21,000 fans in Toronto???

I had to pick up a friend this evening at the Airport in Toronto flying in from Amsterdam, first time in Canada and drove past the CN Tower and the Rogers Centre around 8:00pm and thought Wow, Calgary’s in town the Argo’s are playing at home probably will get a decent crowd, I was surprised I guess to see they only had 21,000 in attendance, there had to be 300,000 plus on on the streets and in Cafe’s along King Street, I guess no one is interested in seeing their Grey Cup winning team play at home? I feel sorry for David Braley who invested to keep the team in Toronto but just No support? I think the team would be better off in Mississauga or Vaughn in a 20,000 seat football stadium. 21,000 fans for a stadium of 50,000 in City of 3 Million is pretty Bad!!!

David Braley must be paying a pretty good dollar for the management brain trust in Toronto between Clemons and Rudge. He should be putting some hard questions to these people as to why a Grey Cup champion from just last season and the current front runner in the east is getting such small crowds.

He's owned both the Tiger cats and the Argos for about the same amount of time. Let's see if he bails out on them too.

Not that I blame him.

Rudge may know how to put on an event, such as the grey cup, but he doesn't know how to run the argos on a game-by-game basis, imo.
i talked to him at the argos after party ( shoeless joes? ) last year after their playoff game with edmonton. he seemed clueless. full of excuses.
they need a guy with a can-do attitude. Rudge isn't that guy.

look at the argo's attendance from 2005 ; 30,000 was a bad night.

How could they be better off in a smaller stadium? They would be taking the SAME number of fans to a new site.
He needed to somehow get interest from people in the area and attract at least 25,000 paying customers. Combined with the approx $2mil increase in the TV contract next year they had the potential to break even. But signing Ray 2 years ago made no difference in attendance and winning the Grey Cup has made no difference.

And this is exactly why Braley or his oversight people need to be finding out what kind of marketing plan, if any, do this bunch have to increase attendance. Wake up their sales people and those who design these schemes, get them away from their computer games and water cooler chats and get them working as hard as the players and coaches are.

My guess is that with the recent and current success of this team, the rest of the organization is collectively sitting back in their chairs and waiting for the customers to come to them.

Based on the camera shots of the crowd, I doubt they had 21000. LOTS of empty seats

When you were talking to Rudge, DG, did he have that "deer in the headlights" look.

Seems that the only qualifications for being an exec with that organization is to look good in a suit and be invisible.

They need a new stadium in Toronto if the Argos are going to survive there. They play in a baseball stadium. It would be interesting to know even with the more popular NFL if Toronto got a team how much people would pay to go watch in that baseball stadium. Obviously an NFL team could attract a lot more people from the entire s Ontario area but as long as the Bills are around, more people will go to Buffalo to watch in a true specific football stadium.

Personally I think that the less people go, the more likely they will get a new football stadium in Toronto as Braley and Cohon probably really want to keep a team in the largest city in Canada. The less attendance, the more clout for a new stadium I think. And the more we should all keep shouting, if we want a team in Toronto as fans, to say they need to play in a real football stadium, not a baseball stadium.

Part of the problem with Skydome, as been said before, it has terrible sightlines for football, and lacks the atmosphere that other facilities in this country can provide. I went to a game there last year, courtesy of some free tickets given by my brother in law. It was against Edmonton. Mind you, we sat in the end zone. Still, it felt like we watching a game in a building rather than a sports arena. It was built without the Argos primarily in mind, so they've had to make due with what was available.

The Argos were to be facilitated at BMO field, but MLSE and Soccer Canada made sure that they could not get in through the design that was crafted.

There are university stadiums in the city that could likely be amended to accommodate them. Again, cooperation is needed.

With attendance for them around 20 thousand, one of those could fit just fine.

Agree old fan, play at York Univ's new stadium after the RC lease is up or if they getting kicked out due to the grass at the RC if that goes in and when the new stadium is under construction, assuming a new one would be under construction. Or work with York to up what they are getting for the Pan Ams, build on that. The Mayor there has mentioned Downsview so maybe that's a real possibility.

