argo fan wants the argos to lose sunday??

im talkin to a friend of mine, who happens to be an argo fan.

we were talkin about the game this sunday ( i told him im going and asked if he was too ), and he said he is very torn.
while he is an argo fan, he feels an argo win this sunday is counter-productive.

if the argos somehow win, they will be forced to keep lemon as their starter for next season. he doesnt think the argos will be lucky enough to carry lemon to a playoff game again, and they will fall to 3-15.

if the argos lose, he can take solace in the big improvement they have made this season, and feels the argos would then cut lemon or demote him to a backup and bring in someone more qualified...who that would be is for another thread.

this is just me now, but a ticat loss would be a huge blow for the team. after going 5-13, 4-14 and such for a few years, to finally get to 9-9 and ousted in the first round last year was a huge step...but to go 9-9 and NOT make it to the division finals this year, has to be seen as a major set-back to a fanbase whose patience has run out.

after weighing both these thoughts, i think im throwing my support behind the tabbies this sunday.

but its very interesting to me, to hear an argo fan WANTING his arch-nemesis tiger-cats to rip his team apart in a playoff game.. :expressionless:

Maybe the Argo fans that want to throw Lemon under the bus, havn't given him a chance to gain some experience. I remember back when the CFL expanded in the US and seeing the quarterback Los Vagas Posse had. He was bad and my thoughts were this guy will never last in the CFL. I think his name was Anthony Calvillo.

i dunno about 'not giving him a chance'.

this isnt some rookie kid straight out of college.
this is a former NFL player. he is not new to pro-football.

the amount of INTs thrown and fumbles he has given up are not the result of him not being used to the CFL. they are due to him not being a pro-level player.

i think, after an 18 game season, he's had his 'chance'.
after 18 games, you'd expect to see progress. there has not been progress with lemon's game.
he is as bad now, after 18 games, as he was after 1.

I think giving Lemon another season or two.. and some more reliable receivers to compliment Copeland, the Argos can be a force. How many guys have come up here, and the "expert" thinking that they are going tear up this league? It just shows that the CFL is a different game. I believe that given some time, Lemon will improve.

It does not matter what happens the rest of the playoffs according to Chris Schultz.
I just met up with him while he was at the Jack Astors in Scarborough and he said for sure that lemon will not be back.
I asked for his source and although he would not budge, Schultzie said it was a sure thing.
I am also hoping he will not be back.

That sure is NOT the way to motivate a player going into a playoff game, for management or the coaches to leak to the media that is does not matter what happens the player is gone. IMO Lemons trade value would be a lot higher if the Argos go to the Finals or go to the Cup. I would like to see Lemons - Ricky Ray trade

It's ridiculous to not want your team to win. It's tough to win in the playoffs and when your team does, just enjoy it. Anything can happen in the CFL. If there is someone out there who is better than Lemon, the Argos will give him a shot next year. Lemon's job won't be guaranteed with one playoff win. I would never trade Ricky Ray for Cleo Lemon, there's no way Tillman would either.

You, and Schultz if you really met up with him, are wrong.

Tillman's trade for Ray will not be a one player for one player trade so it will not be Lemon for Ray. It will be some multi-player trade. Tillman want to make a BIG splash so everyone is talking about him and the BIG trade

you sound like a leaf fan making outrageous trade scenarios.

thats never going to happen.
why would the eskies make that trade?

not really.
fans root against thier team in hockey all the time, when the best their team can hope for is an 8th place finish, and beaten in the 1st playoff round..but finishing last means the first overall draft pick...which is better in the long-term?

I"d agree with you sambo, if Lemon was some 21 year old kid out of some US college.

But he's not.

He's a 31 year old journeyman QB from the nfl.

What you see is what you get.

He's not going to "develop" or "improve". . . he is what he is, and it's not good enough for the cfl, in my opinion.

Is it normal if I want them to lose too? :wink:

What?

Correct me if I am wrong, but did the Argos not give him fully 18 games out of a possible 18 games as the starter? What more do you want?

It's the playoffs, u have to support your team. With fans like that Argo, who needs enema's. Yes "enema's". Leo will be judged on the entire season, not that he wins a playoff game. Football is not hockey, so comparing the two ain't quite apples to apples. I must say I was not overly impressed but he didn't have a great set of receivers either. I think he's gone or a backup next year.

Riderfan I suspect you are 100% correct on both counts. Lousy receiving corps to work with, and he’s probably gone or a backup next year.

If your an Argos fan and you're watching an Argos game, there's only one team you should be cheering for, regardless if it's a pre-season game, a regular season game or a playoff game; the Argos.

