First, let me rail against the CFL schedulers for having the Argos play no home games in September followed by a home game in every week in October. :x
To answer the question, I would think that the MLB schedulers would be able to schedule Blue Jays playoff games around the Argos schedule. MLB playoff games start at different times of the day in the playoffs, so they could have the Blue Jays play earlier or later than the Argos if there is a conflict.
Of course, it would probably be the Argos who have to move the starting time of their game if it conflicted with what MLB wanted. I"ll assume there is a clause in the Argos lease agreement that stipulates such.
If the Jays get into the playoffs beyond the winner-take-all wild-card game (which seems like a huge longshot, but is certainly possible), there is definitely a chance that the Argos will be screwed again. It has been reported many times that it takes 48 hours to convert from baseball to football, and vice versa. That means an Argo game makes it impossible to play baseball for at least four days, and more likely five. There is no way baseball's playoff schedule can accommodate such a delay when the Jays' turn comes to play home games. And I have to assume Rogers has a contractual right to evict the Argos for any games that would be conflicted by baseball post-season. I'd love to know what Plan B the Argos have, assuming they have thought that far ahead.
Argos had 3 home games in October in both 1992 and 1993 so it is possible. Possible for the CFL to move a home game up or back 1-2 days and MLB does have off days built into their 7 game series. So while this will likely create scheduling issues I doubt it will be anything the 2 teams can’t work out.
Back then the field could be converted in less than a day. Now it’s 48 hours. And why would Rogers play nice with the Argos over this? They give the Argos something like 11 or 12 potential dates – total – in which to schedule nine home games each season. They would suddenly be accommodating if they got in the playoffs? I don’t think so.
No I do not have season tickets. I live 2 hours east of downtown in Trenton, but might consider doing some games if they had a decent stadium. I have been to 2 games since the turn of the century, one around 01 or 02 (Pinball had just come off his big combined yards season) and game against the Bombers in 2011. Been to games prior to that, but really gave up because I find the experience dull. I went to Ottawa games back in the early 90s at the old Landsdowne Park and they had great atmosphere. Skydome is lifeless. I don’t like it for concerts or football and I’m no longer a baseball fan so the place is just an eyesore for me.
The Argos need to get back outdoors, but I fear when that happens it will be at a revamped BMO Field which is virtually the same thing as moving back into the old CNE Stadium with all the old issues fans wanted to get away from after the 1982 Grey Cup. I would like to see them get a bit further from the lake but don’t see it happening. For now their home games have much more life to them on my TV than they do at the dump. I’ll let you know if my opinion has changed in October. My wife has bought me tickets to the Ti-Cat game October 25th as an anniversary present.
I do think so because Rogers are greedy corporate (bleep ) and their only concern is the almighty dollar. To that end PR is extremely important. They don’t want to look like they are not doing everything possible to try and accommodate the Argos in a situation like this. They don’t give a damn about the CFL, but they most certainly care how they are perceived by the NFL who they are constantly courting and might not look kindly on a potential franchisee who doesn’t play well with the other children.
Good points TravelPatB my family and friends in Toronto are the same way, they love the City and everything about it, me not so much I dislike the City and live in true Country about two hours northwest of Hamilton but have supported both the Tiger-Cats and Argo's by attending games because I enjoy the CFL Game over the NFL, I just find it much more active and action packed on a bigger field.
I have followed the CFL and been a fan now for over 40 years and although I don't agree with many policies and politics, I hate Politicians as you could tell and if given the opportunity will speak my mind especially if effects me or my Country I love so much, or us tax payers who always get fed BS.
I think frankly the City of Toronto and the Ontario Government blew it when they were approving and building venues and stadiums for the Pan Am Games in 2015 because they should have went ahead and built a $150 million or $200 million dollar 30,000 seat stadium for athletics in Toronto for the games and later for the Argo's, same as in Hamilton. This is politics at it's best by the Liberal Government and Kathleen Wynne No Vision, No Future, No Outlook, just take, take take and rip off the Tax Payer, for 2.5 billion spent on the Pan Am Games soon to be 3 billion you would expect a stadium in both markets!!
No need to spend another $150 million (or whatever it would cost) of mostly taxpayers money when you've got BMO sitting there and a private corporation willing to pay $90 million of a $120 million upgrade to BMO that can include the Argos.
