Argo owners not selling and want to play at BMO

From the Globe and Mail.

An Argo-Cat fan

What Dumb Movie it only seats 20,000 you have 26,000 Fans
Your going push 6,000 out the door right Not smart at all.
Plus The field is too Small .. I say the CFL Says no to BMO.

There's more value to 26,000 clamouring over 20,000 than 26,000 freebeeing their way to a game in at 52,000 seat stadium. Its not good for the consumer but its good for the bottom line and the in stadium atmosphere.

Ask TFC or the Montreal Alouettes or the thousands on the respective waiting lists for tickets.

Its very smart to move into a small venue. Its not smart to move into a venue that doesn't accommodate your sport.

Dumb movie? They're making a film about this? haha

Anyway.. this will screw Argo fans just like Al fans. Because there are only 20,000 seats it will raise the cost of tickets by at least 50% and keep a bunch of fans out of games. Horrible idea. Even the worst Argo crowds are 6-10 thousand bigger than BMO can hold.

To me a 20,000 seat stadium in pro football is very bush league.

I tend to agree with you here. While it's admirable that they want to commit to the team and the CFl and do not want to leave on a down note, I do not like the idea of fitting the CFL game into an inappropriate stadium. My view is....the field SHOULD be a certain size including endzones and that's it. If we start to adjust our game to fit in somewhere then where do we draw the line? What happens next time....decide to move the goalposts? Maybe shorten the field?? narrow the field??

It's very unfortunate that those who built BMO refused to build it with the CFL as a contingency plan as it only makes sense to have several tenants sharing the costs.

Somehow I don't feel screwed.

I waited a bout 4 years to get my season tix, and the only way I got them was by taking two seats that were in front of each other rather than side by side. I was damned happy to get them, the year after I got side by side.....

The cost difference isnt all that big, I you compare to IWS, I would be siiting in Box I or J, on the 40 about 20 rows up) so I would be platinum or gold. Im paying about 750.00 per ticket which is just about what Hamilton Fans etc.

Maybe a 20K seat stadium is bush, but I'll tell you that if it wasn't for that bush stadium, CFL football would be dead in Montreal...Unless there are 40,000 fans in the stadium, the big O is by far the worst place to see a football game in the world. Its damp, and dark and the sightlines are horrible. The rogers cenre isn't much better.

The difference between Molson and BMO is the location. Unless my sense of direction is off, BMO isnt even close to the downtown core, especially the entertainment district. (maybe Im wrong but Im not from TO),

As many may remind you, Molson is a 15 minute downhill walk to the best eating, drinking and otherwise misbehaving area in Canada, Crescent Bishop and Ste Catherine St.

Even with the location issues, BMO might be the answer to saving CFL football in TO..

Getting a better team in there wouldn't hurt either

I think this would be a great move. From what I understand, BMO is already looking at some expansion. I heard they were thinking of adding another tier to the one side -- to keep up, yet manage, the demand for soccer tickets. That means, I'm sure, that turning BMO into a 28 - 30k seat stadium wouldn't take a great deal of cost.

Fitting the field in there (...which could me blasting the wall out at the one end and altering the seating) would be the more difficult task. All of it, however, would be far less expensive then trying fund yet another stadium. Good on these guys for trying.

While the Argos are said to pay no rent, think of the expenses for playing in Skydome, BMO would be a much more cost effective choice, I imagine that even paying rent to BMO as well as some expenses would still be cheaper for the Argos than remaining at the Skydome.

Lower overhead means Ticket prices will not increase, the owners can offer more incentives to attend games (better half-time shows, better experiences etc)

Skydome isn't suited for a CFL team, I had always assumed it was a stop-gap measure until a suitable longterm option became available, its sad that TFC fans are whiners and don't for some reason or another want to share thier facilities with a CFL team.

Sharing facilities is part of sports, many many teams do it...this isn't Europe where Soccer is the only sport that matters..

Count me in for a big "NO" for this move. I have seen CFL football being played on shortened fields before (Winnipeg GC, Memphis, and every game after BC Place was built. FYI - the endzones were shortened by 5 yards each so they could fit into the stadium). Yes, Toronto is a big media and economical centre for Canada. That does not give them the right to go messing about with CFL field sizes. If the current owners want a smaller field, I suggest they build one themselves, have it hold about 25k seats, make it multi-purpose, close to public transit and entertainment, and give up on buying the Coyotes.

Maybe its about time that Hamilton and Toronto get together before they build this new Pan Am stadium and talk about "sharing" If the Jets and Giants can do it, why not Argos and Ticats. Good opportunity to have a stadium with equal access on the 403/QEW/GO line, 25 to 30,000. Could save both teams a lot of money.