Simple as that. :slight_smile:

:thup: :thup:

Hmmm, now I'm thinking I want to see Lemon do really well on Sunday and prove the critics wrong, with of course still a TigerCat win. For some reason I like Lemon and I can't put my finger on it, strange. But agree finding a younger player like a Durant or Lulay would be preferable for sure.

I’ll be honest, Lemon does need a lot of work, however he seems to be developing, so I wouldn’t cut him quite yet. Honestly, he should be bumped down to the second string and learn under a more experienced QB. The problem is though, experienced QBs are very hard to come by. Lets take a look at the QB situation around the league.

Montreal - Calvillo is about to retire, and McPhearson is certainly the heir apparent without question. Nothing is happening on this front.

Hamilton - Kevin Glenn isn’t going anywhere, he’s had amazing season although one also must give credit to one of the best receiving corps in the league with Bruce, Stala, Mann, McDaniel and the rising Bauman. Most of the Ti-Cat fan-base wants to wash their hands of Quinton Porter, so I don’t think you guys will want him.

Winnipeg - Currently in Quarterback purgatory but maybe getting Buck Pierce to mentor Lemon isn’t a bad idea, albeit dangerous with how injury prone he is. Jyles is likely going to be the starter next year, so if you are gonna cut Cleo, I suspect this would be the team to trade him to, although I wouldn’t.

Edmonton - Ricky Ray might be cut loose, so he’d be a good pick as the Esks have three solid albeit young backups in Zabransky, Maas and Joeseph. Although you are going to have to give up some good guys on defence to snag Ray, and who knows how the new coach is going to gauge their offence.

Saskatchewan - Durant is the linchpin of Saskatchewan’s offence, and as such isn’t getting moved anywhere unless a better replacement is found. I wouldn’t say he’s exceptional, as he has one of the best receiving corps in the league. If you dispute that, look how well Saskatchewan has done now that Rob Bagg and Luca Congi are out with injuries. Fantuz and Getzlaf are well and good, but they can’t carry the offence. I haven’t heard anything from their backups.

Calgary - The Stamps aren’t likely to trade Burris unless they get a star like Owens or Boyd, so it’s not going to happen. They also have young guys in the backup spots who while more experienced then lemon, can’t carry the team.

BC - Taking on Casey Printers is rolling the dice, although it’s certainly to really tick off us in Hamilton. Jarious Jackson and Travis Lulay though both have potential, so a trade may be in order. Only problem is how does it make Cohon and the league look if Braley trades a solid QB to the Argos. It’s delicate territory.

So pretty much, I’d be looking to talk to Winnipeg or Edmonton and see what they have to say. That or bringing up a guy from the NFL who might have had some decent play time. Otherwise, you’re sticking with Cleo for the long run, and he’s going to take at least 2 or 3 years to get good, if he doesn’t pull a Porter on you.

Well, one of three things are going to happen this Sunday.

1 - The Argos try to run with Boyd and Owens as they have all season and get stopped at every turn. The Ti-Cat defence is incredibly good at stopping the run, and we've smothered this strategy the entire season. Jamal Johnson is perfectly willing shadow and bang around all day with Boyd.

2 - The Argos try to pass with Cleo to Owens and Watt and get shutdown. The problem with the Argos passing game is Cleo is too green and there just isn't enough talent in the receiving corps to make up for this shortfall. You might be able to get away with this if you had an O-Line like Montreal's, but the Argos just don't have that. Cleo is too green, as he keeps or attempts passes that should be tossed away when he gets pressured, and there just isn't enough talented receivers to give Cleo enough options.

  1. The Argos special teams and defence capitalizes on several big plays and wins the game. Owens is a returning monster and the Argos defence is good enough to keep Kevin Glenn in check if we can't establish a run game. I love Cobb, but if he starts dancing at the line, and the O-line does make him some holes, you will see some turnovers happen, specifically interceptions. From there the Argos defence needs to hold true, which is a steep task as the Argos offence isn't well know for keeping possession of the ball.

All in all, it's going to be a low scoring game. Toronto's defence is incredibly strong, and is able to capitalize on any inconsistency in our offence and conversely our front 7 are monsters at stopping the run and threatening the quarterback, which is going to offset Boyd and Lemon's passing abilities and our occasionally suspect deep ball coverage. I suspect this game will be won by whichever defence forces the most turnovers, or if the Ti-Cats get their offence running for the entire ballgame. I'm going to predict Ti-Cats 28 Argos 18.