deal they are over $1 Million worse off than last year.
It's not like the Argos can move over to BMO next year. the Phase 1 expansion is next year and Phase 2 is the year after. The plan for Phase 3 if it gets approved is for 2017.

I am including in this post.....what I think is one of the most intelligent comments on the CFL I have seen in a long time. It comes from the comments after the National Post story on the Blue team that is linked on this thread.
It addresses not only the sad state of the Blue team but also the effect of sports ownership in Toronto, the CFL and in other sports. It was written by "Saxum" and well worth a read:
" As football, like several other 'sports', has gone from being an athletic contest on the playing field, to being just a convenient partner to sell stuff, my interest has waned exponentially as the distance between an athletic contest, and being a partner to sell stuff, got closer and closer and closer. Now sports and selling stuff are 'siamese twins'. And my active participation is close to zero.

It has all been brought about by the big bucks that television contracts have given to the various sports leagues. Initially, the TV producers were happy to be included as being partners with the sports. At that time, decades ago, media columnists predicted that the TV tail would eventually wag the dog. It came to pass. Long ago.

TV now dictates that their commercials take precedence over the sport being played on the field of competition. And so, whenever the TV moguls decide that they want to insert a commercial, as previously arranged with the contracts which the leagues accepted, then the game draws to a halt.

And so, at football games, athletes who are (arguably) more conditioned and skilled than ever before, stand around with their hands on their hips. To distract the 'crowd' from growing increasingly restive, balls are bounced around or thrown into the stands, cheerleaders mimicking strippers strut their stuff, and noise in the form of somebody's idea of music, whose decibels are just short of rupturing the eardrums of those in attendance, is blasted over the speakers.

That people still are willing to leave their homes in all sorts of weather and get themselves to the stadium, often fighting traffic conditions, and then being milked in order that they can find a place to park their vehicles, and then, when they get into the stadium, the fans who have made the effort to support the team franchise financially by buying tickets, those fans are then made to languish in their seats while the team management and their 'partners', the TV moguls, ignore the fans at the stadium so that they can sell 'stuff' to the TV audience.

And so Canadian football games, which used to be almost non-top affairs on the field, except for when an injured player had to be tended to, those games now drag on, and on, and on.

Canadian football used to be a superior game for the entertainment of fans compared with the American game. That was because the rules were different. And those rules then offered opportunities for creative plays on the field which are now rarely, if ever seen.

About the 1950s, Americans started coming into Canadian football in the forms of players and coaches. Like the camel driving the residents out of their tent, the Americans gradually had the Canadian rules morph more closely to the U.S. model. That changed the play on the field. Canadian athletes, whose skills were potentially equal to those of the Americans, those young Canadians were sidelined. American coaches, and team finances, did not permit young Canadians to be kept to develop as backups for a few years. The American university football factories grind out thousands of players each year. So, why would American coaches 'waste time' developing Canadians when they could get a 'finished product' by simply making a telephone call to their American football friends in the U.S.?

There are several angles to this - including how TV has changed their presentation of the game and has made it an abomination to attempt to watch in full. (But, that will not be gone into here.)

I used to go to several CFL games each year. The last season that Doug Flutie was with the Argos, I went to every home game. And, at those games, with hot dogs being thrown into the stands, and the mindless distractions as noted, assaulting those of us in the stands, I increasingly asked myself why I was making the effort to get to the Skydome to be exposed to dreck in exchange for the money I had forked out.

Increasingly, the irrationality of my behaviour finally twigged on me and I stopped going. I haven't been back since. And my interest in sports is now limited to reading news such as which 'athlete' has assaulted his girlfriend or robbed a convenience store, and which team owner is trying to blackmail the city where the franchise is located in order to extort a new stadium; otherwise the team will move. And so on. And while most of the foregoing applies to U.S. football, we have our own Canadian soap operas going on here as to which CFL team might fold. and whether or not the stadium in Hamilton should have had a roof and when will it finally be finished? And will the CFL ever expand beyond the fluctuating numbers of eight or nine teams?

But, given the crowds that attend these events (except for the Argos which is a unique problem), every year, millions of people are willing to be taken to the cleaners for tickets and parking and pay outrageous prices for snacks in the stadium and for the purchase of team merchandise. And they are willing to sit on their hands for the numerous TV commercial breaks, and the never-ending timeouts in variety on the field of play.

