Argos Being Isolated In Hogtown

if this thread gets moved and turkybends continued spamming continues, this forum is a joke.

I heard and apparently it is true how Rogers may have the first right of refusal in buying the Agros if David and Howard do put them up for sale, which they claim will not be for quite some time.

man i dont know of any leage who wants to be on basic cable <<<<COLLEGES GAMES AND HIGH SCHOOL GAMES ARE ON PAY CHANNELS IN THE STATES INS SOME MARKETS

I hope you're right about that. Then again with Rogers pursuing the NFL, how would the ARgos and the cFL fit in?

But the obvious thing happening here is the ARgos could be freezed out by MLSE and Rogers. If this partnership ever became reality.

And to the guy who thinks the Raptors make money? VAlue and making money don;t go hand in hand. I think the Raptors being associated with the Leafs is what gives them any value. They get access to the Leafs huge profits, plus MLSE has forced the TV networks to take the Raptors if they want the leafs. But on their own the Raptors ain't worth two cents in Canada. If the Leafs wanted to dump them, they'd be down south in a minute. Which is why these partnerships wiht the powerful Leafs are so beneficial. And why the Argos aren't being let in.

I'm trying to give you a little credit here but you're making it hard....
Read the report again and you'll see that according to Forbes the made an operational profit of $8.4 million. There value is based on the market and team operations. Not associations with other teams... MLSE has not forced anyone to take on the Raptors if they want the Leafs - where did you hear that? MLSE is an umbrella corporation that owns sports franchises and real estate. There is no need for the Leafs to dump someone as the Leafs do not control MLSE it's the other way around. Please get some fact before ranting this stuff......The Argos are not being let in? When did they go up for sale? Who's keeping them out? The Argos made this bed... now they have to work with it.

Raptor TV has less coverage and pentration into the market then Sportsnet or The Score. So I wouldn't call that main stream cable. Being on a speciality channel like Raptor Tv is worse then being on the community access channel. Because people need to pay an extra premium to see you.

This is only worth while if the market will pay for itself. As you see the in this article the mighty NFL can't even get on basic cable with the US's largest cable company.

By the way, TO is mentioned in passing in the article. Almost as an after thought.

About the Raptors.
I read a couple of years ago that if a TV network wants the Leafs, they have to take the RAptors as well.

And also, MLSE forces several thousand Leaf season ticket holders in the high end seats to also buy Raptors season tickets.

And as far as the Raptors making a profit? It must be just recently. Because before the LEafs bought them, they couldn't finish their own arena. The Leafs had to do it.

And nobody was going to step in to save them if that weasel Godfrey hadn't got MLSE involved. The same way Godfrey got Rogers to buy the Blue Jays. Because they would have moved south as well.

Because basketball and baseball are not money makers in this coutnry. And if the Leafs put them up for sale, trust me, nobody in Canada would touch basketball.

And the Argos being isolated is intentional. I mean why wouldn't anybody want a team in a league with national popularity. That averages over 30,000 fans a game. That gets your company national exposure.

That is going to draw back to back sellouts to the Skydome. And that is growing in popularity.

And that costs 1/20th of what it costs to run these American based sports, but gives you back waaay more bang for your buck then any of these American sports. Like, don't you find that strange?

The reason is because these guys don't want the ARgos invovled in this oligopoly. They want to marginalize them to try destroy their fan base and the franchise itself to the point it leaves the city.

Its obvious to me whats happening. When you have a weasel like Paul Godfrey involved, anyting is possible.

You know what I think? I personally see the Blue Jays being sold soon by Rogers. I see Rogers getting into football more and more and more. The RC is anti-baseball friendly and this is widely known, it isn't a baseball facility. Ted Rogers doesn't want to build a new baseball facility and I don't blame him one bit. I don't think they want to see the CFL go under, in fact, the opposite. I know it might look weird going after an NFL team but Godfrey himself said a few weeks ago it was his goal to see football in a better image than it has in Canada. Being in Toronto, he knows football's image there isn't big enough and an NFL team will make it big.

I'm actually starting to like Godfrey, I think the guy has had enough of playing money ball with Steinbrenner and the Red Sox, all this crap. I don't think he wants soccer to get big (TFC has just renewed 16,000 seats for a losing team for next year at the 20,000 BMO Stadium).

My prediction is the Blue Jays are gone in a few years, sold to Americans who will move it south, and the RC is football only, NFL actually at about 63,000 seats and the Argos are at a beefed up BMO. How do I say this, Godfrey, Tanenbaum, Sokolowski have a lot in common if you know what I mean, they don't want to kill each other IMHO.

berezin, the CFL can never really make anyone a lot of money whereas an NFL team can. Do you blame anyone for wanting to go after an NFL team? A team in Canada could have more upsides to downsides for football in general and the CFL also. A Super Bowl in Canada at some point would be great for football and of course the Grey Cup also, can you imagine!! Football gets bigger and baseball gets smaller and we put the reins on this soccer thing. Bring on the NFL and Super Bowl, to me it just helps the CFL and football in general. I also think you'll see more partnership between the CFL and NFL. Would be great.

Berezin get off your conspiracy theories. There is a reason why these guys don't want involvement in Toronto. Until recently, the ownership situation has been a joke. Just as it has in a number of other cities (Ottawa, Calgary, BC come to mind). They don't get involved with something that has been a joke.

To think that the Argos have national popularity is joke. The league yes, the team itself is a joke.

The Skydome is to big for the league, just as BC Place and Commonwealth are. It will take another 10 years of consistent ownership and good product to even come close to selling out Toronto on a regular basis. That won't happen if the league fails with another franchise in Ottawa.

Trust me on this focus on what the Argos are doing and don't worry about what Rogers or Godfrey are doing.

