I didn't know (the 14-33 record of Bombers GM Kyle Walters) was that bad. Did you say 14-33? Our board would fire everyone in the building – from the president to our video guy – if we were that bad for that long. We're paid to win here, we understand that and so do our fans, but in Winnipeg they can finish last, get worse the next year, and somehow get away with saying they're getting better ...
…They’ll fire a couple of coaches in Winnipeg and try to fool the fans, but you can’t fool coaches. We see the film. Their players aren’t good enough to get it done over there …
The bombers are 12-23 under Walters and O’Shea. The remaining 2-10 in Walter’s record came in 2013 after he replaced the fired Joe Mack. While it’s accurate that it’s part of his record, my question to you is whether it’s fair to include that into any consideration of his performance as GM since he was saddled with a horrible team built by another GM? There were few quality players and during the season, as the Riders have found out this year, teams are willing to take your better players off your hands but not really helpful in giving you any useful pieces to get better. Neither is a good record, but Walter’s IMO you toss out his part of the record in 2013 when evaluating him and look at what he’s done since to change the team.
As for the second comment, we have some deficiences when it comes to talent, agreed, but I think our talent base is better since 2013. But that comment seems to suggest we haven’t had coaching issues and I can’t agree with that. Our special teams is basically the same with the exception of bringing back Ian Wild and our returns teams have been outstanding since Tracy was let go. And I don’t think it takes much brain power to see that Bellefeuille’s offense is incapable of being a top rated offense in the current CFL. To suggest perhaps that the offense is let down mainly by the personnel would be too easy.
....The facts are that after telling the faithful in the Peg, that we are turning things around, and it very much appears to be the opposite, fans are walking away... No improvement in the standings in the second year of a 3 year plan makes the future look dubious at best.. ..If you want to argue the semantics of how we got there, matters little to the average ticket purchaser...This is a huge disappointment so far and it's going to take a lot of schmoozing to get those fans back...If they don't return, this franchise is in deep doo doo...We are told to stick with the present coach, by some scribes, because we can't keep blowing things up....Well that's alright if the team had shown progress..I believe O'Shea will get the beginning of next year to show that we are a contender...If we have a similar year to this one, 'the firing everyone in the building scenario' could be what happens, and another year flushed...I'd hate to see the title of this thread becoming a reality, but if we roll the dice and stick with the status quo and it fails, it could be a distinct possibility.
The Bombers are now officially eliminated from playoff contention with one game still left to play at IGF, and, to add insult to injury, Walters gave up Winnipeg's first pick in the draft next year (which will probably turn out to be #1 overall) for Garrett Waggoner, a kid who was invisible this year. Those two facts alone should seal Walters' fate. But you can also look at the kids Walters took with Winnipeg's first pick in the draft last year (O Lineman), and the year before (Goosen), as well as the one-sided trade for Neufeld before that. The Bomber O Line still continues to be a weak spot, in spite of (or maybe because of) all of these questionable moves by Walters.
Marcel B will be the sacrificial goat in the off season and they will tell us that everything else is just fine, and give them all contract extensions and then, they will fire them all at seasons end when things go south again.
That's the formula they use to destroy a franchise.
I still feel we need an older HC. We've tried the young route more than once and it didn't work. We don't need coaches who are friends(maybe a few assistants). We need an older 'crack the whip' type guy. Hufnagel is the perfect example. He came and set the table and if you didn't like what was served or the dining rules, you were gone. Stegall said as much during halftime yesterday. I admit I was a critic of Doug Berry yelling on the sidelines, but I'll take that over coddling some overpriced primadonna. Austin comes to mind and I think Tedford will build BC back into a contender. How about Jacques Chapdelaine ? Or even try getting Berry back.....Young HCs seldom work. Milanovitch was an aberration in his first year considering the propping up the Argos were given.
.....I'll be wearing a paper bag :oops: if this clown show continues into next year....Something really smells when, after todays play, Ottawas' short time in existence is looking to lock up first place in the east, and we can't even make a playoff spot... :thdn: Putrid...Short leashes for a few on this club next year and we better have plan B in place.
Ottawa has had a rapid rise to the top of the East BUT you have to keep a couple things in mind when comparing to the bombers IMO:
Ottawa had better Canadian talent after the expansion draft than what Walters inherited from Mack. Remember that Ottawa’s GM had even said he didn’t want to even pick from some of the players Winnipeg left exposed after the first couple of rounds.