So, I wish them well in their enjoyment of their teams. I've got other stuff to do.``

Food for thought.

Just wanted to add re the above quote that I included...that going to a game in Hamilton is obviously a much more enjoyable experience than it is in Toronto. And it makes me realize how lucky we are to have Bob Young as a caretaker and some incredibly loyal fans who continued to support this team through both the good and the lean years. :smiley:

The Argos and the CFL can't afford the Boatmen losing this game or their attendance could drop even more at Roger's. Should be interesting to see what happens. If the last game is any indignation of what could happen it may not be a happy one for the TiCats fans.

Yes, it's great that fans are willing to come out and pay the ticket prices and the concession prices.
I have to agree with the comment from the person in the Post article about TV. I have been to a few games this year in Ottawa, great atmosphere etc but the games do drag on because of the TV broadcasts.
What is frustrating is that a team gets a drive going and then the guy in the red hat runs on to the field, waves the red flag and the ref blows the whistle for a time out for a TSN TV ad. It seems like forever we are sitting around and then the ad is over the guy runs back on the field and waves his red flag, play is whistled in.
Then a player will go down and they whistle play and take another ad.
I don't know what's happening but its seems to me that games have really slowed down and you notice it more when you are actually at a game. If you are watching on TV it doesn't seem that bad.
With all the TV breaks, the penalties, the injuries the sloweness of the game, I can understand people preferring to sit at home, at least you can turn the channel between the time outs

The problem as I see it for T.O. (and, sadly, Hamilton for that matter) is proximity and ease of access. Take a look at this link:

NFL stadiums for the most part have some very similar attributes. Most importantly for the fans, is that for they generally are surrounded by acres of parking directly on the stadium location. All of that parking is serviced by wide arterial roads and, again, in most cases directly adjacent to a major highway for ease of access. I would assume that parking is free or, included in the cost of a ticket so there is little additional cost to just getting in to the game.

Now before you say, "yeah but, the NFL has so many fans per game and so much more money to invest in the infrastructure" maybe that's because they planned for ease of access knowing that traveling to and from a game and the ease of access is one of the most important factors in keeping fans coming back again and again and that the reason so many fans now attend NFL events is because it is easy and (relatively) cheap to get there. Add in the tradition of the "tailgate party" and you have an outstanding fan experience, game in, game out, year in year out. (Just as a side note - the NFL in fact has very little $. All franchises are privately (non-league) owned and the NFL itself is a not-for-profit corporation)

Toronto has the population to support the Argos many times over. I for one believe that the majority of fans stay away because a) the poor game experience in the dome which has been covered at length; b) it's just too much of a hassle to get in and get out. Try and get into DT Toronto with ease for anything let alone when 30k other folks are trying to get down there too. In my view, any attempt to "save" the Argos must include a location with ease of ingress and egress and for that fact alone it should not be downtown. People don't want to take buses and trains to sporting events. They want to drive their own vehicles. Trying to force public transit on the average fan will, and very apparently has failed. Now I'm sure someone will say "yeah but look at... (enter stadium or city here)" as an indication that a team can thrive where access is limited. And I will grant you that there are those anomalies but they are just that; anomalies. Those types of situations must spring up organically (pardon the cliche) and cannot be forced or created. That just doesn't work.

The NFL does it up right. T.O. should follow that lead. Or, fate will decide.


Suburban stadiums was SO 1970's. Downtown stadiums are where all the action is. Were in the 21st century. Enough with the backwards thinking and urban srawl. Transportation needs to be increased. People have no problems getting to the ACC for raps and leaf games. Or rogers centre for Jays games, or BMO for leaf games.

The argos attendance problems has nothing to do with the stadium not being located in a suburban wasteland.

Also your assumption that stadium parking is free is wrong. The Bills charge in upwards of 30$ for parking and they are looking to build their new stadium downtown.

