Addressing needs on Offence

In combination with a need for improved play at the quarterback position the Argos have a real need for improved play from recievers.

The signing of copeland is good but he is aging and some younger recievers would be good.

Do the argos have the use of Spencer Watt again next season?

If so I believe he should be played more, like he was in last years playoffs, as he has shown a lot of potential.

The Argo's also need to market their future players better. Like QB's, why don't the Argos send out a email to their fans on the QB's playing in NCAA that could make the jump to the Argo's, so fans would watch and follow player development, and have a rooting interest

I think you're right on there Marc, improved play from the QB and receiver positions is the key for Toronto going forward, those appear to me to have been their two biggest problems last season. Running game good to very good, offensive line good, defence good, special teams terrific. . . but the quarterbacking and the receiving corps left much to be desired.

When Lemon is even 65% the quarterback of Burris and the Argos have even only 50% of the receivers of the Stamps as they do not now, this will be one exciting system offence to watch I say.

If you want to see the potential future of such an offence but only better with a better offensive line and with Boyd, the 2010 Stamps would provide the closest example.

Both these offences as I broke down in other threads including with video (i.e. "throw-back tight end, various Lemon threads, etc") use a whole lot out of play action with bunch sets for the receivers as well as often the screen pass.

Both feature on a dominant basis either immediate handoffs or quick passes out of the centre of the pocket akin to what we know as the West Coast offence down here in American football.

A major difference however is that up there this type of offence is run out of the shotgun in Canadian football instead of usually from a drop-back throw or handoff/pitch of 1 to 3 steps from under center down here in the NFL or in much of the Pac 10 in NCAA football.

See the Seattle Seahawks, San Francisco 49ers, and to some degree Philadelphia Eagles for other examples of a similar offence though in a different league.

Even ball control teams like the NY Jets and the Pittsburgh Steelers used some of these sets in the playoffs.

This is my favourite type of offence to watch too as you can probably tell.

We need a QB, the most important position on any football team.
The status quo will simply not do.
If the stories or rumours hold any truth, although I doubt it, of having Tate or McPherson being available let's go after either.

On Tate yes on McPherson no I say, but at least I agree with you in part here for once ArgoT.

IMHO Tate is the best backup in the CFL and otherwise is the known heir-apparent to Burris, so dream on I say because the Stamps are not foolish. In fact Tate is so good he could start on two other teams that come to mind for that matter.

Neither one of those backup QBs will come cheap should it happen anyway, and for the offence Barker wants to run better I sure would not employ McPherson over Lemon.

Get at least two new above average receivers and watch how much better the Argos' offence will be.

Here are some various video clips with comments as posted in many other threads to make more vividly the point on where the improvement on offence with the Argos would when a system QB like Lemon is surrounded by far better receivers as well as can keep his head to not commit avoidable turnovers:

Jim Barker seems to be using the tight end for certain plays and more successfully than any other coach in the CFL. These two throwback plays did wonders:

3:40 -- Here is it not like I did not warn the Eskies -- double tight-end screen pass to Boyd at LOS T42 to set up the mismatch against TJ Hill with hardly a chance against Boyd. First down Argos. Most credit here goes to Barker well over Hall's head for this great call.

4:13 -- Key converted 3rd and 2 on the winning drive off the double-tight set.

Consider this familar-looking formation to any serious CFL fan as evidenced in this NFL game:

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At 2:12 check out the formation and execution of the screen pass with the bunch receiver formation off tackle left instead of a tight end, and it should remind you of such a play as you had seen regularly in the last season from the Stamps, Argos, and/or Riders for the most part. The formation works largely as well only if the teams have deep threats as do in fact the Packers more than one with an excellent receiving corps just as they have in Calgary and in Saskatchewan.


From the Grey Cup as the Argos are equipped to run but would be better with receivers who genuinely can stretch and spread the field:

Check out starting at 2:37 the finest execution of a screen pass by the Riders that I ever remember in any league. The pass went from Durant to Koch for big yards.

Stop the tape at 2:39 and notice the following:

  1. All five interior lineman downfield ready to block
  2. Two receivers, one on each side, also in line ready to block
  3. #20 Wes Cates providing not only a second option for the play to the right of Durant that probably would have netted a similar result, but also providing a distraction or freezing the entire front seven of the Al's defence!

