A whole new team? Again?

I am starting to get concerned again.

We keep signing new players and releasing ones at the same time.

I just don't want this to turn into last year all over again where our roster completely turned over for the 3rd year in a row.

The people we released weren't world class players but I am afraid that we are going to have a team that is pretty new to each other this year and will take a while to mesh.

Does anyone else have this fear?

losses so far:

94 - Patrick* -
55 - Lancaster*
48 - Anthony*
7 - Kashama
9 - McKay
all part of a miserable d-line that needed an overhaul
54 - Botterill
36 - Schwartz*
5 - Woodcock
2 - Miles*
65 - Thomas*
28 - Lumsden
1 - Printers*
41 - Kordic
backups and underperformers
34 - Piercy - RET

so thats 14 of 46 players released - 30%. The cats will be better for having replaced these guys.

We currently have 9 guys on the team who have 5 or more years experience in the CFL. Only 5 of those guys have been with the Ticats for 5 or more years. Several of the 9 players with 5 years experience were not starters.

We can't keep cutting all of our vets and starting over. It's really frustrating.

The guys we are cutting stink, or are being replaced by better guys.

How else do you think the team will improve, people?

A bit of a premature assessment, don't you think?? How do you know they are better?? Just because we brought them in doesn't mean they are better. I'd actually like to see them at least in camp before coming to that conclusion.

Are Floyd and Barrenchea better than Kordic and Botterill?

Would ANYONE (including my dead grandmother) be better than Printers, Miles, Charles Thomas, McKay-Loescher, Cornelius Anthony, Sascha Lancaster, etc?

Yes!

I agree. I think these moves are improving the team.

Yes, the new hires need to prove it, that's what training camp is for. But standing pat with a 3-15 roster just because the new names haven't been here previously to prove it isn't a great choice-- that would mean never making any changes, because no new people ever are certain to be improvements until they've been here and played.

Nothing is guaranteed ahead of time. Montreal is pretty solid. Toronto has re-tooled from what looked at first like a bad season coming up. Winnipeg appears to have declined. But it's all uncertain at this point, for all the teams. That's why you play the games.

Obie says in the Spec today that he sees an all-import D-line. He talks about the depth at DB with Canadians (I suspect Barker starts at safety, asuming he's recovered fully) , and we seem to be heading toward lots of Canadians on the O-line; that's a good thing. We have strength at RB, and some pretty good receivers. Lots of potential among the QBs too I think. One tricky area will be LB... whether it's all imports or if Mariuz starts this year. Much depends how the ratio works out elsewhere, plus who else we sign before camp from among remaining FAs, draft picks or new hires.

I'm not worried about the changes. We have some good veterans, some new people with good pro experience. When you're 3-15, you need to make changes to get better. I think we have a good mix of experience and freshness coming together. I'm excited to see the competition at camp among the QBs. I have good feelings about Porter and Betts in particular.

I'm optimistic and looking forward to the coming season.

Do dead grandmothers count against the cap? Cause if she's as good as you say she is...

:wink:

Generally speaking, stability is better than rebuilding, but I'd be a lot more worried if they were a winning team shedding players. Until I see what they're bringing in go through a camp and play in a game situation, I'm pretty much going to trust that football management are doing their job.

[quote="stevehvh"]
Obie says in the Spec today that he sees an all-import D-line. He talks about the depth at DB with Canadians (I suspect Barker starts at safety, asuming he's recovered fully) , and we seem to be heading toward lots of Canadians on the O-line; that's a good thing. We have strength at RB, and some pretty good receivers. Lots of potential among the QBs too I think. One tricky area will be LB... whether it's all imports or if Mariuz starts this year. Much depends how the ratio works out elsewhere, plus who else we sign before camp from among remaining FAs, draft picks or new hires. (quote)

In today's Spec it says "With the addition of defensive tackle Matt Kirk last week and defensive lineman Jermaine Reid returning for a third season, O'Billovich said the team plans to go with a non-import nose tackle and imports at the other three spots including "two good American defensive ends who can rush the passer"

I am not sure how anyone plays the nose in a 4 man front but.......