And no I did not last all 19 innings today - I was a fried lobster in that sun and left after over 4 hours and 12 innings. What a game though! But getting back to my question about the October Argos schedule. Argos might have a problem if it takes 2 days to go from baseball to football and two days to go back to baseball configuration at Rogers. They almost certainly will at least have to shift some of those games because American networks will largely dictate time and dates of various play-off games.
Theoretically if the Jays go far in the post season they would conceivably play these dates (these are home dates for the Cards last year adjusted by one day to match the day of the week the games were played because going from one year to the next the day of the week moves by one day. So if lucky (for the Jays) they might play home games on the 2nd, 3rd, 8th. 10th, 11th,17th, 25th, 26th, 27th. With Argos scheduled to play the 4th, 10th, 18th and 25th. Of those dates every single one of them would have to be moved if the Jays end up with a home play-off schedule similar to what the Cards had last year with it taking two days to convert Rogers Centre.
Long way off and still a long shot but just another reason Argos have to get out of there fast.
By the way - what a stupid schedule with 4 consecutive home games in October!
This is a disaster in the making. I guess people have forgotten CNE Stadium, forgotten the 1982 Grey Cup and ensuing public outcry for a better stadium and have forgotten that BMO Field is a matter of less than a football field away from where CNE Stadium once stood. To go to BMO you might as well have stayed at CNE Stadium as they will walk right back into the same issues with lake effect weather that drove them from the CNE back in the 80s.
You know what they say, those who refuse to learn from history are destined to repeat it.
But CNE Stadium did not have a roof over about 65% of the fans and that is why the last Grey Cup there became unbearable for 2/3 of the crowd. Pouring rain and wind and temperatures barely above freezing. We were drowned cold rats. (I was there sitting in end zone/third baseline seats). It wasn't that bad for many of those in the original grandstand who were under the roof. Plus the angles weren't great in many of the seats in the stands made for baseball.
The Exhibition area is actually usually not that bad weather wise July - October because by then the lake is warm. Its a heck of a lot worse (cold and damp) for games in April and May when winds come off the cold lake - which is not a problem with the CFL schedule. April and early May evenings could be BRUTAL down there for Jays games when they played there. I swear those metal benches conducted to damp cold right through you. I've gone to a few TFC games at BMO on April and May evenings and having done that I know very well why some of those early season games can have a lot of no-shows. It is a damp cold that goes right through you.
But once they have the roof over the fan areas that will keep Argos fans dry and somewhat sheltered from winds too and the CFL season for the most part is during the warm lake season not cold damp lake winds of April May. I think Argos fans will love it.
But Athletic stadiums have that 8 lane 400 metre track around it, which is not good for a football stadium. They are having problems trying to modify that huge Olympic stadium in London for soccer, West Ham has decided that the field is just too far from the stands. Pan Am decided that York U would be best suited for the Athletic stadium. They budgeted for a 15,000 football specific stadium for Hamilton and then the city topped it up so they could build the 24k stadium. I think they could have built these stadiums anyway and saved a lot of money as part of the “infrastructure” program, they didn’t need to spend $2.5 Billion to host some second rate games.
From late August through October those evening games can be just as bad as the April games. The '82 Grey Cup was the catalyst, but was far from the only incident that created the uproar in Toronto, nor the last. A move back to BMO is no different than putting CNE Stadium back up just with better seating and sight lines on the east side of the stadium. The Argos need an option away from the lake. CNE Stadium earned it’s nickname “The Mistake By The Lake”.
So are they saying that it is rainier and colder closer to the Lake? Isn't the plan at BMO to put a roof over the fans?
I wonder if they do locate the Argos to BMO then Argo fans will use the excuse about not attending because of the weather?? RC too big, no atmosphere, BMO too close to the Lake ? :roll:
I guess it's a relief that Hamilton didn't build their stadium at the West Harbour or on Lake Ontario at Confederation Park.
Ha-ha-h…yeah whatever. Obviously you have never been near the lake on a summer evening because if you had you would know the wind is stronger and cooler because it has not been slowed by land and buildings yet, you would also know the temperature drops a few degrees between the lake shore and the rest of downtown.
