aulcee

Danny Mac left Winnipeg for BC where he was behind Danny Barrett in 93 and Kent Austin in 94 so to say he was developed by the Bombers is a stretch. His opportunity came during the expansion to the states era when there was a requirement for another 6 starters. He became a starter in his 6th year

Hajrullahu is a better example of someone the Bombers found but lost faith with in his second year in favor of a established veteran free agent. This seems to be the current management team philosophy and based on the development of their draft picks appears to be a logical choice. I can only guess that this is the fastest way to the cup in their mind and appears to be the route that they are taking.

Even as far as giving a guy some time in an already decided game is not in O'Shea's mindset / wiring so I am guessing again that the Bombers will never develop a quarterback on their own under the current management.

One year contracts will factor into development as well. The game has changed.

Bomber management is short on experience and being patient is not their strong suit. Pointing fingers and blaming others for the lack of success is something they are better at. Not seeing Durant for what he was is on them. It was way too odd from day 1 imo but now everything is on Durant being a dirtbag and spoiling the plan and Walters etal are poor victims.

Hate me if you want with the others but the Bombers winning the cup in 2018 will be a miracle of epic proportions and yet we can still hope.
We stand as good as a chance as most and more than many of winning  a GC.Go through the lineup.Show me where we are being dominated at every position.A miracle? That's  utterly ridiculous. You could go through every team in the league and find negative things to say.Howmany other teams have let a guy go only to have him shine on another team?All of them.How many other teams have had 1st  rounders fail?All of them.How many teams are starting a QB that came from another team?Most of them.What is the point in digging and scratching to find every negative thing you can?So we are down our starting QB for a few games,so what.You are totally ignoring our record last year and we have improved.

DAN38


Bomber management is short on experience and being patient is not their strong suit. Pointing fingers and blaming others for the lack of success is something they are better at. Not seeing Durant for what he was is on them. It was way too odd from day 1 imo but now everything is on Durant being a dirtbag and spoiling the plan and Walters etal are poor victims.

Hate me if you want with the others but the Bombers winning the cup in 2018 will be a miracle of epic proportions and yet we can still hope.
   I don't think anyone hates you Joe. I know I don't. I do enjoy reading your take on things. Many times you are right. I just don't think we should label another human as being a certain way unless they explained it to you. As a fan I have to believe that our Pres, GM and coaches want to win. Yes we can blame management for not seeing DD for what he was and rightfully so but did anyone think he would pull the stunt he did. In other words, the fact Walters made a mistake doesn't let DD off the hook either. If Walters makes the same mistake again, then I'll stand up and shout. I prefer to look at all the good that's been done. Hell, when was the last time you remember players wanting to play for the Bombers ? We are a contender each year in spite of bad luck, yes bad luck ! We are given setbacks every day, how we deal with them is key.

   If you ask me, the team who won the the cup last year was a miracle of epic proportions.




  Oh yeah, Durant IS a dirtbag.
Si vis pacem... para bellum

If you think you can't when you can, you won't.
If you think you can when you can't, you just might.

joe

Not sure what is going on in Hamilton with Vernon Adams given the announcement that he was to be traded yesterday. Still have not heard any news on that.

My guess is that he was told that Manziel was ahead of him which I am sure he understood and that he asked to be traded in order that he could have a chance to be on the field. I believe June Jones understood where Adams was coming from and agreed to help.

Even if Nichols were healthy Adams would seem like a good depth signing imo. Hamilton did trade Charleston Hughs for him before Johnny showed up so Tillman must have felt he was of some value.

Why would the Bombers not consider it even though Streveler looks bonafide at this point? What if Streveler gets dinged in game 1? Alex Ross who is surely better than he showed in the first preseason game? Zach Mahoney? Brian Bennett who hasn't even started practising? 

Where is the downside to bringing Adams in? Especially now.

Ho hum, we like what we have. Leave the thinking to me Bubba Louie.

Bomber fans deserve better imo.

papazoola

......Don't know how the Cats can trade damaged goods joe...He was on the ir recently and may still be...Adams would have to come here for zippo and that's not going to happen...The guy has seen so many stops in his short CFL career that has to give one pause...Is he a viable option when we might have better on our roster already?? ...Wally on the coast knows qb's and has done a damn good job bringing them into this league...He parted ways with Adams too quickly and in my mind that raises a red flag....Thanx but no thanx...Even IF...we decided to kick the tires, I think we would be just another stop that went wrong for Adams JR.
...one of the most integral parts overlooked in conversation....is to hear what\'s NOT being said....Anonymous

Clutch

Let me get this straight. Until the Bombers develop their own QB, they will not win a GC. The GC win therefore hinges on our own QB.
I beg to differ.
   GC winners

   2017- Argos with Ray
       16- Ott with Burris
       15- Edm with Reilly
       14- Cal with Mitchell, their own
       13- Sask with Durant, their own
      
  As I look further back there are far more GC wins with QBs who weren't developed by the winning teams than were. Far more.
   I want the Bombers to develop their own of course but i don't think our GC depends on it.