Rogers Centre is terrible to watch an Argos game in. It is too big, seats at midfield are about 30 yards away from the field and go up with such a gradual slope that you are way away from the field if seated 25 rows back. The old adage holds true - demand goes up when there is a scarcity of supply. There is no scarcity of supply of seats for the Argos because the stadium is too big so there is no urgency to buy a ticket in advance. And then because it is such a big city with SO MUCH happening any night of the week - come the night of the game people have a huge choice of lots of other things to do so the Argos end up not getting much of a walk-up crowd. So they end up with an over half empty stadium with lousy atmosphere because of it, so people aren't too keen to go back.

If they played in a stadium the size of BMO Field, sightlines would be better, more people would buy season tickets, there would be fewer tickets available and if somebody wants to go they have to plan and COMMIT in advance buy tickets and I suspect many of the games would sellout and the atmosphere would be great and people would want to go again creating more demand.

There is a reason Tim Horton's Field is going to start with only 22,000 - 24,000 seats - to create a scarcity of tickets so that people end up buying tickets in advance because that scarcity will create an early buying demand. I remember the owner of the Hamilton Bulldogs saying once that the one thing that hurts ticket sales MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE is having too many available. He said the Bulldogs would draw bigger average crowds in a 7500 seat arena than they ever will at Copps - because there will never be the scarcity of ticket supply needed to create the demand that causes people to commit in advance and buy tickets in advance.

Winning the the Grey Cup has brought the Argos a extra 2 million corp support that they did not have in 2012. So yes winning the Grey Cup has increase their revenue by a good %

When Toronto played out of CNE Stadium average attendance was 30,000 fans in a 40,000 seat CNE Stadium with the old Blue Jays addition in the Rogers centre, perfect control of weather and environment the team averages 23,000 fans in a 55,000 seat stadium mainly designed for baseball, with terrible sight lines and in 2.5 million population City??

The Argo's would be better off to build a Stadium in either York University in the north and tie in with the University like Winnipeg did or build a stadium at Canada's Wonderland in Vaughn or in Mississauga as Mayor Hazel McCallium said she would welcome, 25,000 seat outdoor stadium perfect for football, close to transit, shopping and parking, you could actually have a tailgate party, that's what Toronto needs and Yes, it would make a HUGE difference for any of you doubting fans of Football, it's called imagination and future forward thinking and something the Argo's and many Sports teams lack right now!!!

Tailgate in “old staid Toronto”? That’s a joke. They have to travel to Buffalo for that. :stuck_out_tongue: Then they all feel goodie, goodie about themselves ie. look at us, “true” football fans drinking beer in a parking lot in the boonies of a city barely bigger than Hamilton but we get that “true” football experience (which we can’t get in Toronto and in the US that is, not Toronto. :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: )

The CFL seems to have set aside the tremendous rivalry between the TiCats and Argos this year and it hurt them at the gate. Hamilton having to use the small stadium this year has hurt both teams in attendance. To accommodate both the Ticats and the Argos for a game in a thirteen thousand seat stadium properly is out of reach.

I went to two games at the RC last year, one game this year, and the Grey Cup last year ...

  1. The seats are too narrow and there is not enough leg room.

  2. There is almost no announcing between plays - "So-and-so with an 8 yard run up the middle. Second and two.".

  3. No visiting team clothing items for sale anywhere in the stadium.

  4. $10 beers.

  5. No atmosphere.

  6. Walked into the Grey Cup game two hours before the game started. There was not one Grey Cup baseball hat for sale anywhere in the stadium. Imagine going to The Super Bowl and not being able to purchase a Super Bowl baseball hat - not gonna happen!

I'm just going out on a limb here, however, maybe...just maybe the low crowds might have something to do with the highest ticket prices in the league by a long shot. Closing the upper dome and forcing people to pay close to $100 per ticket for most seats is probably more indicative of the low attendance than anything else IMO. Before people get ready to jump on me to say you can get the odd seat here or there for $60 or $80 remember I said most seats folks....

Argo's Suck who cares!

True not having the CLassic this Monday uck like an Argo and both teams are losing money on this weekend at the gate , the CFL should compinsate Ticats and Argos

Let's just hope though, and I think so, that the CFL in S Ont will be fine for such years that this won't happen, especially with Ottawa coming back in the fold. If not, then the league truly is in trouble in this area. Of course there is nothing like a Labour Day Hamilton-Toronto matchup but it just shouldn't be that important overall to the eventual success of the league in this area.