According to Damien Cox "very possible at the moment" that the Argonauts could be joining the XFL in 2023

Good find .

Maybe it is time, IF M.L.S.E. is not going to make a better effort improving the Argos situation, for the Argonaut franchise to change to COMMUNITY OWNERSHIP like the Bombers & Roughriders. M.L.S.E. has done a terrible job. They have BILLIONS of dollars. They need to SPEND a lot more money on marketing the Argos. M.L.S.E. spends millions of dollars marketing the Leafs & Raptors! WHY can they not spend more money on the Argos?! There is an old saying, 'you have to spend money to make money'!


Go Toronto Towers GO!

Ha , , ,Ha

I agree. The Argos should be taken away from MLSE and given to the city to be a community run team. John Tory is the mayor of T.O. and he was once the CFL commish, so he should be able to put together a group of community minded individuals with football backgrounds that would be able to run the francise. Would probably do a hellava better job than MLSE.


I agree. You are probably correct. It seems that M.L.S.E. has shown little, & unprofessional, interest in property running the Argonauts franchise. Not very impressive. I don't know what their problem is! G.M. Mike Clemons must be very frustrated.

The MLSE doesn't need to worry about the Make Beliefs and the Raaptours as they were established when they took over just like the Argos

The only team they care for more is TFC as that's their own creation.

Being a US citizen who loves 3 down large field football, there is a LOT I don't know about this subject but I do have some questions.

a- Should the league be headquartered in one of the cities that supports its team so poorly? If the league were located in a market that BUYS TICKETS and currently is expected to subsidize weaker teams it might have a better idea how to draw fans.

b- Would having to subsidize weaker opponents hamper a stronger team's ability to attract and grow its own fanbase?

c- I wonder how much autonomy TSN has or whether their ESPN overlords make too many decisions for them.

d- Does the league have the authority to take a franchise away from an underperforming owner and award it to a more responsible owner, or possibly relocate the team to a city seeking an expansion team?

e- The one issue I have with gridiron football is the over-importance of one position; quarterback. I understand why the League would not have any restrictions on import quarterbacks, but could that be one factor in the league's ability to attract younger fans?

f- Does the ability of western division teams to draw fans compared to eastern teams carry over to U Football also? If not, why?

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Are you thinking that there would be more younger fans if there were more Canadian QBs? Not sure that would be the case.

Toronto is the media capital of Canada. It's where all the big ad houses are located, and where all the big ad buying decisions are made. Moving Head Office to, say, Regina, would further close a door that needs to be opened more. It would be tantamount to the NFL moving its head office to Green Bay.


The consensus seems to be that if the Argonauts jump to the XFL the name will have to remain with the CFL, as it is belongs to the league. This got me to thinking. What could they call the team if it moves to the XFL? How about the CargoNets? or the Cargoes for short. No one should be offended by a name like that. Also, Toronto is a major cargo port, so there's that, too. (I know...don't quit my day job).

There is no way that Toronto fans would come out to watch the XFL Argos play their games in Feb, Mar, Apr.
That is the main reason why the XFL/CFL merger/partnership wasn't going to work, Canadian fans are not going to sit outside in the winter to watch football.

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Why would the league own the name? The Argos have been around for 150 years - they predate the CFL - the CFL as an organization started in 1958 - One would have to look at the contract that was entered into when the Argos joined the CFL - Also the CFL doesn't have the power over the teams like the NFL or NHL has - the CFL is a loose confederation of teams on a good day -

Montreal Machine fans showed up to watch 4 down football in 1991 and 1992 - I am also betting that if Toronto joined the XFL they would be able to move that February start date into March - or later to accommodate MLSE/Argos

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Doesn't the Major League Soccer season start in March if I'm not mistaken?

Yeah, but you're forgetting (or don't know) that the Montreal Machine played in the Big O, so fans weren't outside.


yep good point - my bad

Yawn !!! So when are they leaving ??


The short answer is no. I've followed this league since 1979 and have met many fans from every city and all in between. No one cares where the league HQ is, at least from a fan's perspective. Canada has somewhere between 35 and 40 million people. Over 5 million of them live in the Greater Toronto area, making it EASILY Canada's largest metro (Montreal and Vancouver are somewhere around 3 million-ish I believe). Furthermore, roughly one-third of Canada's population lies in a corridor between Detroit and a place called Kingston, and if you extend that corridor eastward to include Montreal and Quebec you will probably throw a net over 45% of Canada's population. This means that pretty much every large national corporation is headquartered in Toronto. If you want to do business with them (broadcasters, suppliers, sponsors, transportation, etc) it's much easier if you're also in Toronto.

It hasn't in the past. There have been many instances over the decades when teams have been propped up while shopping for new ownership. Sure, fans grumble about it but it doesn't really keep them away on game day.

That is a very good question and I do not know how much free reign they get. I would only assume that TSN is pretty free to broadcast whatever they want, so long as they maintain certain quality standards and make enough profit. That's purely my speculation.

Oh yes they do and have done so many many many times. If an owner violates the franchise agreement, the league has the right to rescind. If an owner wants to fold or sell, the league has to approve it and has the right to take it over and run it until another owner is found. Of course the league has to have grounds to do so, but the terms seem to be fairly clear in the franchise agreement of grounds that the league may use. This has happened several times.

I don't think so. There is a small faction of fans that want designated roster spot for Canadian quarterbacks, but for the most part the fans believe that the Canadian ratio at least in principle is good as it's nice to have a few hometown boys on the squad, but for the most part we don't care if the starting QB is from next door or from Mars, so long as he moves the ball down the field and puts up enough points.

Not really. University football is a totally different animal up here. It's basically an extra-curricular activity, not a multi-billion dollar profit machine. That's not to say that it's bad ball, but it is almost night and day to NCAA division 1. If you want to play football in college, you have to go to school - with the possible exception of Laval. Laval is probably the only program in the country that makes a little money. There are a couple of others that break even. Attendance is very local market specific, probably just how each individual school markets their program. There is very little coordination, unlike all of the conferences fighting and clawing each other for TV money down south. CFL and U-sport attendance patterns are largely unrelated.


And MM games were played during the spring starting late March and ending late May so weather shouldn’t have been much of a factor either way.

Yes many Montreal Machine fans did turn out to see 4 down football even with having a terrible team for those two seasons.
In 1991 the Machine attracted nearly 32,000 fans per game average with a losing record of 4-6 and still garnered a very respectable 25,254 average during the 1992 season in spite of an abysmal record of 2-8.
The Als, Argos and Lions would kill to have those numbers today.

I suspect that the direct affiliation of the WLAF with the NFL enticed fans to the games, with the thinking that it may lead to a future NFL franchise in Montreal.
That and playing against International teams may have also fueled the attraction.