I couldn't agree with you more Mikejth.

The CFL has survived 10 years in Canada. The TV ratings on the weekend were approaching NHL playoff type numbers.

The NFL doesn't do that except for the Superbowl. Basebll is a joke. Basketball doesn't come close. Soccer doesn't do that.

I do agree that I wouldn't be surprised to see Rogers get out of baseball. But then again with this oligopoly that is forming, these second teir franchises like baseball and basketball will be supported by the Leafs and the NFL team. Making them all stronger.

The NFL in Toronto will make money not because its hugely popular. But because they'll get their hands on that big American TV deal. Thats how the Raptors are surviving.

But I wouldn't trust Godfrey. He's out to line his own pockets. He doesn't care about football in this country.

But as far as the CFL needing the NFL to make football succeed in this country? There's going to be sellouts in Vancouver and Toronto next weekend, and for the Grey Cup. Viewership will be in the several millions range.

I think the CFL is doing just fine without the NFL. We don't need the Americans to do everything for us, do we?

Mike J.
The Argos are a joke?
What are you talking about?
If you ask me the RAptors are a joke.
Tiny TV ratings. Papered attendance. Little interest outside of Toronto, and barely any interest in Toronto.
I mean you think 50,000 for back to back weekends at the Skydome makes them a joke?
Come on. You're really Paul Godfrey, right?

The reason the Agros are joke, is ownership and their pre-occupation with the NFL.

Up until recently how many owners have their been in Toronto…I mean lets look at since the John Candy/Wayne Gretzski era.

While the product has been decent the ownership has been poor. They don’t market the team, they care about the league, they are looking for their own angle. For example: the current owners idea that they and the league should go out and buy a NFL team. The NFL team could then be used to ensure the Agros survive. To me that is a joke.

Under the previous salary management system, four team consistantly ignore it. Toronto, Montreal, BC and Edmonton. When Saskatchewan finally said, we will go over and spend big because we can afford to, then the league got serious about a new SMS system.

berezin you aren’t going to win this conspiracy against Argos theory until they start showing some consistancy in these issues.

berezin, I'm not saying the CFL needs the NFL to have a team in Canada to make it succeed here. With no elite team in Canada ie. an NFL team since the NFL is the elite football league afterall, football in the largest market in Canada will continue to be ok but crimp along with owners barely breaking even because I believe there is no big TV money in the CFL because the audience is rather limited to Canada, obviously. But with an NFL team along with a CFL team in Toronto, and then maybe no Blue Jays, you have football taking up the majority of the field sports in Toronto, besides soccer, and that is just good for football in general. And then if there are co-marketing schemes involved ie. an Argo ticket gets you a discount on an NFL ticket and vica versa, or whatever.

You are right, there is a demand for CFL and Argo football in Toronto but as Mike says, they aren't going to be filling the RC for regular season games, far, far from it. We need more football in Toronto, this would be good for everyone potentially IMHO. Just my opinion though have to admit.

Seems to me that ANY owner who can snck it up and hang in there year after year in a gate-driven league shouldn't be called a joke. If anything we should thank them for just being there and being huge football fans who are willing to put their money out there for little or no return. Sure some could use a few ideas on creative and inexpensive marketing. but most of them already do their best with that while working with extremely limited budgets.

This is why an enforced salary cap is so important to this league, and why it's doubly important for the media to pitch in and help market it by providing regular, fair coverage.

So if you're going to call anyone a joke, direct it at those media types who aren't fair, or who provide disproportionate coverage to sports that have much smaller fan support.

I'll never understand why a Canadian company like Rogers continues to blow their brains out on baseball, when they can get more bang for their buck with a CFL team?

And I think its embarassing how we need Americans to come up here to buy our sports franchises, when theres Canadians who could do it.

And Mike J.
Who knows what really went on with the Argos and buying the NFL? I heard it was discussed at a CFL meeting for a few minutes then dropped. But of course the media turns this mountain into a mole hill.

But the Argos ownership must be doing something right. Because while the media has been praying for this team to fold, the ARgos are on the rebound.

And one last thing. You read the Raptors made 8.4 million last year? I just heard Bill Watters on Leafs Lunch say the Leafs made a profit of 80 million, while the rest, which includes the Raptors, Marlies, FC and the two tv stations made a whole 3 million combined.

I don't know berezin if the media has been praying for the Argos to fold, maybe more like it's hard for some in hogtown to get excited about a Canadian only product.

But anyways, let's look on the bright side here, the CFL hasn't folded like some said it would. So the CFL has basically still held football as a summer spectator sport here in Canada. That is good. MLB only has one team in Canada and while a lot of people in southern Ont do go to Jays' games and some in the States, football still rules as Canada's summer sport here, which to me is perfect. The Expos leaving was very detrimental to baseball in Quebec. Besides hockey, football is huge there. Kids might play a lot of baseball but no MLB team there. You have the Als of course and football in university there is huge.

Baseball and the Jays are in trouble here I think unless they get a new stadium built. And who is going to build one there? I don't think anyone. If MLB revenued shared like the NFL, it would be better, but they don't. The NFL model, while not perfect, is way better than MLB's model. I don't want to go to baseball games at the RC, it looks anti-baseball to me.

What I'm saying is I feel a shift in Rogers from baseball to football, they are now even carrying NFL games, which is good! And I think a bit of a sign of changing times.

Earl its obvious baseball is in trouble. Look around the country and teams have died left and right. And Rogers is breaking the bank to field a winner, yet attendance has pretty well levelled out.

But like I say. This monopolizing of the sports market if these teams get together could hurt the Argos. And also deny them the benefits these other teams might get.

I hope I'm wrong, but I know I wouldn't want to be in a business where my competitors are all working together while I'm left to fend for myself. In fact thats illegal!