The Skydump does not have any atmosphere and your poor attempt at sarcasm won’t change that, nor does it change the fact, yes fact, that BMO sits a matter of a few yards from the spot where the old CNE Stadium sat. So tell me again how it is a good idea to build an open air stadium on the same spot as the old open air stadium that was well known to suffer negatively from lake effect weather. :roll:
dcmoses is right about the temperature difference with lower temperatures near the lake because the air is cooled passing over the colder than air waters of the lake. Although it is much more pronounced in the spring when Lake Ontario's temperatures are very cold. Approximate average Lake Ontario water temperature at the Toronto break wall by month
Mid April - 4C,
Mid May - 8C
Mid June - 15C,
Mid July - 20C,
Mid August - 22C,
Mid September - 18C
Mid October - 13C
Mid November - 8C
So not only in Toronto but depending upon the direction of wind there can be huge temperature swings because of the lake in other areas near the lake in Southern Ontario. In May it is not uncommon to have temperatures in the 20C or higher range in Hamilton but just a few km away in Burlington where they are picking up winds off the lake their temperature will only be 12C or something like that.
In the spring when the lake is so cold it can make for frigid temps near the lake. In October and November it can make it feel damp down near the lake and the winds can howl across the lake making it feel colder, but the temperature itself is not usually much different than away from the lake at those times of year.
The Argos should market the team in Buffalo and threaten to move the team there. They could be the Toronto Argonauts of Buffalo.
The Toronto International Film Festival focuses heavily on increasingly successful and important Canadian cinema, so I wouldn't say that all Torontonians are afraid of showing patriotism, but there are those "football fans" who refuse to accept anything but the NFL. The problem goes much deeper than that though. The game day experience in Toronto just isn't what it is in other giant cities and people know this.
Football only stadium with clean lines, spacious concourses, and well managed events
A young and vibrant local owner, and preferably a woman, or in the very least an attractive spouse who can mingle, schmooze, and attract celebrity to the games as an affirmation that it's the place to be.
Speaking of celebrities, get some to support the franchise.
Tailgate parties. The province simply MUST allow open air BBQs and drinking in public (parking lots or nearby open areas) so that people can extent the game-day event and party with friends.
Honesty I was hesitant to reply because I wanted to see how this discussion would pan out.. and now I'm more convinced than anything that Toronto is a new "american" city.
you guys mention that Canadian music gets support as well as cinema, but that is clearly what happens in the subculture that Toronto offers. If we're to refer to the mainstream or monoculture that form the basis of the Toronto identity, we don't find anything close to that. I have several friends from Winnipeg and newfoundland. They tell me all the time about how "where I'm from, we celebrate the Grey Cup, I never even cared about an nfl quarterback or even the super bowl until I came to Toronto, you guys worship it." I've heard them say this countless times. I was reluctant to accept this but then I realized. ... The CBC. You have one of its major shows called "Heartland" set out west. You have Winnipeg comedy fest, Halifax comedy fest, and now every Canadian award show is being held out west.... why? Why does the rest of Canada despise Toronto aka the Centre of the universe. Clearly there is disconnect, and this disconnect goes far beyond economic. There is a cultural divergence between southern Ontario and the rest of Canada. I was born in 1988, I'm 26 , but still feel like I can't relate to what much, global, Rogers, and bell (sadly) offer in terms of radio or television programming. The only channels I can find a common ground in are TVO, CBC, OMNI. They are unfortunately the only networks that plan on broadcasting either international educational content, or original Canadian programs. CBC is a major channel across Canada except in its major media hub, and it is in a tailspin towards irrelevance now because it is always losing funding. Omni sadly is used as a way to integrate non Canadians into Canadian society, which at the rate of t.o.'s change is largely US influenced. Everyone I know who is an nfl fan, I've asked 'what's your take on ncaa? Or any IFAF member nation's football programs?' They have no answer and will tell me straight up they are caught up in the fantasy and pageantry of the nfl. This proves at the very least that we are letting ourselves be influenced not even by a cultural movement, but by the sheer force of MARKETING. This is an even sadder revelation.
After which they say(after I explain to them the history of a 140 year old team) that they will gladly join me for a CFL game. To deny someone their culture is violent, to steal it, or misappropriate it... even more.
We do not inherent the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. Treat the earth well, it was not given to us by our ancestors, it was loaned to us by our children.
Now replace earth with "culture" and think about our identity as a nation... who do we want to be? Who are we?
) and their only concern is the almighty dollar. To that end PR is extremely important. They don’t want to look like they are not doing everything possible to try and accommodate the Argos in a situation like this. They don’t give a damn about the CFL, but they most certainly care how they are perceived by the NFL who they are constantly courting and might not look kindly on a potential franchisee who doesn’t play well with the other children.