A little early to panic, doncha think?

Its only 6 games in and I'm already sick of the Freisens and the Wasnys and the general naysayers who always come out of their holes after a loss, never mind when we're struggling. Sick of the 'Mack's an idiot crowd'

Seems to me the idea was that the defense was supposed to help carry the team while the offense was expected to take time to gel given all the new starters and the new OC. Unfortunately, the D has been riddled with injuries on about the same scale as last years Al's. Playing without Suber, Stewart, Logan, Bowman, etc has been impossible to overcome.

Bowman is back now, and Logan and Suber are expected back for the next game.

Chad Simpson too should benefit from the extra week off

As bad of a start as its been, the fact remains that we are only two wins back of everyone else in our division, with 12 games to go..

Bombers are playing .166 football. What do you expect people to say ? Its great that your enthousiastic but it does not make them wrong.

....It's enthusiastic hfxtc....sorry about that.... :wink: I like his enthusiasm as well BUT with players complaining about 'deeper problems' (see Bowmans comments) I'm starting to get a different picture of the 2012 Bomber edition and it's not a pretty one. If Lapo continues to lose up to and including Labour Day, there should be a change. :roll:

Thanks Papa
I agree. But keep in mind that any changes made this year will likely not salvage this season… You might get a head start figuring out what you need and give that list to the GM for next season. You have to wonder if it is the Bombers who are worse or did the other teams improve more. I think it may be the later. That and the injuries to an already thin and young roster.

I'll reserve my judgement on the locker room issues until there's something more concrete.

Agreed, Papa, that if there's no improvement by Labour Day, a change needs to be made.

That said, I don't get the blame being put at Mack's feet. I still believe that all the key injuries before the season even started, as well as the ones that came soon after have, at least for now, derailed this season. Especially on the d side.

I do. Toronto and Hamilton both manage to trade for top notch QB's. Mack has refused to sign free agents in both off season. Most of his draft picks have yet to produce (yes it is early). He put all of his stock in Labatte then his whole draft strategy centered around drafting Westerman to replace Brown he got completely ousmarted by Buono and the GM "club". The only thing you can give Mack top grades is on his US connections that have fielded good talent.

He hired Paul and had a hand in the hiring of Crowton...

I suppose he's responsible for all the injuries as well? You can't tell me we'd be 1-5 had we not incurred all these injuries at the beginning. Who could have foreseen starting the season with both starting tackles, starting RB (and backup RB), and a starting SB injured? Think the Als could have gone into BC and won with those injuries? I doubt it.

To say he has refused to sign free agents is a fallacy as well. He's refused to overpay free agents.

Come on. Mack waited so long to make Picard an offer, he was already signed :slight_smile:
Did Toronto overpay Ray ? Is Burris overpaid at 300k ? is Davis overpaid at 110k ?
Tell me what is the difference between paying 300k for Burris or overpaying Jovon Johnson ?

I am not telling you Mack is wrong. Just that those who feel he has a large responsability in the product being what it is possibly right. Your angry that posters are blaming Mack. Well the GM has a dotted line to everything…From picking the HC, making offers to FA and option year players to calling out a number to Cohon during the draft. So if the team is performing badly. How can he not be the main guy people ask questions of ?

Just gotta make this comment, In regards to signing ray or burris, they were not free agents… calgary traded burris because they thought tate was better, he probably is, he’s just hurt right now, Edmonton traded ray because well, if people dont think its because the 100th grey cup game is in toronto and they wanted some buzz created in toronto, well i dunno. Keep in mind, winnipeg never had a chance at aquiring either of those guys , and there were topics created on ourbombers and the official bomber site at the time saying, thank god we didnt trade for burris. Ray, theres something fishy going on there, dont kid yourself with that one. The other thing is to get ray, toronto had to release pretty much their entire defensive back field and kevin eiben aswell.

I guess what people fail to see is, while hamilton traded for burris and toronto traded for ray, what has it accomplished reallly for either of those teams, hamilton is once again .500, toronto also. Hamilton has major problems on defense, toronto seems to be struggling on offence, i guess just cuz they got burris and ray,it doesnt mean they instantly became success stories. nope, they are both .500.

I suppose it works like this, winnipeg started off 7-1 last year, that’s better than 3-3 for sure, its better than 1-5 right now also, toronto and hamilton are both .500. considering winnipeg started off 7-1 and ended 10-8,i dont know why people think that toronto and hamilton are well, are they any better off? i mean really. think about it. sure right now they are 3-3 but who is to say they dont do what the bombers did last year and go downhill starting now, hamilton looked bad last night thats for sure and toronto looked bad against bc, we did more against bc in week 1 than ricky ray did last week.

Im not gonna pretend tho that things are all rosey and great in bomberville because its not, 1-5 means you have some problems, players like bowman and edwards talking about problems proves there are problems.

