2022-11-20 Game Tracker - Toronto Argonauts vs. Winnipeg Blue Bombers (6296)

Toronto Argonauts

This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at https://www.cfl.ca/games/6296/toronto-argonauts-vs-winnipeg-blue-bombers/#preview



I think I'm mostly interested in the Harris vs Oliveira/his old team storyline.

But the Bombers' right to call themselves a dynasty is also on the line, I'd say.

I am going to throw up in my mouth, but I will be rooting for the Argos in the Grey Cup. I don't think the Bombers are worthy of having a dynasty. They are a very good, but not great team.
Go Argos! :face_vomiting:


Can I ask what makes a team worthy of a dynasty? Serious question

That's a tough question to answer. I wish I could give you precise metrics, but I can't. I think there has been better teams than the Bombers in the recent past.
For example, I think the 2009 Alouettes would beat the 2022 Bombers.

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Couldn't disagree with you more.

First off, having been born and raised in Hamilton, not a chance I could ever cheer for the Argos, that's in the blood.

Secondly, I do think the Bombers are a great team. They've won 2 consecutive Grey Cups and are on their way to a third. Look at their won/loss over the past three seasons. It's outstanding.

Third, I think the triumvirate in charge, O'Shea, Pierce, and Hall are the class of the CFL at their jobs. None better, in my opinion.

A superior offensive line; tremendous receiving corps; solid QBing; great ground game.

A superior defensive line; strong linebacking; ball hawking DBs.

There isn't a weakness there.

So yes; a great team.


My opinion is a lot less than used to be the case. The Tampa Bay Lightning at two in a row and the Avalanche if they win again this year should be considered mini dynasties at least. The Chicago Black Hawks that won 3 Cups in 5 years from 2010-15 should be considered one I would argue.

We are unlikely to see a past dynasty of 4-5 years in a row like the Habs, Islanders or Eskimos for various reasons meant to promote parity. It might be a tad easier in basketball where two great players can make a team, or baseball where a team can still be bought. Even the CFL is a little easier with only 8 other teams to beat out.

Otherwise, comparisons to a different era, in my opinion, just aren’t possible. The Eskimos, for example, didn’t have to worry about free agency and therefore retaining the players they wanted. They could pay anything they wanted to any player they wanted, much like Toronto benefitted from being able to pay Flutie and Ishmael a million dollars a year even into the 90’s. There was little competition from the NFL then and in fact the teams of that era could easily compete for some of the best NFL players if they chose to do so.

None of those circumstances exist today in a salary cap league and it is considerably more difficult to repeat even, much less put together a dynasty. As a result, I would answer your question by saying that a threepeat would absolutely qualify as a modern dynasty, taking into account the degree of difficulty of such an accomplishment in a salary cap world. We saw what happened to the Black Hawks and what is now happening to the Lightning. If there was no cap and we were playing by 1970’s rules the Bombers, who obviously make money, could easily have kept numerous stars from last year such as Richardson, Lawler, Alford, Castillo Kongbo and Desjarlais from both other teams and the NFL. That’s just not possible in today’s salary cap era and the NFL’s ability to steal players only so that they can sit on their practice squad, such as Streveler.

Although I think it is impossible to make a definitive comparison between different eras for the reasons I have given as well as others, I am of the view that three in a row today is surely equal to the five in a row by Edmonton in a very different time under much more favourable circumstances for a dynasty.


I don’t but of course that is speculation on the part of both of us. How about the 2021 Bombers and their best in 50 year defence, which by the way look like it returned for yesterdays game at least? I look at the fact that the Bombers didn’t play nearly their best game yesterday and Collaros certainly did not, yet they dominated most of the game and the final score was flattering to the Lions, who remain a very good football team.


I get what you are saying. As a Bomber fan, I know most of the games this year come with the “we didn’t play our A game but got the job done”. So that vibe is off putting.

I can’t really compare 2009 teams to 2022 teams as I was a young kid when the Als were going to (and winning) multiple Grey Cups.


When you consider the high degree of turnover from free agency in this day and age, the Bombers' constistent high performance is even more impressive.


The early news on Zach’s ankle injury appears to be positive.

(No concern over Bombers QB Collaros' availability for 109th Grey Cup Zach Collaros Winnipeg Blue Bombers ankle injury no concern 109th Grey Cup - TSN.ca)

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Team Projection
Winnipeg Blue Bombers 78.00%
Toronto Argonauts 22.00%
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In such a small league, you'd think this matchup would've happened sooner.


25th Grey Cup, Varsity Stadium in Toronto on Dec. 11, 1937
Toronto Argonauts, 4 — Winnipeg Blue Bombers, 3

26th Grey Cup, Varsity Stadium in Toronto on Dec. 10, 1938
Toronto Argonauts, 30 — Winnipeg Blue Bombers, 7

33rd Grey Cup, Varsity Stadium in Toronto on Dec. 1, 1945
Toronto Argonauts, 35 — Winnipeg Blue Bombers, 0

34th Grey Cup, Varsity Stadium in Toronto on Nov. 30, 1946
Toronto Argonauts, 28 — Winnipeg Blue Bombers, 6

35th Grey Cup, Varsity Stadium in Toronto on Nov. 29, 1947
Toronto Argonauts, 10 — Winnipeg Blue Bombers, 9

38th Grey Cup, Varsity Stadium in Toronto on Nov. 25, 1950
Toronto Argonauts, 13 — Winnipeg Blue Bombers, 0

So, the Argos are 6-0 vs the Bombers in Grey Cups?



I think you could add Miller, Walters, Danny Mac, and Goveia to the "class of the CFL". Not to mention some of the other position coaches.


It’s been 72, but there were 22 years from 1987 to 2014 (the year they went back to the West for good) that were spent in the East or North Division.

So it’s only been 50 opportunities since 1950, but whose counting?

The teams will combine for 50 points, Oliveira will have 50 more rushing yards than Harris, the 50/50 will be 50 thousand (times 10), and every hard core fan at festivities in Saskatchewan who drink beer, will have 50 from Wednesday to Sunday.

72 is just too large a number in all those scenarios.

One zero will change though. The 6-0 will be 6-1. Go Bombers.



The beer of choice?