Argos DO NOT need a new stadium

[Area_51]

@"Earl"

My guess is Steve Milton knows much more than anyone on this board. I trust you take no offence Area_51:

In about three years, the Blue Jays will install natural grass at Rogers Centre, and the Argos will be tossed out of there for good.

I stand by my assessments and analysis.

This Steve Milton character really hurts any credibility that he has with his declaration that it’s a certainty that natural grass will be installed at the Dome.

It seems the majority here have now come to the realization that dropping a quarter BILLION just to install natural grass in what will be a 29yr old stadium that’s already badly out of date is a complete farce. Of course a few media shills and those who take every sports announcement they hear at face value will continue to cling to the belief that a miracle will happen and grass will get installed.

There will never be natural grass installed in the Dome.

Let’s revisit in three years and see how my take compares to the Milton guy.

[rhymes_with_orange]

The Lions have an odd situation on their hands. Their stadium holds 54,000, but they typically draw in the 28,000 - 30,000 range most games (strangely, they draw better as the season goes on - the opposite of most of the country). Their average attendance is great for most CFL stadiums; not for a giant dome. One could say, "just close off the upper deck then," but then they'd be losing customers for the sake of better optics.

The sensible thing to me would be to put up tasteful looking, high quality, row-covering tarps of Lions greats from the past (I hate the word 'tarp' 'cause it sounds so cheap). These "tarps" would cover the upper deck endzones, to about the 20-25 yard line. Then seat people on each side up top - between the 20s. It would be an immense improvement on the sea of emptry seats which you see now.

And while the massive high-def scoreboard over center field is like the 8th wonder of the world, the roof opening is like the 9th wonder. As in "I wonder why they'd spend $500MM on a reno and make the roof opening so puny?!?"

[Area_51]

@"drummer_god"

I don’t believe that this is anything more than an excuse to kick the argos out to the streets and making life difficult for them. Once the argos solidify plans to exit the skydome, the jays will go back on their plans to put grass into the skydome.

If we acknowledge the reality that natural grass will never get installed at the Dome, what impetus is there for Rogers to lose a tenant? It defies logic for Rogers to have the Dome sit empty instead of hosting an Argo game where it can at least make a bit of money.

Is it an attempt to kill off the Argos? It’s obvious that Toronto has ZERO hope of ever getting an NFL team, so eliminating the Argos makes no sense. Again, it just takes away a tenant for the building. And vacant buildings don’t generate much revenue.

[Area_51]

@"rhymes with orange"

The sensible thing to me would be to put up tasteful looking, high quality, row-covering tarps of Lions greats from the past (I hate the word ‘tarp’ 'cause it sounds so cheap). These “tarps” would cover the upper deck endzones, to about the 20-25 yard line. Then seat people on each side up top - between the 20s. It would be an immense improvement on the sea of emptry seats which you see now.

And while the massive high-def scoreboard over center field is like the 8th wonder of the world, the roof opening is like the 9th wonder. As in “I wonder why they’d spend $500MM on a reno and make the roof opening so puny?!?”

Haha, well played.

You’re right, “tarps” are infinitely better than just leaving the seats empty. The Argos did it for a few seasons, but then someone decided they couldn’t be bothered to make the effort anymore.

I’m trying to decide which is the dumbest idea - - $500M to convert a dome into a retractable roof, or $250M to convert field turf into natural grass?

[bomber_empire]

So again the question has to be asked, why is Rogers booting out the Argos ?

[BCRiderFan]

@"danfootball48"

Bc Place here in Vancouver is on of the worse stadiums also terrible sidelines, nobody there on a given night, and the roof only opens half way ( if you can call it opening a roof more like a sun roof) waist of money, lions need to get into a much smaller stadium, 35,000 seats like the new bombers stadium.

will not go to a game in there .

You know what? I’ve been going to BC Place since 1991 (after living on the prairies and going to all the western stadiums), and your comment is beyond ridiculous. BC Place is a beautiful place to see a game, probably top 1 or 2 in the league, and had a great atmosphere at the games I went to this year, with good crowds. And I’m not a Lions fan.

I’m calling you out as a non-fan. You stay home, you’re a pathetic excuse for a CFL “fan”. Seeya.

[BCRiderFan]

@"bomber_empire"

@"Earl"

Never been to BC Place but it is first and foremost a football stadium and it does rain a lot in Vancouver. But I don’t know about the seating. Looks excellent on television though as a football stadium. Don’t they lower the roof for Whitecaps games? Couldn’t they do that for Lions games?

BC Place was built for Expo 86, it’s a generic multipurpose stadium, it’s essentially Canada’s version of the Metrodome, not a football stadium first a foremost. It’s a multipurpose facility, wasn’t built with one thing in mind, it was built for a lot of uses.

