Addition By Subtraction For Toronto

Aside from the QB disaster, the biggest weakness for the 2011 Argos was the secondary. Last year`s coverage scheme was to give opposing receivers a 7 to 10yd cushion and make teams drive the length of the field for a score rather than getting beat deep for a quick strike. The results - - or lack thereof - - were completely predictable. Opponents controlled the clock with high percentage passes. Add in the terrible tackling attempts from LBs and DBs and you can understand why 2011 was a complete train wreck in Toronto.

Argos have now cleaned out 60% of the deadwood from last years secondary. Looking forward to seeing Parker & Shell perform in BC. Ill stand by my assessment from last year that Parker is useless in anything other than the softest of zone coverage schemes. No surprise that Parker went scrambling out to BC to try and hide in Stubler`s scheme after Toronto said thanks but no thanks to his return .

After his demotion from Defensive Coordinator, Orlondo Steinhauer has gone slithering back to being the DB coach. I wondered last year if Steinhauer was running that scheme to protect his old buddies Parker, Pile and Younger from being embarassed in man coverage or if it was just that he didnt know how to implement anything other than the weak zone coverage. Probably a bit of both. But if he cant figure out how to run something more aggressive this year, my guess is Steinhauer`s next move will be out the door.

i disagree with everything said.
the biggest weakness for the argos last season was offence. constant 2-and-outs left the defence on the field way too often. fatigue will eventually set in and the defence would get burned. also, the offence often turned the ball over, leaving the defence defending a very short field. i blame the offence.

blaming the 2011 argo defence is like blaming a goalie for allowing 7 goals in a hockey game in which his team played short-handed for 40 minutes.

The whole Stein point is ridiculous. This is Chris Jones defense.

Blaming Steinauer is unfair. He took over the defense at mid-season when the team fired Chip Garber. It's not like he had an off-season to implement the scheme he wanted or an off-season to get the players he wanted to run that scheme. But even firing Garber was a "throw a guy under the bus" move by Barker. The offense was the problem last season, whether it was Lemon or Jyles, the Argos just could not get it going offensively.

If there was any problem the Argos needed to address it was their lack of good receivers. And that will still be an issue this season. Durie is good, but he's not a No. 1. Jason Barnes is good, but he's not a No. 1 (his familiarity with Ray will help). And Maurice Mann is a lot of talk and very little action, but perhaps reuniting with Ray will help him as well. You look at BC and they have a No. 1 receiver (two of them, actually, with Simon and Bruce). You look at Montreal (Richardson), Winnipeg (Edwards), Hamilton (Fantuz), Saskatchewan (Dressler) Edmonton (Stamps) and Calgary (Lewis) and the same is true. Each team has a go-to guy, while Toronto doesn't and haven't since they shipped Arland Bruce to Hamilton.

No kidding. Jones will run things his way, he's been a stud DC wherever he's been and his U.S. connections basically make him a second unpaid recruiter who can bring in quality talent to fill out specific positions of need. I expect Toronto's defense to be fierce this season, even if it's composed mostly of unknowns. Top D guys like Stubler and Jones don't need marquee names on defense to put together effective units.

As for Garber, he was fired justly IMO. I'm not saying Toronto's offense wasn't the main problem last year, because it definitely was, but Garber didn't have an answer for what the team's divisional rivals were doing on offense and that proved to be his undoing. When you play the Als four times a year, you simply can't sit back in a passive zone shell and allow underneath stuff, because the Als will kill you seven ways from Sunday with that nonsense. You have to be aggressive, you have to take chances and leave guys in man press and hope your front-seven can control the LOS. IIRC Garber was fired the day after the Als had blown out Toronto and controlled the clock to a ridiculous extent.

They've added some good talent on defense too. Brandon Isaac out of Calgary, Marcus Ball, Jasper Simmons. Toronto will be a very tough team.

When you think about it, Jones is the perfect counter to the eastern offenses this season. You’ve got Burris, Calvillo, and Pierce – all veterans who can eat up zone coverage and prevent defenses. To get to those guys, you need creativity, heat, and aggression. Jones brings that in spades. Out west, it’s a different ballgame. Stubler will have a lot of success in BC running a crafty match defense against younger, less patient quarterbacks in Tate, Durant, and Jyles.

A guy like Byron Parker will never be a good fit in a man press defense, because his whole bag is about baiting receivers into thinking they’re open when they’re really not, and then closing on the ball for knockdowns or interceptions. He’ll be fine in BC.