Ottawa has had a healthy starting QB for two seasons, the knee injury Burris has sustained being the first significant blip on his health. Willy hasn’t been able to finish the year two seasons in a row. Ottawa’s depth at QB is as bad as ours was/is and if Burris had missed the amount of time Willy has this year and had to rely on Demarco they’d be in the same boat.
There were 4 first round caliber Oline in the 2014 draft class, 2 are in the NFL, another is Lavertu who was taken ahead of Goosen by Calgary. Aside from Lavertu, Goosen was the only other one in that top group of four that was guaranteed to be in a CFL camp come spring. Beyond those 4 guys, that draft class was pretty poor overall for Oline as there’s only one OL taken after Goosen in the 2014 draft who’s on an active CFL roster, T-Dre Player with BC, and one or two sitting on PRs or IRs. So if Goosen was a mistake or a questionable decision, who then should he have taken instead in your opinion?
I agree, the Oline isn’t very good but I think it’s a bit easy to blame Walters. Our problems with the Oline started with Joe Mack. In 3 drafts he selected exactly 2 OL - a huge gamble in the first round on Tyson Pencer, and Paul Swiston. That’s only 1 more OL drafted in 3 yrs than kickers under his watch. We wasted other first round picks on gambles like Etienne, Bilukidi, and Mulumba. Meanwhile, the other teams are using their high end picks stocking up on less risky guys like Brett Jones, Matt O’Donnell, Matt Sewell, Brad Erdos, Kirby Fabien, and on and on who are starting or backing up elsewhere and leaving the question marks for the later rounds. Sure Neufeld hasn’t worked out but he was a serviceable OL for the Riders and there was no way to predict he’d be injured so often and his play drop off so much. He got a lot of praise for signing an all star caliber tackle like Bryant, I don’t recall you or anyone predicting at the start of the year that was a terrible signing or that he’d struggle as much as he has this year. Picard was always a gamble, hoping he had something left in the tank and could mentor a mean streak in Sukh Chung. People want to praise Ottawa? How’d they get their Oline? Oh yeah, they were handed 4 quality young OL in the first round of the Canadian part of the expansion draft that exceeded the talent of any OL on our roster at the time, picked up Gott from Calgary for a pick IIRC just because he wanted to play close to home, and this offseason were handed Sir Vincent Rogers because that was the only team he wanted to negotiate with. The reality is no one is handing us an Oline and our starting material wasn’t very good. Since Walter’s took over we have 2 young starters who could anchor the Oline for a number of years to come in Goosen and Chungh, hopefully Bryant rebounds and gives us the stud LT he expected. Capers looks like a good addition at LG but hopefully we can find a Canadian to play that spot next year, and Jace Daniels was looking solid at RT until he got hurt and we had a revolving door there until settling on Neufeld. My only issue with Walters is we should have taken another Olineman in last years draft, with guys like Brett Boyko, David Beard, and James Bodanis taken after the first round, and would have been a good depth addition ahead of someone like Addison Richards who seems like a wasted pick at this point. But our foundation is forming, add maybe another FA signing this offseason and the 2016 draft class has a number of OL and one or two will fall into our laps with our 2nd round picks. I think our play designs also exposed our offensive line a bit which should be fixed with a new OC. Even if Walter’s is fired, whoever takes over will inherit a better situation than 3 years ago.
As for Waggoner, he was considered a first round talent but other than some special teams tackles early in the year he’s been quiet. He was always going to be a project considering he last played US college football in 2013 and now he had to learn the CFL game. I think it’s too early to label him a bust and I can see where his season has been disappointing considering the pick surrendered but I’m willing to give him a couple more years to develop. The goal with him I think was always to see him as a potential starting safety in 3-4 years. Still, since we’ve acquired the Riders 2nd rd pick next year which will be 9th overall, it’s not essentially a first round pick.
Maybe we should get help from the cfl like Ottawa did. They bent over backwards for the redblacks. Time for some payback. But that won't happen. So as far as I'm concerned the CFL can die. They screwed us over too many times.
....We certainly have to question the bod moves..They seem like the wizard of oz behind the curtain....lots of puffery and no substance..They have brought us nothing but failure for the most part of the last decade, and a review of these guys should be forthcoming..Hiring has been very suspect, and as it filters down to the people they hire, it resluts in what we have today.. failure with a capital F :thdn: I've said many times that this continual pounding of the Bomber fans will eventually take it's toll...This franchise is headed for the precipice and it has to be turned around NOW..It appears we are sticking with the status quo and this team, with it's turtle like moves, is further testing the patience (if there's any left) of the faithful fans...Other clubs have made their moves in anticipation for next year, while we appear to fumble around, naval gazing..Totally unacceptable ...IF this team starts out next year with the same futile bunch as last year, resulting in the same inept performance, disaster is around the corner...For many fans it will be adios and time to find something else to do other than following another faiulure..I hope with all my heart we can make the right moves in the offseason, as I'd hate to see the demise of a once proud successful franchise...Your move bod.