The roof doesn’t lower for Whitecap games, they put up these tarps or whatever you want to call them, to “block” the upper level.

http://www.insidevancouver.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/whitecaps_final.jpg

@"danfootball48"

Bc Place here in Vancouver is on of the worse stadiums also terrible sidelines, nobody there on a given night, and the roof only opens half way ( if you can call it opening a roof more like a sun roof) waist of money, lions need to get into a much smaller stadium, 35,000 seats like the new bombers stadium.

will not go to a game in there .

Sounds like BC fans have the same excuses as Argo fans.

@"K/P"

I really don’t see what the problem is here. I love watching CFL football, weather its in Empire Stadium, a parking lot, Alumni Stadium, Skydome whatever!!! The Skydome is unique its in own way and whenever I can watch the Ticats lay a beatdown on the blows @ SkyDome, I can’t get enough of the place!

:rockin: its a great place to host Grey Cups too!

I agree K/P, while I’m not a fan of the dome, it hasn’t stopped me from attending games there. I absolutely loathe tracks in football stadiums but have enjoyed the games I’ve seen at Commonwealth and Percival Molson (IMO the sight lines were a lot better at Molson though).

BC Place is my second favourite place to see a game after Taylor Field. His comments are beyond stupid.

[Area_51]

@"bomber_empire"

So again the question has to be asked, why is Rogers booting out the Argos ?

Posturing.

The Argos just sign a new five years awe a d Rogers immediately announces they won’t be renewing it. I don’t know if you e ever been a landlord or have had any dealings with leasehold properties, but when you’ve just freshly signed a new lease the last thing you tell the tenant is “I’m not renewing it after the term”.

Such a weak and transparent bluff by Rogers.

Braley and his legion of apologists and baglicks claims he’s losing $6M a year on the Argos. Do you really think he’s going to be excited about the idea of having to come up with $200M or more on a new stadium? Obviously Braley can pull some strings with his government friends - - we saw that with the unprecedented $9.5M handout for the Grey Cup. But it’s going to be tough to get a fully taxpayer funded stadium.

Renovate BMO? That’s going to cost Braley money too. And he won’t even own the stadium he dumps money into.

Rogers is trying to squeeze Braley for the Argos. Apparently he’s asking a ridiculous price, especially when compared to what he paid Cynamon & Sokolowski - - ZERO. Rogers forces him to either shell out tens of millions on a new place to play or else sell them the Argos and put a few million in his pocket.

Rogers position is further strengthened by this being Braley’s last Grey Cup jackpot for several more years. Naturally, if he could keep reaping those multi million dollar bonanzas every other year he’d keep two CFL teams.

Rogers isn’t a dumb company. They can see the tv rating the CFL pulls. And those ratings are steadily increasing. With an extra team, they’ll be even more. The NFL in Toronto is a lost cause, so Rogers will now slink back tail between legs to get in with the CFL. Taking ownership of the Argos is the first step.

Argos will take over the Dome and the Blue Jays will get a new stadium. Everything owned by Rogers. Argos have no need for a new stadium - - they just need a new marketing plan. They’ll drop a few million to change up some of the seating once the Jays leave and get their new stadium, but the Argos will be in the Dome long term.

[1991argo]

Argos need new owners and CEO for there football team more then they need a new stadium!

[joedavtav]

@"Area_51"

@"Earl"

My guess is Steve Milton knows much more than anyone on this board. I trust you take no offence Area_51:

In about three years, the Blue Jays will install natural grass at Rogers Centre, and the Argos will be tossed out of there for good.

I stand by my assessments and analysis.

This Steve Milton character really hurts any credibility that he has with his declaration that it’s a certainty that natural grass will be installed at the Dome.

It seems the majority here have now come to the realization that dropping a quarter BILLION just to install natural grass in what will be a 29yr old stadium that’s already badly out of date is a complete farce. Of course a few media shills and those who take every sports announcement they hear at face value will continue to cling to the belief that a miracle will happen and grass will get installed.

There will never be natural grass installed in the Dome.

Let’s revisit in three years and see how my take compares to the Milton guy.

Steve Milton is in the Canadian Football Hall of Fame Media Wing… He is a well spoken and extremely versed sports writer. One of the best, if not the best in the country.

[bomber_empire]

@"Area_51"

Posturing.

The Argos just sign a new five years awe a d Rogers immediately announces they won’t be renewing it. I don’t know if you e ever been a landlord or have had any dealings with leasehold properties, but when you’ve just freshly signed a new lease the last thing you tell the tenant is “I’m not renewing it after the term”.

Such a weak and transparent bluff by Rogers.

