According to Damien Cox "very possible at the moment" that the Argonauts could be joining the XFL in 2023

Definitely getting the region of the Atlantic and the east region of Quebec more CFL oriented is a huge plus for potential domestic ratings .

The idea of adding some large Quebec sponsor or Atlantic sponsor should be driving the CFL to make the infrastructure happen to get more NHL like return on advertising potential and other auxillary revenue .

This league needs to push thru the infrastructure ceiling with a reasonable investment for any community geared to expansion .

The 15 k plus stadium I believe is a sweet spot to get this moving in the right direction and catch the live sports wave money before others get their hands on it .

At least domestically the CFL and CPL can move quickly with their standards / size requirements for Pro sports .

Later those areas can get better venues if they are rewarded with some continuous sell outs and community involvement .

This is THE stadium in the 13,000 range IMHO. Yes, would have to be modified because of the lengthy CFL endzones but the design I absolutely love, might even make me into a soccer fan if I was ever able to go to a game in this stadium, or arena as it's called.
Magnificent for a small stadium. Someone knew what they were doing designing this beauty. If the CFL would have to reject a city in Canada saying they would build this stadium and we have an owner but the CFL saying it's too small, not enough seating, I'm officially done with the CFL at that point. And the Grey Cup could/should be played in this stadium. Again if the CFL said no, done with the league again. The CFL really needs to figure out how to get this type of stadium done with an owner and city willing to cooperate that can be at least at a "break even" point for the city and owner, at the least.

No. 1 on this list for a good reason.


Here in Oslo (metro pop 1 million so like Ottawa or Calgary roughly), there are 3 stadiums which capacity wise would work for the CFL and one which as a track/speed skating venue could fully accommodate a CFL field.

I KNOW CFL FOOTBALL ISN'T COMING TO NORWAY.. OKAY?? Its just offseason discussion for shits.

I suppose soccer as popular as it is in most places (and as flexible as it is at the pro level in terms of fielding teams at large and small economic scales) makes it so that most cities outside North America have several medium to large scale enclosed "football" stadiums.

Perhaps gridiron in its present form with 70+ players signed at any given time and a giant coaching staff needs more substantive facilities. Maybe it can't be scaled down though I have a feeling that the broadcast and licensing rights to a bigger league will more than make up for smaller per team stadium revenues.

Oslo's stadiums:

Even up in the arctic in places like Tromsø (pop 70,000) and Bodø, there are teams and ~7000 seat stadiums. Basically what we do for our university teams.


Norway... One of my favorite places on the planet.

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I really think a larger version of Queens University stadium at 15 k instead of the 8.5 k it has is good enough for the CFL in it's present form .

The one tier set up is a cost cutter .

Not advocating for Kingston to get a team at all just in case there is anyone thinking that is the point .

But for the Halifax's with no stadium at all it's an easier price point .

They have everything for the team itself in terms of facilites now and locker rooms .

It just needs loges and private suites for the corporate buy in and you have sufficient game day receipts added into the bigger better media deal with more content to sell .





Nice renderings. Would Kingston be part of Ottawa's territorial rights?

If not, then why not have a team in Kingston.

Population (2017) over 136,000.

Never been there but would love to go there and visit the fjords as part of the visit. Absolutely stunning from what I've seen on documentaries.

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Warning.. Run on sentence follows:

What I'd hope for is the CFL to be viable in more and smaller Canadian markets by expanding via temporary and rudimentary buildings.. becoming a bigger league with deeper competition and more content to sell across all platforms thus reducing the reliance on large, filled, state of the art buildings but by in so doing, perhaps improve the viability of the league to the point where we can afford or at least build up public support for such nice stadiums in more places... end.

I don't know what the CFL's charter says about "territorial rights" but I'd hope the BoG blow that up if it exists to allow flexibility to restructure the league.


.... why???

We mock the Argos for drawing 15K, why the heck would we want to add a whole bunch of sad sack Tier B teams?

A 15K seat stadium in Kingston is impressive for a U Sports team but utterly useless unless you want to slash salary caps for the CFL


Vast majority of stadiums are way too small for pro football
Unless the CFL wants to take a bigger interest in U Sports (minor league / farm system for Canadian players)

But that would cost league money for questionable future returns


Well For Halifax first off not Kingston and the CFL really isn't a large attendance league anyways .

Plus Toronto wishes it had 15 k going to the games . There is 5 k maybe today not even close to 15 k .

Plus have you visited some CFL stadiums .

Go to Montreal go to Ottawa's north side , go visit McMahon not exactly filled and not exactly a example of a modern stadium .

The CFL has brought down the number to 20 k minimum and that is just a number really no reflection of return based on a full auxiliary return on all revenue generated on the potential return on increased product .

The money is fully media produced it's no longer bums in the seats for pro sports . If it was just bums in the seats the NHL would die in most cities in Canada even with the arenas full . It's the auxiliary money which fuels pro sports evaluations .

15 k is fine world wide and a stadium can look good and full for a back drop for the CFL just as well as it does for soccer or other field sports . The CFL is not the NFL and has never had that type of support sustained anywhere to fill large venues .