Winnipeg built their stadium with acres of space around and ppl are complaining about how hard it is to get there and that its in the middle of nowhere. Atlanta and Minesotia are building new stadiums downtown. Detroit is downtown, as is New Orleans, Seattle, Carolina, Cincinati. Pittsburgh, Houston, St louis etc etc. They aren't "anomolies"

And if you've ever driven out of Ralph Wilson after a game you'd know that traffic is a nightmare. As is the case with Winnipeg. Building stadiums in the middle of nowehre doesn't alleviate traffic issues.

The argos problem isn't that the stadium is downtown. The jays tfc, leafs, raptors all surive, are you saying that they are anomolies. The argos problem is a brand image and marketing problem. Compounded by a garbage secondary tennant agreement where they are the red headed step child.

Ask ppl in Ottawa what they think about building their hockey arena out in Kanata in the middle of nowhere. Most new arenas are built in the downtown area, all the teams survive. You can't tell me every NHL and NBA arena is an "anomoly" if attendance is doing well.

Your theory of building stadiums in the middle of nowhere died in the 1970's.

^^ add to that, Tailgating is illegal in Ontario. So even if you build a stadium in the middle of nowhere ppl would be ticketed for having open alch.

I know the box j boys do it here on smaller scale. But theres a big difference when you 30 000 ppl tailgating as opposed to 100 ppl. The cops wouldn’t be looking the other way with the former.

If what you say is true, why are the "70's model" stadiums that are so hard to get in and out of and everyone complains about the location, filled game after game, year after year?

And, I don't buy your conclusion that the Leafs, Jays and Raptors are surviving and they are downtown. Have you been to a Jays game? not nearly the attendance you make it out to be. And the Leafs will always pack the arena, because they are the leafs. A new start up NHL franchise would not survive in the downtown.

As are all the downtown stadiums packing the building. Why do the bills want to move their stadium downtown? Why does Chicago New orleans detroit sell out downtown?

And not all 70s models stadium are filled up year after year. Oakland is half empty all the time. And the reason some are filled up is because tailgating is LEGAL there where over here its not. The Jays the last two years have had attendance in the high 20 000’s. Everyone goes to restaurants and nightlife downtown as part of the experience. You mean to tell me that a jays stadium in a field in the middle of brampton would draw more fans? they have 81 home games a year, tough to sell 50 000 all the time.

A new start up franchise would most definately sell out downtown? are you crazy? hockey starved fans would pack the arena if another NHL team would sell tix at even 80% of the price of the leafs. and the nhl knows that. That’s why the proposed Toronto expansion team would be a second team at the ACC.

The fact that you believe a second NHL team wouldn’t survive at the ACC makes me not consider any of your arguments as credible.

New Orleans, Chicago, and Detroit sell out because they are NFL teams with a rich history, AND (with the exception of the Lions) have a habit of getting to the playoffs with regularity. Oakland is half-empty because :cry: they have been the worst team in the NFL for the past 15 years (some could say the worst team in the NFL AND the CFL). The Jays, back when they were winning the World Series, SELDOM had fewer than 45k fans in the SkyDump (I was there). Winning solves the majority of a sports team's problems.

Can't argue with that. Although with the Argos I can see winning add maybe a couple thousand fans but nowhere close to selling out the Rogers Centre. There needs to be a significant culture change there, it has to be seen as the "cool" thing to do as is the case with the young generation at Ticats games.

That, and a more intimate stadium. Face it - RC is entirely the wrong place for them. I fear that BMO Field might be a bandage on a burst pipe, unless some SIGNIFICANT cash is thrown in. There has to be name recognition (aside from Ricky Ray and 2che-bag Owens), MUCH better marketing, appealing to more cultures, working with kids and high schools to promote football. You have to start at the grass-roots level, to get the younger generation to get their parents to take them to @#$% football games.

2.3 million people went to Jays games this year. Almost EVERY Saturday and Sunday game topped 30,000 and about 20 of them topped 40,000. I should know I was at a lot of them from Hamilton as were thousands of other people on GO Trains and busses. Plus something like 10,000 arrive by subway for those weekend games. The ACC draws about 15,000 - 20,000 as often as five nights a week between all the concerts and sporting events there - the vast majority arriving by transit.

Look at most of the RECENTLY built NFL and MLB stadiums and NBA/NHL arenas - the vast majority downtown.

A suburban sprawl stadium in the middle of nowhere with a Canada's Wonderland sized parking lot around it is exactly the WRONG way to go.