I was going to ignore his post... but I can't.... this is the STUPIDEST idea ever put out there, if they can survive in their own digs, move them to a city who WILL support them, IMO Toronto not having a franchise does not spell the end of the CFL...bringing it down to 7 teams could hurt it, but there are cities east of us who would DIE to get a franchise. BMO or Rogers Centre one way or the other I don't care.. sharing a stadium with the blue team,

well I need pepto bismol now!!

I'm with mikem on this. A stadium specifically designed to house two CFL tenants and located somewhere like Burlington is definitely worth exploring.

As for moving the Argos to a city that will support them, feel free to suggest cities that meet that criterion and have a CFL-sized stadium. Ottawa has the stadium but had two failed franchises in the past 13 years. Football can still succeed there but it will have to be a newly born Rough Riders, not a transplanted Argos. There ain't any CFL-calibre stadiums anywhere else and no one is building or funding them -- other than the governments' commitment to the Pan-Am Stadium in the GTA.

As for the idea that Toronto going down the tubes won't spell the end of the CFL -- that may be true because the strength of the league is in the west, but don't kid yourself -- it would spell the end of the Tiger-Cats in short order. I'm sure lots of people will disagree but both franchises have a tenuous enough hold on their markets that they definitely need each other.

Good idea. You have to keep in mind, while yes the Roger's Center does seat more the overhead and cost to rent and operate that facility is HUGE. BMO can be easily expanded, and getting away from games where the baseball base dirt is still on the field would be welcome. That and I have a preference for grass fields, makes for more fumbles during the rain and exciting and grittier football.

Although BMO is a badly built stadium its actually not bad for football. I'm not sure how they overcome the field length but since its an all temporary facility disassembling one end zone bleacher section and moving it or abandoning it could be that hard. Build a second deck on one side and a way you go. It would rival IWS for sight lines and even if it is all temporary bleachers it would be better than Rogers or the abortion that the Pan Ams will bring us

I think as others have mentioned maybe it's all just a ploy to get a better deal from Rogers for the RC, although they do have an excellent deal now. I'd love to go to an Argos game at BMO since the Ex site is hallowed real football grounds to me with all the history of the Argos there. But MLSE controls the city of Toronto and they won't let it happen because they are afraid the whiny TFC fans will revolt and cancel their seasons tickets.

I'm surprised this hasn't really been fleshed out more, but who can blame then wanting to emulate Montreals situation?

Fact - Montreal is doing better in every facet of their franchise.
Fact - This started by moving into Percival
Fact - Every game has been sold out (97 straight?) at 20202 per game. Play off games get 38k - 54k I believe right?
Fact - Montreal is now expanding for the 2010 season, it remains to be seen, but I'm going out on a limb to suggest they will continue that sellout streak although with 25k now.

Tell me, if C&S can swing this, why would they not want to? Why do they want to continue to paper the house to get 26k in the stands and STILL have a boring atmosphere (for the most part).

If they can SOMEHOW get a 3-5 year deal with the city(THEY control BMO, not MLSE) then all the sudden the argos can have a waiting list for seasons tickets. Use that 3-5 years to get a football stadium that has 25k (probably 30-35k is more realistic for T.O. right?) and they will be far better off Ithink.

I really don't know why people have to defend the Montreal way of doing things, quite simply it works.

I realize there are some, usually Hamilton, folks who hate the idea of higher demand(thus tickets prices) as it keeps out low income people. Quite honestly, the league does not grow if they cater to those with low income.

Pretty much took the words out of my mouth.

Again...I don't mind a move to BMO field IF and only IF they expand it to allow the REGULATION sized field. And as for the Cats and Argos sharing a stadium somewhere in between...sorry Yes it works for the Giants and the Jets but remember.....THEY'RE THE SAME FRIGGIN CITY!!! Here....we're talking two completely separate cities. Does San Francisco and San Jose share a stadium? I doubt it.

I'm on board with sharing a stadium as well to be honest. That being said, a Toronto city official Joe Pantolone, mentioned this in the Sun:

“We’re prepared to get married, but we need a proper proposal. Absolutely (an Argos move to BMO Field), would be good for Exhibition Place, the city, and the CFL.?

So maybe I'm wrong in that the city of Toronto isn't as afraid of MLSE and the TFC Red Patch Whiners afterall. A regulation sized field isn't important to me, if baseball can have different dimensions and hockey as well in the past (man I miss the Boston Garden), why not football? do know New Jersey and New York are two different places...right?

The Giants have been playing in the Meadowlands for years. The New York Jets moved into Giants stadium a few years ago.