I agree and add that all of Joe's punts were in outdoor stadiums. With the criteria for the TSN picks including 3 special teams spots, I was quite surprised to see Ozzie named for 2 of them.
The CFL wants to tout their Canadian players regardless if their self-centered asses or someone who was caught using performance enhancing drugs. Joe Zuger was a warrior and their may be a case of Canadian vs American. You have to wonder what the optics are and who is pressured to vote a certain way. Zuger has payed his dues and is more than worthy of this award.
Maybe it is just a case of Joe following in the footsteps of Bernie Faloney, and never being considered as filling his shoes. Plus, he was competing with Frank Cosentino, the local boy.
I guess maybe Joe was the Jeremiah Masoli of his time? Under appreciated, despite doing the job, and showing consistency, with occasional flashes.
I hope he is recognized while he is still able to appreciate it.
I put it down to pure laziness by TSN. I imagine the conversation going something like:
#1 Okay who do we choose for kicker, punter and returner?
#2 Well all Cat fans love Ozzy why not him for the first two and then Speedy for returner? Again all Cat fans love him, and we couldn't choose him for receiver.
#3 Sounds good. All in favour?
#1, #2, #3 Aye.
All these young reporters on these so called sports stations don't have a
clue what they are talking about !!
Joe Zuger was the best punter ever in the CFL especially when kicking into the wind !!
Nobody came even close to Joe in that department, not to even mention his quick kick ability. A master at that feat, with out a doubt.
With all due respect to Dave Mann, Joe was the master all time punter in the CFL !!
Maybe they are looking at different styles. Joe punted in the era of booming it long and low. Quick kicks burnish his memory. Ozzie kicked in the era of hang time and placement. SO hard to compare.
Maybe you are too kind.
This may be a crazy thought, but my guess is that the TSN voters decided that Ozzy's 89,000 punting yards were more impressive than Zuger's 49,000 yards, and that in their minds, that outweighed punting average.
All crazy thoughts welcome 'round here.
No argument there , Tipper . The wise choice would have been Oz for kicking and Joe Zuger for punter . An all time Cat team without Hal Patterson is absurd along with Vince Scott and Pete Neumann as OLinemen . To top off the poor research/spell check , the 13 year TiCat with 5 Grey Cup appearances and 3 Grey Cup rings is Bob Krouse , not John .
End of rant .
Pat Lynch (the old guy)
Two words: Different. Eras.
You're right DCF, but the whole point of the exercise on the "all-time" greats was different eras. I think the biggest gripes revolve around what appears to be sloppy research and reporting, like mixing up positions between offence and defence, nationalities, and getting names incorrect.
I can perhaps see the TSN rationale in wanting to put more popular or better known 'greats' on the team, but having too many at a given position, just slotted them elsewhere. But that is not the point of selecting a team is it? If you just wanted to name the top 24 or 27 or 30 or whatever players, then you can have as many at any given position as you want. But if you are selecting a team, then players should be selected to the position they played, and not slotted into another guy's spot, IMO.
I don't have a problem with the eras . I've been a fan since 1953 , so I've seen a lot of TiCat greats . My view is that if you're a journalist , then do your job ! Get the facts right .
Get the names right . Get the positions right .
If you think Vince Scott or Pete Neumann deserve to be on the team, then put them where they belong . They both played defence and if you did your research as a journalist you'd know this .
Pat Lynch (the aged one)
I wasn't trying to stir things up, I didn't quote the appropriate part when I was referring to different eras. Of course "journalists" should actually do their research, but with the lack of proper Editorial staff (the ones who check things like "facts" and "dates" and "spelling and grammar") mistakes get made.
I agree that they should be in the proper positions. However, the SAM position has evolved over the past 20 years to be more a specialist position akin to a Strong Safety - having to defend slotbacks AND running backs.
That position, with those needed skills, simply didn't exist for most of the CFL history.
I am also a firm believer that there are VERY few athletes from the past who would have been able to compete while in their prime today. Garney is at the top of the list - and it may end with him. Today's professional athlete is so highly tuned for their sport that it's a year-round process. You can't tell me that an OL from the 50's could play today. They would be giving up at least 80lbs compared to today's OL players.
I meant to be comparing Ozzy to Zuger. The game had changed by the time Ozzy started. As someone already pointed out, while Zuger had the distance/punt, there was no blocking on returns, so long and low deep punts; AS WELL AS PUNTING FOR A ROUGE; was key. By Ozzy's time, precise positional punting with a long hang-time was, and still is, optimal. The same for place-kicking. IIRC, Ozzy was (one of) the first so-called "soccer style" kicker in football. That one innovation completely changed the kicking game with better distance and accuracy.
Banks may have been able to play in the past, but it was a tougher game back then. The man has more toughness than a man his size deserves, but he would be pummelled every step of his receiving routes. I don't think he'd be very effective in the 4th quarters of games, if he lasted that long.
I would like to believe that Ang could continue to play DT, but I think he would be a backup on today's team. Again, the position has evolved, and it takes a guy like Ted Laurent to dominate that position these days.
This, as always, has turned into an interesting discussion!
Just to let you know DCF, "soccer style" place-kicking started in the mid-sixties. The earliest I remember seeing it (because it was weird) was when Gogolak kicked that way for the New York Giants. Good 'ole Ian Sunter kicked the Grey Cup winning field goal "soccer style" in 1972.
Jan Stenerud , and the Gogolak Brothers were kicking back in the mid 1960s . They were soccer - style kickers . Ian Sunter was the same for the Cats in 1972 . Ozzie was a clutch kicker for the Cats for 17 years starting in 1986 with his Grey Cup debut .
I saw his last kick at Ivor Wynn in a pre-game warmup . It looked like a hip flexor injury . I believe he was 39 years old when he had to quit . I'm sure Dave Ritchie remembers the Wizard of Oz .
Pat Lynch (the old guy)
Joe Zuger could kick into Saskatchewan gales and achieve good yardage unlike a lot of kickers in the CFL Hall of Fame....
Enjoyed his quick kicks as well on second downs sometimes ,although I would shake my head and wonder who made that call , the coach of course in the days of impressively strong defences in Hamilton.
I lived on West 4th...went to school with Zeno Karc's ( sp) son for the time he was here.
Smack that Ivor Wynn turf !!
Paul Osbaldistin went to school.with my son in Edmonton for years.
Albeit it was the Ticat Ozzie's much younger cousin.