Landsdowne was 35 k when I was a kid it's now 24 k full and anything near 20 k is a success .

The Montreal Als were a huge success at 18 k

The trend for the CFL is smaller is better .

It works and is the formula for a domestic league to still remain domestic and authentic .

The only other option for growth is the US and major changes to the league's identity .

No growth is not a option .


I would not recommend it .

It's way too small and way too close to Ottawa .

Great for training camp someday or a preseason game .


You may have answered your own question. The reason they wouldn't be a good choice for a new team is their population is only 136,000.

If you assume that not all attendants go to all games (not everyone is a seasons ticket holder) you'd need a lot more than just the capacity of the stadium itself. And as a percentage of that population it's not reasonable to expect that to support a new team unfortunately.

I would estimate 55% of the population would need to be CFL fans and attend the games.


As much as I want to see the league expand aggressively in Canada, yes Kingston is too small to support even a skeleton version of a present day CFL operation.

That's not to say there aren't numerous places with the demographic and economic scale to support teams in a larger league with better broadcast and licensing revenues.

Among these are London representing Southwestern Ontario, Halifax representing the Maritimes, Quebec City unto itself and yes hypothetically, the boroughs and suburban municipalities of Toronto.

The cities that comprise the GTA are of a scale that if new teams were marketed as their own and the stadium environment was an obvious visible festive feature in the community then there is huge growth potential even if these communities aren't comprised of present day CFL/Argo fans.

I think the problem with the Argos is that they have become invisible as "Toronto's" team because they are the club that plays the least in comparison with the others in the league that has the fewest games. It's a function of waning visibility.

More teams means more games means more visibility.. more water cooler banter.. more storylines.. more engagement...

The whole can become more than the sum of its parts. Giving Missisauga a team may just create a new Hamilton for the Argos and perhaps simultaneously a new Argos for Hamilton.

The barrier today is stadium infrastructure. We need to get past this. Part of this might be redefining what's acceptable as minimum standard to get a team going banking on the broadcast revenue and the improved local political will (with a team actually playing for these communities) for a better stadium later.


The timing is right not sure how long the window stays open for certain sports content .

The timing for Canadian content as new rules are taking place in streaming .

Timing for large streaming services to measure up with can/con .

Gaming industry is ripe .

Maybe I am counting the chickens before they are hatched but I see opportunity and timing a big factor especially , media /streaming , the pro football business ( only 2 existing today ) , need for domestic content , need for more content , gambling and the explosion in money for projects that await those with a growing industry especially live watch it now content .

I agree infrastructure is the major problem that needs to be solved and quickly to gain that window of opportunity .


The territorial rights, I think, is more about preventing existing teams from setting up shop. Montreal's territorial rights included Ottawa before the Redblacks came along. And I believe that Halifax was part of Montreal's territory too. But that didn't stop SSE from being granted a provisional franchise there.


With the growth in Canada's cities especially in one with the scale of the GTA, it's only a matter of time before there is another NBA, NHL or MLS team.

Perhaps it's the CPL that surpasses the CFL in relevance due to cornering growing suburban Toronto markets that have the demographic scale of entire provinces and building a deep, compelling summertime Sports-Entertainment option.

The CFL better boogey on a plan to end its stagnation before it's even further behind the pack.


Yup. Not that I'm someone who even if I had a lot of money would invest this in any sports league but if I was pushed to shove here in Canada between investing in soccer or football if it was a choice between the two and investing as I want to see more kids and teens involved in these sports for growth and not even as a soccer fan all that much at all compared to football, I'd invest in the CPL before the CFL in a heartbeat, not even close. Too much equipment in gridiron, too many issues with contact etc. Soccer is the future of football in Canada IMHO. As much as part of me hates to say this. Soccer also now with the CPL allows for involvement at a much lower price tag than the CFL but unfortunately gridiron in Canada doesn't have an equivalent of the CPL other than CIS and junior, both strictly amateur though, and that is one major problem for the CFL with it's current model of trying to be 'major'. The CFL really needs to be thinking in terms of American cities for future investment to try and keep any hopes of a 'major' type of image IMHO but the CFL has an uphill climb. Not saying it's "lights out" for the CFL at this point, nope, but getting there under their current model, perhaps. Again, I'm saying this as someone who doesn't even follow soccer at all or very little and has little interest in the sport from watching it on my couch or going to a game. From a strict entertainment aspect. Of course if my kid was involved or my niece or nephew or a good friend's kid, sure, I'd watch their games and show excitement from a family/friend perspective. But on a weekend, on the couch, a CFL or NFL game, CIS, NCAA whatever gridiron game compared with a MLS game, I wouldn't even consider ever switching the channel to an MLS game regardless of Canadian teams playing. I just don't like watching soccer for some reason. I don't get it. Highlights are ok though. :slight_smile:


Best thing for an improved CFL would be a super League of 10 or so U Sports football teams. Increase the competition at the university level, increase the available talent at the CFL level.


With full athletic scholarships to boot for those 10 teams or so? In this case with these 'super teams' then the Grey Cup should be played for by the winner of each league.

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