McPherson, just had a tryout with Jacksonville, so he will either be NFL bound (but more then likely not, since he sued the NFL and won over his knee injury, due to a mascot running him over on the sidelines during an NFL game, he has been blackballed by most of the GM's in the NFL) or the Als will sign him long term his season. Check out who else the Als signed at QB just now. Why can this team find good young QB's and we (Argos) can't. We should be scouting the NCAA and following 4 or 5 Division 1 QB's, so the fans can follow their career and get excited about a future QB signing, but that won't happen, wishful thinking, we will just go out and get the next NFL castoff, instead of developing our own

Interesting points otherwise by ArgosCFL to contrast the Al's from most CFL teams including the Argos, though with the shortage of QBs in the NFL already and the lure of even NFL 3rd QB money, too many otherwise better prospects for Canadian football are steered where they are not likely to feature much less shine. This is particularly true of NCAA QBs in spread offences nowadays in my opinion.

One has to wonder though what would happen to many a marginal NFL QB prospect such as McPherson lurking to be an undrafted free agent QB with the prospect of even a delayed NFL season as is looming. You would think perhaps a few more of these free agents and rookies would take the time to try something out in the CFL for sake of at least invaluable experience for awhile as they would need for the NFL anyway right? It's probably not the case as the money would have it even then, but one can only hope. :expressionless:

Take for example interestingly, the top two NFL QB draft prospects this season who fit well only into a spread offence run largely out of the shotgun: Blaine Gabbert and Cam Newton. Both would be great to be groomed for the CFL game with their base skill sets, but that is not going to happen given the massive financial draw and the NFL QB shortage anyway. Both QBs also have little or no experience taking snaps under centre mind you!

Gabbert I think will go to San Francisco to run its West Coast offence as Arizona will probably pass on him to continue to try to groom their QB roster for their spread offence with also two young QBs already. If he goes anywhere else to try to be converted into a pro-set or ball control QB, well good luck once again with that wasteful multi-million dollar experiment I say.

The only top QB who comes to mind who succeeded in making such a conversion from a spread offence in NCAA ball to taking snaps under centre is none other than Drew Brees out of Purdue, and that's only after a miracle recovery from a shoulder injury. Let's keep in mind all the same that his core strengths continue in mostly spread sets as well. Josh Freeman here in Tampa Bay is well on his way to greater improvement coming out of a spread offence at Kansas State too.

Newton is a poison pill pick who is only being hyped akin to overpaid and overhyped QBs Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Matt Leinart, Brady Quinn, and Jimmy Clausen in years past for sake of the media interest in hyping the big schools for sake of their college football interests. Without the NFL, of course no one but folks in the South and some alumni give a rip about college football any more you see and even then far less about for its coverage on TV.

And so this money train rolls on for now as both leagues remain short more of the truly better QB prospects on the right teams ...

so we signed a runningback, which to me seems like the thing we most did not need on offence.

I hope we can pick up at least one good receiver in free agency.

looking over the three guys we signed...

DE Michael Hancock, RB Chad Kackert and CB Dee Webb

I wonder how much burn they will get if any.
I don't know anything about them but Kackert sounds promising.

Simple, we need a real QB.
Without it and if the status quo applies this year will be a very long one.

Playoffs Eastern Division Final again is your worst case now I say with Lemon with his actual head intact.

Beating Montreal in a field position battle with solid special teams play is the rather miraculous task at hand.

And for the "upteenth" time, no the Argos will not get a great passing quarterback and will have to make do with a solid system guy despite the seemingly innate desire to find another great high yardage passer. :roll:

It seems most of the Argos fans, as well as fans of most teams who don't have such a passer, want this type of QB yet no one is ever brought up who is plausibly attainable AND still has upside in his career at QB. :expressionless:

so you are arguing that Lemon can be a successful QB for the team?
I guess we'll see.
I'd rather the Argo's didn't sign an aging injury prone QB like Jackson, so I don't know.
If they sign Campbell and he has a resurgence maybe the offence can be passable.
Having no receivers in the top 20 in the league for an 8 team league is pretty sad.

Right we've beaten that drum to no end on the Argos need for better receivers, and I would say that's TWO who are at least as good as Copeland but younger for that matter.

And yes Lemon can be successful with skipping the dumb CFL rookie mistakes AND having at least two more better options to whom to throw in that offence.

Without a doubt I would take Jarius Jackson and or Chris Leak, which would be a 100% improvement over the current cast.

uh would not want Leak, and Jackson is getting kind of old.
Its a shame there aren't any actual QB's with potential around.

If that's the case you have to look no further than in our back yard.
QB's with no potential.

Lemon, Brannagan and Bell all have more potential than Jackson.

Not with me.
Brannagan is the only one I would keep for development purpose as a third stringer.