Don't know Ray beat him 3 times last year but he was 2-0 against Montreal. He's always done well against Montreal. He knows Burris bettter than just about any DC. Should be interesting

Jones is the DC and Steinhauer has been demoted back to being the DB coach. Steinhauer will still be involved in the coverage schemes. What's so ridiculous about that to you?

Steinhauer played under Stubler's defence...remember the bend but don't break scheme? That's what he knows, and that's what he ran last year. Does he know any other way? I guess we're about to find out

I would fully expect Jones to have a much more aggressive defence this year. That's going to mean a lot more bump and run man coverage from the secondary.

Steinhauer was demoted back to coaching the secondary. If he can't get the DBs to understand the more aggressive coverage or coach them on how to be in position to make plays, Steinhauer will be the next to bid adios to Toronto.

Doesn't matter how great the QB is - - if he's constantly getting hurried and knocked down, he's going to have a lousy game. Look at what happened to Calvillo last year in week 17 - - Winnipeg put him on his wallet six times and hurried him on countless others. End result, Calvillo finishes a feeble 14 for 37 with 0 TD and 3 INT - - numbers comparable to Chip Lemon.

Do yo disagree that Toronto ran a soft zone defence last year? Do you disagree that Argo DBs were constantly playing 7 to 10 yards off the receivers? Do you disagree that it's easy for a QB to complete passes with that kind of coverage?

You might want to take note of the first sentence... "Aside from the QB disaster" ....

Believe me, I'm the first one to acknowledge how brutal Chip Lemon and the rest of the Argo QBs were last year. Tough to do much on offence when that's what you've got under centre. You can get away with a lousy QB if you've got a great defence and a strong running game. Exactly as Winnipeg did last year. Toronto had one of the top RB in the league available last year but unfortunately the Argo offence decided to abandon the run and focus on feeble passing attempts. I guess that's expected when your OC is a former college tennis player and has never played football above the pee wee level.

But at the same time, there's no excuse for the defence to get trampled the way Toronto's did last year. Why couldn't the Argo defence force a few 2-and-outs of their own? Why couldn't the Argo defence come up with some turnovers to give the offence some great field position?

Thanks for stating the blindingly obvious. Not sure where I said or even implied that a QB could withstand being hurried and knocked down.

It's obvious to you...and it sure is obvious to me. I just can't understand why Toronto's coaches and co-ordinators couldn't comprehend it. Guess that's why they've been relieved of their duties.

Wow is this great stuff! Keep us posted on your media plans including TSN Discipline!

And thanks for not slacking off in the off-season like some folks not around too much any more.

Sorry, friend, I misinterpreted your initial reply.

In any case, yes, Garber had to go. However, I disagree that Steinhauer is on the same level. He was put in a no-win situation, thrust into the DC role midway in a season without any prior coordinator experience and with a very limited ability to change the formations and schemes. The personnel on defense was also not topnotch. It was too much, too soon for Orlando. I think he’s much better-suited to coaching the DBs purely on technique and reading keys. Jones will create a hellacious defense and Orlando can learn from one of the best in the business.

Stein definitely took one for the team last year, glad he wasn't dumped for it.

Rod Black called and he want's you to leave his "hellacious" adjective alone, he claims it is HIS. :smiley:

OH GOD THE BURN, THE BURN. :lol: :lol: :oops:

Agree that Steinhauer was in way over his head as the DC last year. He has no clue regarding the DLine and isn't much better about the LBs. But my biggest issue with Steinhauer is that he's a weasel who's more concerned with advancing himself that advancing the team. Very smooth talker - - just listen to him on camera. I seem to remember this was an issue back when he was in Hamilton too.

Last year was a complete debacle in terms of coaching for Toronto. O'Shea was the only one who could handle his responsibilities and ST was the strongest part of the team. Barker was completely overwhelmed trying to be the GM, the HC and run the offence since they had such a pathetic OC. Meanwhile the defence was basically left to just run itself. Chip Garbage figured he'd fit all the players into his scheme rather than the other way around...Dyer and Quick were just trying to hang onto their jobs....and Steinhauer was worried about how he could climb the ladder.

Not sure if you had a chance to watch any of the Argos documentary from last year, but if you get a chance take a look at a four minute segment of episode #3, right around the 28 minute mark until the 32 minute point. Absolutely pathetic. Looking back, it's amazing the team was able to win even six games last year.

http://watch.tsn.ca/clip526542#clip526542