Braley and his legion of apologists and baglicks claims he’s losing $6M a year on the Argos. Do you really think he’s going to be excited about the idea of having to come up with $200M or more on a new stadium? Obviously Braley can pull some strings with his government friends - - we saw that with the unprecedented $9.5M handout for the Grey Cup. But it’s going to be tough to get a fully taxpayer funded stadium.

Renovate BMO? That’s going to cost Braley money too. And he won’t even own the stadium he dumps money into.

Rogers is trying to squeeze Braley for the Argos. Apparently he’s asking a ridiculous price, especially when compared to what he paid Cynamon & Sokolowski - - ZERO. Rogers forces him to either shell out tens of millions on a new place to play or else sell them the Argos and put a few million in his pocket.

Rogers position is further strengthened by this being Braley’s last Grey Cup jackpot for several more years. Naturally, if he could keep reaping those multi million dollar bonanzas every other year he’d keep two CFL teams.

Rogers isn’t a dumb company. They can see the tv rating the CFL pulls. And those ratings are steadily increasing. With an extra team, they’ll be even more. The NFL in Toronto is a lost cause, so Rogers will now slink back tail between legs to get in with the CFL. Taking ownership of the Argos is the first step.

Argos will take over the Dome and the Blue Jays will get a new stadium. Everything owned by Rogers. Argos have no need for a new stadium - - they just need a new marketing plan. They’ll drop a few million to change up some of the seating once the Jays leave and get their new stadium, but the Argos will be in the Dome long term.

You know if you had just said this in the beginning I would have agreed with you.

Although I do disagree with the idea that the Argos will stay at the dome, I could see MLSE buying the Argos and using them to get government “help” for the BMO renovations, but I understand your point and it does make sense from a Rogers/Blue Jays perspective.

[mikem]

@"tangledweb"

@"Area_51"

Argos DO NOT need a new stadium

Will they play in the parking lot upon eviction from the RC then?

There are two other options - One - they play out of that new stadium that is being built only 50 km or so from the West end of the GTA. Hamilton gets another tennant at THF
Two - if they can’t find a home within the next 4 season they have to fold.

[HfxTC]

@"Area_51"

@"bomber_empire"

So again the question has to be asked, why is Rogers booting out the Argos ?

Posturing.

The Argos just sign a new five years awe a d Rogers immediately announces they won’t be renewing it. I don’t know if you e ever been a landlord or have had any dealings with leasehold properties, but when you’ve just freshly signed a new lease the last thing you tell the tenant is “I’m not renewing it after the term”.

Such a weak and transparent bluff by Rogers.

Braley and his legion of apologists and baglicks claims he’s losing $6M a year on the Argos. Do you really think he’s going to be excited about the idea of having to come up with $200M or more on a new stadium? Obviously Braley can pull some strings with his government friends - - we saw that with the unprecedented $9.5M handout for the Grey Cup. But it’s going to be tough to get a fully taxpayer funded stadium.

Renovate BMO? That’s going to cost Braley money too. And he won’t even own the stadium he dumps money into.

Rogers is trying to squeeze Braley for the Argos. Apparently he’s asking a ridiculous price, especially when compared to what he paid Cynamon & Sokolowski - - ZERO. Rogers forces him to either shell out tens of millions on a new place to play or else sell them the Argos and put a few million in his pocket.

Rogers position is further strengthened by this being Braley’s last Grey Cup jackpot for several more years. Naturally, if he could keep reaping those multi million dollar bonanzas every other year he’d keep two CFL teams.

Rogers isn’t a dumb company. They can see the tv rating the CFL pulls. And those ratings are steadily increasing. With an extra team, they’ll be even more. The NFL in Toronto is a lost cause, so Rogers will now slink back tail between legs to get in with the CFL. Taking ownership of the Argos is the first step.

Argos will take over the Dome and the Blue Jays will get a new stadium. Everything owned by Rogers. Argos have no need for a new stadium - - they just need a new marketing plan. They’ll drop a few million to change up some of the seating once the Jays leave and get their new stadium, but the Argos will be in the Dome long term.

You have an active imagination. According to you Cyanamon sold the team to Braley for ZERO instead of Rogers but you think Rogers is now interested in the Argos.

[Earl]

Well if the Argos don’t get a new stadium and continue playing out of the dome, that’s great, makes it so I never have to go to Toronto again for football except for a Grey Cup. As I hate that stadium for football.

I’ll continue saving money not having to go to Toronto! :thup: A new football specific stadium like THF, then I’ll be going now and again from Hamilton and that’s going to cost me money. Or BMO.

Maybe I better watch what I wish for with the Argos. My television does work fine.