But dont kid yourself, just cuz toronto or hamilton got ray or burris, well… doesnt mean much.

lets loook at the teams who spent the most in the off season…

edmonton - carr,oramasionwu among others signed by them, they dont look so good. good d yup but that O sure is terrible.
Hamilton - fantuz, burris etc… they are 3-3 and that D is brutal,worst in the league.

i guess if people think spending money = instant winner, well, why have the teams (edmonton,hamilton) who spend the most money in free agency, why arent they any better? i mean, judging by some posts, you’d think they should be 6-0 and running away with the league, i mean… every year these teams spend spend spend on free agents and whats it get them, reality is, outside of bc montreal and sask the last 5 years, noone else has won anything so like, why do some think spending on free agents is guaranteed success when its pretty much proven that its not.

Good merit in your post there Killer. Had the Ray trade not went down, I think the Esks would have a below .500 record.
I'm O.K. though with the Ray trade rather than later....other than that - I like what Mark Nelson has done on the D side.

I think edmonton regardless of record wins that trade as it opens up a lot of salary cap room for them, it looks like they went the bomber route and decided lets spend it on the D. That D is solid there, top 2 in the league i'd say.

And let's be honest, how many years do guys like ray or burris have left, i mean eventually calgary was gonna have to go the younger route and edmonton had to do the same, not sure who edmonton has behind jyles and joseph? nichols is it? i hear he looks good, his time will come and in the long run, sure toronto or hamilton may have one good year or 2, but.. i guess..

I guess i look at it like this.. hamilton or toronto may win it all this year(doubt it tho) but they could but i guess, if in a year or 2 they are struggling and sucking, is that 1 grey cup victory, was it worth it? i mean, its hard to explain, i guess.. i'd rather be a team like montreal was, always first place, making it to the cup final every year or every other year, consistent right, i mean id rather have a consistent team year in year out then have one that wins the cup one year and goes back to the basement for 5.

Toronto and hamilton pretty much need to win and now. If not, there window, which is usually pretty short in football, starts to close rather quickly on them.

Ray and Burris were not free agents.

You're missing the point as usual. I'm saying had we not been riddled with injuries as we have been, and I'm sure you can relate given last year, we'd be better than 1 and 5. The team Mack fielded, if healthy, is better than the current record.

Man, arguing with some people on here is like knocking your head repeatedly into a brick wall over and over and over and over, oh blood awesome and over and over and over and over.

You wanna know what the real problem is here.... IT'S THE FANS. it really is, bomber fans for some reason or another seem to think they know everything about everything. The team is below .500.. LETS FIRE THEM ALL.. the sense of entitlement that some have, especially when losing is just a joke.

People can crap on this all they want but until the moron fans realize they dont know it all, nothing will change. You got people on other sites who truly believe they run the team, you got the morons on the free press site, same 10 morons who say the same stuff every time, BOBGanason and that KevinSC person, its just sad. Its pathetic, Its a joke.

WHY DO BOMBER FANS FEEL AS THO THEY ARE OWED SOMETHING?

nowhere on my ticket does it say anything about winning games or winning grey cups.

HONESTLY, im sick of it, like.. people need to realize that they are indeed part of the biggest problem.

FANS... sense of entitlment,thinking they know it all, pretending they run the team.. ITS JUST SICK.

iM GONNa say this and be done with these pathetic fan sites because quite frankly they arent worth it, it's just uninformed morons talking garbage about other uninformed morons, it never ends, same stuff every darn time.

i dunno about any of you, but when i put money towards a ticket or season tickets orr whatever, im making that choice, do i want them to win? YOU BET. do i expect them too? you bet. am i kidding myself that i think they are gonna win them all all the time? you bet i am. Do i honestly care if they lose tho? not really, do i care if i go to the game with friends or family and have a good time at the game and they lose? nope because honestly, i pay to watch football. Nowhere on my ticket does it say anything about winning, i make the choice to go to the game, why? cuz man, its something people do. I like football, its fun to watch and honestly it dont matter if they win or lose, its about having a good time with friends and familly. Some people seem to take it overly personal, the "joe mack is an idiot crowd". Like seriously, does it affect your life that much that if the bombers lose, you have to resort to name calling and insults? like seriously because if it does, you need severe severe mental help. MY LIFE DOESNT END IF THE BOMBERS LOSE. but it seems like some peoples do. and thats just pathetic.

Until fans realize we are just that..FANS and dont know everything, dont even know half of everything and dont really deserve too, WE DONT OWN THE TEAM, WE DONT RUN THE TEAM, WE DONT MAKE DECISIONS, THE ONLY DECISION WE MAKE AS FANS IS TO SPEND THE 60 BUCKS FOR THE TICKET AND noone is forcing any of us to do that.

The team just doesn’t look right, even the 4 - 14 club in 2010 was more competitive, this team just looks defeated. I think that is what disturbs most fans/media types.