Sorry but this may be a stupid question. Is there a limit on personnel that you can invite to training camp?

Good call blackandgold. I misread it. Thanks for correcting me.

And good point re Nose Tackle on a four man front!

And I'm confused as to who is going to be at QB this year. We don't have anyone with CFL experience.
Yes Porter did look good at the end of the season, but seems for the past few seasons at the end of the year we've had players that finished the season with promise and the beginning of the next season we expect them to take the starting job. Eakin, Chang, Williams to name 3.

This is why releasing Printers was a HUGE mistake. He was not the problem with the offense. I think this is Obie’s first mistake, but I don’t know what truly lead to his being let go. With imperfect information I won’t know for sure until the dust clears. I still trust Obie fully and all haters can keep hating.

I HATE HATERS.

Yes there is a limit to #s at training camp .I think it is 68 not counting people who could return to school. We had a few last season that should be much improved and should push some of young starters. :smiley:

Wouldn’t it also be a premature assessment to assume the team is going to be terrible?

Yes, we’ve cut a lot of guys. However if those players weren’t part of the solution they were part of the problem and are just taking up roster spots that we could be using to assess new players.

If you’re not satisfied with how a player performs you shouldn’t keep them around just for the sake of “depth”

If a player on our roster is not a solid role player or a potential starter he should not be on the roster. Period.

It's fair to say that. I never said they'd be terrible and I certainly hope they aren't. Forgive me if I'm not planning the parade route and patting O'Billovich on the back like so many. I'll give credit when and if credit is due.

I hope the moves we are making will improve the team, but I heard all last season about how great each person we brought in was going to be (especially at the MLB and D-line areas) and nothing really panned out. I'm waiting to see how things come together before the cartwheels start.

BG, I agree that 30% turnover from one year to the next is pretty high but perhaps not for a team that went 3-15. Too many guys simply weren't good enough regardless of how long they might've stayed around. I just hope the new guys are better players than the guys who are no longer Cats.

An Argo-Cat fan

For one its football and two its the CFL. High turnover rates is nothing new in this game.

For the most part, I don't think we are missing too much by letting this list of players go. It is sad to see Lumsden go, but it is just too risky to expect this guy to be a starter. I also have mixed feelings over seeing Casey leave, as I think he still has the tools to get it done. The problem as I see it was he has had too much time off since playing full time (it took Burris awhile to come back to form when he returned from the Green Bay practice squad), he kept getting hurt with the lack of protection, he was trying to do too much, he was lacking leadership skills, and his mouth may have gotten him in trouble, possibly losing the confidence of his team. Oh ya, and there was his hefty contract. I will get over it, as long as someone is able to step up, and Casey doesn't end up lighting it up somewhere else.

What have we added so far, Gauthier, Floyd, Baranechea, Kirk, and just like every other year a number of CFL unproven "potential" future players. Of this list of added players, you could say only one is a bone fide starter, 2 have started in the past and have some experience, and the others will hopefully produce one or two starters. I'm not a scout, so it is tough to make judgement on the new Imports that have been added. These relative unknowns can really be what makes the difference.

In the past couple of years we have not signed very good imports, and this has hurt us as much as anything. We have also had some bad luck with Canadians being injured at an uncanny rate.

Ultimately, we have kept the young core of this team intact. If 70% of the team is coming back, and most of these are the players who did well last year, and are the ones who are continuing to improve, I don't think this is really a "new team", and I am not as worried about the loss of cohesiveness on the team. Most of the secondary is the same, the interior O-Line is the same, the RBs are the same (after Jesse went down), the receivers will not be changed much.

Really the biggest overhaulls will be the D-Line, the Offensive Tackles, and possibly a new Linebacker. This is where we sucked last year. Simply put, we didn't get enough sacks, and we got sacked too often from the ends. I say change the things that obviously need changing regardless of how many changes are required.

So far I feel better about this team going forward. We may not appear to be Grey Cup bound yet, but going in the right direction. It's not even March yet. More changes to come with the draft coming, and then training camp cuts. We won't know where we are really at for at least another 4 to 5 months. Then and only then we will be able to make some judgements on the changes that have been made, and whether or not too much has been done.

PJ