It’s going to be a long time before the Jays get a new stadium. They absolutely don’t need it. It’s a far better baseball stadium than football, far better. They will be putting grass in the dome as I trust Steve Milton far, far more than anyone on this board. Not even close.

[Earl]

Also, Richard Griffin from The Star knows what's going on:

Grass at Rogers Centre by 2018 at latest: Griffin

Argos agree to leave Rogers Centre after 2017 season, meaning Blue Jays baseball on grass by opening day 2018.
Finally, an Argo bounce that could possibly benefit both sides.

[i]On Friday, the Blue Jays and Argonauts announced an amicable licence agreement that guarantees the CFL team will be out of the Rogers Centre as tenants by the end of the 2017 season — at the very latest. If, in the meantime, the Argos find ever another suitable stadium during the next four seasons, they can terminate the RC lease at any time. Bonus!

The biggest advantage for the Jays is that with a firm departure date in place for the CFL to leave, it allows plans to proceed for a much-needed installation of a grass playing surface, by opening day 2018. The Jays, in the past, have cited the need to convert to football configuration as the biggest reason for continuing with an artificial surface, one of just two in major-league baseball, along with the Rays at Tropicana Field in St. Petersburg. The tomb-like Trop doesn’t have a retractable roof.

The biggest advantage for the Argos will be that this gives them impetus to search for a new home away from the cavernous Rogers Centre where attendance and interest have been waning. It worked for the Als when they moved from Olympic Stadium to a smaller venue on McGill’s campus.

“The length of the deal allows the Argonauts a reasonable period of time to pursue other stadium options while allowing us sufficient time to plan the logistics of various stadium improvements,? Jays president and CEO Paul Beeston said. “Including the installation of a grass playing surface for baseball at Rogers Centre.?

Recently, talented Blue Jays shortstop Jose Reyes, who has had a playing career filled with leg issues and is under contract for a guaranteed $86 million (U.S.) through 2017, spoke out in thrilled support of a rumoured change to a grass playing surface at the Rogers Centre. It should be noted Reyes’ ankle injury this year happened in Kansas City while running on dirt in a stadium with natural grass. [/i]...

[url=http://www.thestar.com/sports/bluejays/2013/09/20/grass_at_rogers_centre_by_2018_at_latest_griffin.html]http://www.thestar.com/sports/bluejays/ ... iffin.html[/url]

[mikem]

bomber_empire wrote: So again the question has to be asked, why is Rogers booting out the Argos ?

And so again the answer is - they want to put in real grass for a baseball specific stadium. [url=http://www.thestar.com/sports/bluejays/2013/09/20/grass_at_rogers_centre_by_2018_at_latest_griffin.html]http://www.thestar.com/sports/bluejays/ ... iffin.html[/url]

[MulderS]

As someone who has researched this alot, and somewhat connected in the construction community there are a few things wrong with certain posts.

Rogers has stated that they are planning 250m renovation of Rogers Centre. If they were planning on "getting out of RC" why would they renovate Windows Restaurant? & plan major reno of other aspects

They've proven they can grow grass outdoors in the winter with extensive use of grow lights. It's certainly possible, but expensive & unproven in large applications.

If anyone even bothered to read ex place board meeting minutes & strategic plan you'll see "Toronto Argonauts at BMO" mentioned more than once. (for their 2014-2016 vision)

[1991argo]

At the end of all this I can not picture seeing the Argos playing in rc five years from now and there is zero chance of the Argos playing at bmo field.also I can not see any potential new owners to this team because of how little to no interest exist with this club thanks to the current owner and management. Only way I see any hope with this team is if David Braley can get his corrupt buddies from the government to help him get tax payers money to build a new stadium because we all know Braley will not dip in his pocket for a dollar for the Argos. For Braley to steal $10 million from tax payers money is one thing but to get $200 million is another!

[tangledweb]

@"1991argo"

At the end of all this I can not picture seeing the Argos playing in rc five years from now and there is zero chance of the Argos playing at bmo field.also I can not see any potential new owners to this team because of how little to no interest exist with this club thanks to the current owner and management.

Only way I see any hope with this team is if David Braley can get his corrupt buddies from the government to help him get tax payers money to build a new stadium because we all know Braley will not dip in his pocket for a dollar for the Argos.
For Braley to steal $10 million from tax payers money is one thing but to get $200 million is another!

so if Braley and his “corrupt” government buddies are able to secure public funding for a new football stadium, will this be to your satisfaction?

Reason I ask, is that the context of your post seems to infer that using tax payer money for the stadium is tantamount to stealing, and yet are not a proponent of BMO integration.

What exactly would appease you 1991argo? (aside from the firing of Rudge)

[bomber_empire]

Until Braley sells the team or builds a stadium complex, this is all hear say. We should get a clearer picture within the next few months.