I think calling for the firing of Lapo and Mack at this point in the season is a bit much. However discussing, as fans, their merits after a 1-5 start in a post Grey Cup appearance year, and probably should be 0-6 if not for a terrible play by Jyles and great hustle by Thomas.

Mack has unquestionably done a great job finding new import talent. Jury's still out on the NI side. He cut some inherited dead weight like Ralph. Some things were out of his control, Labatte leaving for eg. Some good draft finds, Watson for example, Thomas this year. But he's also taken too many projects when there were other options available for a team in need of restocking the NI cupboard. The draft hasn't produced a lot of starting Olineman in 2011 or 2012 so far, in fact a lot of the early picks are in NFL camps. Swiston has turned out to be one of the better ones from the 2011 draft. Taking Mitchell, who was one of the most ready to play prospects, instead of Muamba first overall in 2011 would have put this team further ahead this year than it is now IMO. Muamba might still have been around in the 4th spot used on Etienne. Jury's still out on Etienne but I'm not sure how much longer the jury is gonna wait around on that one. Pencer is another project with good size but a read over a player maybe at another position that might have offered more immediate benefit. Bilukidi was another wasted pick for a team in need of players. As for FA's, there have been few FA's over the last 2 years that would have fit on the team without displacing one of the quality players already here. Mack did try to jump in on Picard evidently but wasn't going to pay up like the Riders did. That's fair IMO. Gauthier? M'eh. There weren't a lot of quality Olineman available this year and that was the biggest area of need. Rottier was heading to Edm and no where else. Parenteau? Tim O'Neill? It's easy to say he should sign FAs, but finding the right ones to fit your team is another. I do wish he had made an effort to keep Donny O. Has a couple sacks with the Eskies so far. Brandon Collier has zippo for us. Having him around would have given them more options on D, plus he's a local product that wanted to be here. At this point I'm giving him a pass on the FA issue.

LaPo - I think its fair to put him under the microscope at this point. He came in having been a long time OC, has been the OC behind some successful offenses. So how, almost 2 1/2 years in, is his offense still struggling so badly. OK, instability at QB is one excuse. This season he gets let off the hood a bit because he's had huge transition on the Oline. But even last year, when the Oline was in place and Buck was healthy, the offense still had the same problems of slow starts and way too many 2 and outs. There should be more progression but its stuck in the same rut of inefficiency. That has to fall on him because up until this year he was calling the shots despite having an OC. And they may say Crowton is calling the plays this year but you wouldn't know its another guy calling the shots by the product on the field.

Just seems like we are always playing "must win games". Another one coming next week. Considering how bad it's been, and being only 2 games out of first in the division is a silver lining.
Lose again next week though, and it's about the right time to panic.

Gotta agree with Kubie here. As I've said before, satisfaction of winning comes with struggle. Buying a team or having a team that always wins doesn't please me as much as fighting and succeeding to get to the top. Last year was a perfect example, even though we didn't win the big prize, the road to the GC was filled with excitement. Most of the guys on the team were with us last year and I think it's too early to abandon them.

I am not missing the point. I would not fire Lapolice or Mack. They are trying to build foundations for the organization and that takes a lot of guts. Does it mean Mack has nothing to do with the current record ? In my opinion he does. He chose to take the long route and this make the record this year what it is. Getting burned badly with Labatte and Westerman really didn't help. I think he's learned a lot from those two situations...

But if a fan says I pay for my seats this year and I don't buy into Mack's philosophy does not make them wrong. I think he could have balanced things a little better. Its leaning too much towards lets grow our own garden. With expansion and two and three year deals with rookies. Its not a given that his philosophy will work.

Ray and Burris were not FA but they were available and the whole league knew it too. Tillman was trying to trade Ray for over a year and Burris came right out and said he was done in Calgary. Winnipeg being an Eastern div. team had every bit as much access to acquiring them as the teams that did. Are they better off ? I think so because a successful experienced QB gives you a CHANCE to win. Even Joseph managed to win a GC and a .500 record this year is a lot tougher to achieve than last year. Last year your had two teams that were not competitive in Saskatchewan and Toronto. This year only Winnipeg is struggling and I believe injuries and a terrible schedule is part of that. They should be 2-4 at least.

I wrote before the season even started that because of all the changes in the East and Winnipeg's 4 game start on the road that it would not be until mid-season that we could even rank teams. But Winnipeg can't drop its home games in August. They are behind the 8 ball and IMO their season is being played in August. If they can win their next two at home they are in the fight if not all they can do is play spoilers for the other 3.

As for Ray he could play for 5 to 8 years and Burris 3 to 5 more seasons. I think they were great aquisitions for their teams.

[url=http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/football/bombers/Elliott-replaces-Brink-as-starting-QB-when-Bombers-face-Ticats-165851656.html]http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports ... 51656.html[/url]

Elliott will start against Hamilton; Pierce I wonder/could be ready to go against the Lions in the following home game?

Interesting to note that Hefney, Vega, Muamba, and Suber were all late to practice.