2nd and Short - Are We Serious?

Despite a tremendous start to the season and his CFL career, Thigpen has settled into mediocrity. His average return numbers are just that - average. Perhaps the solution to our short yardage execution problem is to substitue AJ Harris for Thigpen and let McDaniel and Cobb handle returns? I'm thinking of "I"formation with Harris and Cobb being effective with sufficient options.

Blog: Wasnt in the shotgun. Cool story tho.

This says nothing about shotgun. The Bombers had a 2nd-and-1 and didn’t run a QB sneak.

Please refer to the 2nd word of my original post.

So what you are saying is that a team doesn’t have to run a QB sneak (despite the above-quoted “99% of the time”) as long as the QB is under centre?

Watching the Ticats@Argos game, late 2nd quarter. 2nd and inches, and Toronto just ran out of the shotgun.

We still are a nightmare on critical short yardage plays.

No kidding. I don’t know how we can miss getting at least half a yard. But a four yard loss? Ugly. And it happens way too much.

Again, running out of regular passing formations (i.e. the shotgun sets we use) can allow teams to find keys that tip them when runs occur, in what direction/hole, etc. We are an open book far too often in short yardage. If the o-line can't execute, the interior Cobb-stacked-behind-Hage's-butt routine is on offer.

It's not like Gibson hasn't seen this. AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. We had better figure that out and soon because when November rolls around and if we happen to be in Montreal, Joe Hagins is still very much retired. :wink:

Oski Wee Wee,

Russ

i’ll tell you why… it was the 1 yard line and it was 1st down… instead of leaving Porter in there and sneaking 3 times to get a yard, we bring Glenn in, telegraph what we’re doing, and get stuffed. Its so obvious. Its just a good thing it didnt cost us tonight.

Cobb's strength is not running through people. If we're lining up in shotgun on the One how about changing the play from what we've been using unsuccessfully. Isn't that the definition of insanity? What about bringing Cobb and Thiggy in like the Montreal game? Pitch/Sweep play? McIntyre? Or as Crash has been saying, Porter should be able to fall forward for one yard at least once in three plays. In the CFL it's a cardinal sin to not get one lousy yard when the other guys line up one yard off the ball.

It’s offensive co-ordination.

No comment?

They also ran 3 yards deep in the backfield on 3rd and 1… proving that although they got away with it the first time, eventually it caught up to them. Much like us at the goal line when we did the same.

Im just curious, If you were calling the plays, and you had to put a % of how often you would run a sneak on 2nd (or 3rd) and 1… what would it be? You’ve made a point of watching for any one example that will prove that im wrong, so id love to know how often you would do the same.

It would depend on a number of things: my faith in my o-line to drive the defence back, how far to get the first down (yard or inches), where on the field it is. But if I have faith in my o-line, and it’s less than a yard, then a QB sneak should be guaranteed to get the FD - on 3rd down. So I’d usually take the chance on 2nd and 1 to throw the deep ball, making sure the throw gets away, even if it’s out of bounds, so there’s no loss on the play. Spread the defence - sure they know what’s coming, until the one rare time I go with a draw or a screen. And I’d do this from my normal formation - if that’s the shotgun, so be it.

What I wouldn’t do, and I think this may have been your point all along, is line up in the shotgun with double tight-ends and all the receivers in close, and then try to run a small running back up the middle. That’s just guaranteed to fail.

For me on the second or third and one plays I would also agree that a lot depends on how much is required for the first down and where you are. The toughest place to get that yard is at the goal line, for two reasons: 1) They do not place the ball inside the one yard line, so you always have to get a full yard, and 2) The defense usually looks to shut down the run or the QB sneak and puts extra players near tight to the line of scrimmage. I don't think any team has much better than a 50% success rate with the QB sneak at the goal line. When its less than half a yard anywhere else on the field, the sneak is probably about 95% effective.

I think we are not very successful at the goal line because if Porter comes in and Cobb is the only back, teams play the run and stuff up the middle and key on Cobb. When we hand the ball off 3 or 4 yards back, Cobb is too slow to get to the line of scrimmage and punch it in. If a big hole doesn't open up, he doesn't even make it to the line of scrimmage. If Glenn comes in they key on Cobb and play Glenn to pass.

Power and speed are the key on these plays. The OLine needs to drive straight ahead, and if you hand off, the back needs to be quick and needs to pound into a hole before the linebackers get into the backfield.

In a similar situation last night for the Argos, when Boyd's left leg was banged up (ie. he lost his power and speed) and the Argos went on 3rd and short, the exact same thing happened. He got the ball deep in his backfield and went nowhere.

PJ