I hear ya Papa. This is the second year in a row that I'm actually glad the regular season is over so I don't have to watch the circus that calls itself a pro football team. It's very hard to be patient lately.
…Some folks think that maybe I’m a little too pessimistic…Believe me I’m not one of those guys, I say back to them ‘really what has the club done to make me optimistic’…Other than a few good players brought on board this year (Westerman for one) there wasn’t enough positives…I could run down the list of players who should not be on this team but it would seem I was just piling on…How can the management look fans in the face and say they did a good job of recruiting or that we had the best coaching that was available last year…Simple…they can’t…So it’s another offseason of changes…Just how many remains to be seen, but it sure as hell has to be better than the feeble attempt we had this last off year… :thdn: …I would say the jury is out on all management and players…I don’t know how long it will be before the club makes some moves but as far as I’m concerned it should have been underway after the last whistle in T.O…We’re waiting Mr. Miller. :cowboy:
Apparently 17% of the fans would disagree and thought signing Westerman was a bad decision according to the Winnipeg Sun poll.
Bulk of the work on the roster I think has to happen on offense. Defensively our biggest need is a bonafide pass rusher to play opposite Westerman. Guys like Peach just made it easier to double team Westerman. We saw how easy it was to take out Westerman in that finale vs the Argos when the rest of the line is subpar. I would also guess we also let Bucknor and Washington walk in FA but we have some internal options, especially with Derek Jones likely to take over for Bucknor.
On offense we need players at pretty much every position group to go along with a new playbook and is our biggest weak link. When I break down the last two seasons, we’re either out of it or we play in a close game. The only difference between last seasons offense and this year’s was that we couldn’t pull out late wins like we were able to do last year, that is if you take out the losses caused by our special teams problems this year with the expectation that things will continue to get better under a full offseason of O’Shea. But at no point is our offense capable of putting another defense on it’s heels and controlling a game. This is what needs to change the most IMO if we’re going to take the next step and climb the standings. Case in point - we scored fewer points that Montreal this year even though they went through more QBs.
…Well one firing has transpired according to Lawless…Marcel Bellefueille has been told by the Bombers his contract will not be renewed …Should have happened sooner but that’s a start.
…We need to go after Andrew Harris in fa AND find a big receiver orrrr get a little guy along the lines of Dressler and that’ll be another couple of pluses…
…Defensively…Bucknor and Washington are weak and I’m not thrilled with Hurl…Anderson is suspect and Peach can hit the road…there’s a start on D…
Marcel was the clear choice as the offense was stagnant and had 0 punch in first halves which almost always put this team in come from behind mode. Though I wonder who was calling the plays in the finale against the Argos - having Davis roll out of the pocket on some pass plays? Nothing like waiting until a nothing game to try something different, LOL. Who they replace him with will be interesting though. The co-ord jobs IMO need to be someone who’s coached something in the CFL previous as at least a position coach. Lawless mentioned LaPo but I think he’s probably hoping to take over the Riders HC job. I would probably be OK with a LaPo hire as OC though, our offense then wasn’t spectacular but at least we broke the 400 points a season mark. Maybe Dyce if Lapo wins the Riders job or Chapdelaine if the new Riders HC cleans house? Curious also what happens to some of the assistants, like Bob Wylie. Our Oline looked like it struggled a lot and our QBs took a lot of hits, but yet somehow we shaved almost 20 sacks allowed from last years totals, which surprises me.
Hurl is passable as a LB IMO, his tackle numbers were low for a MLB but he added 2 picks and 5 sacks which were pretty good comparatively. I also think he played a lower percentage of defensive snaps late in the season as Wild got on the filed more. First we need to stop with the stupid notion we’re going to start 8 Nationals. Then he’s not an every down LB but maybe comes in on certain packages where we switch from a 4-3 to a 3-4 D set. Now that Wild is back in the fold and we get a healthy Chris Randle back, assuming he sticks at WILL LB and isn’t moved back to a corner spot, a 3-4 set lined up like Bass-Hurl-Wild-Randle will work fine.