    84-Winn with Clements
    88- Winn with Salisbury, we brought him in I think
    90- Winn with Burgess
  2 out of 3 of our last GCs were with QBs who we didn't develop.
  
Yep - you got it. Cause we had Danny McManus in the stable, and before him Dieter Brock, and we got Clements for Brock. We signed Dunnigan so we traded McManus to B.C. Salisbury was a fluke - it was our Defence that won that G.C - see, in an 8 team league, it's easy to fluke. 

I'm still confused by your stand. I have facts/history on my side. We haven't won a G.C. since 1990. That's a fact. It's also a fact we haven't brought in and developed our own QB since, gee, 1990 (Danny McManus). 

Those are facts, look them up. I'm not making this up. So yes, I'm standing by what I said - until we get our own QB and develop him, I don't hold much hope. Every single team goes through dry spells, that's normal. AC was in the US (Las Vegas Posse I believe) then went to Hamilton before going to Montreal and we know what happened there. But Montreal was able to get other QB's.

I agree 100% of what you said about copying Edmonton though - you better believe I wish the bombers could. Just go back to Warren Moon/Tom Wilkenson and move forward - you'll be amazed at how many HOF QB's the Eskies have recruited and developed. Amazed. I keep thinking, every year, the Bombers are due - and every year, since McManus was traded to B.C. - the Bombers fail miserably - and haven't won a Grey Cup. All facts. I'm out - but when we do get a QB and develop him and win a G.C. with him, I promise I'll rehash this with a big smile and an "I told you so" - I just hope I don't have to wait another 25 years to do it :) 

FootbalYouBet




I'm still confused by your stand. I have facts/history on my side. We haven't won a G.C. since 1990. That's a fact. It's also a fact we haven't brought in and developed our own QB since, gee, 1990 (Danny McManus).


As far as I can recollect, DM had very little to do with the winning of the cup in 90.  The fact that he was on the team when they won is irrelevant.  That takes away the connection between your two facts.

Also, DM was not developed much in WPG. It wasn't until his 3rd year in BC that he accomplished anything of note.

Crush cream soda is oh so good.  I think I'll have another

There are people out there who just will not be happy until they have created sentient AI.

DAN38

Let me get this straight. Until the Bombers develop their own QB, they will not win a GC. The GC win therefore hinges on our own QB.
I beg to differ.
   GC winners

   2017- Argos with Ray
       16- Ott with Burris
       15- Edm with Reilly
       14- Cal with Mitchell, their own
       13- Sask with Durant, their own
      
  As I look further back there are far more GC wins with QBs who weren't developed by the winning teams than were. Far more.
   I want the Bombers to develop their own of course but i don't think our GC depends on it.

    84-Winn with Clements
    88- Winn with Salisbury, we brought him in I think
    90- Winn with Burgess
  2 out of 3 of our last GCs were with QBs who we didn't develop.
  
Yep - you got it. Cause we had Danny McManus in the stable, and before him Dieter Brock, and we got Clements for Brock. We signed Dunnigan so we traded McManus to B.C. Salisbury was a fluke - it was our Defence that won that G.C - see, in an 8 team league, it's easy to fluke.

I'm still confused by your stand. I have facts/history on my side. We haven't won a G.C. since 1990. That's a fact. It's also a fact we haven't brought in and developed our own QB since, gee, 1990 (Danny McManus).

Those are facts, look them up. I'm not making this up. So yes, I'm standing by what I said - until we get our own QB and develop him, I don't hold much hope. Every single team goes through dry spells, that's normal. AC was in the US (Las Vegas Posse I believe) then went to Hamilton before going to Montreal and we know what happened there. But Montreal was able to get other QB's.

I agree 100% of what you said about copying Edmonton though - you better believe I wish the bombers could. Just go back to Warren Moon/Tom Wilkenson and move forward - you'll be amazed at how many HOF QB's the Eskies have recruited and developed. Amazed. I keep thinking, every year, the Bombers are due - and every year, since McManus was traded to B.C. - the Bombers fail miserably - and haven't won a Grey Cup. All facts. I'm out - but when we do get a QB and develop him and win a G.C. with him, I promise I'll rehash this with a big smile and an "I told you so" - I just hope I don't have to wait another 25 years to do it :)
  Fair enough, man, but don't leave, stick around. All opinions are needed. You do know your stuff.

Clutch


Bomber management is short on experience and being patient is not their strong suit. Pointing fingers and blaming others for the lack of success is something they are better at. Not seeing Durant for what he was is on them. It was way too odd from day 1 imo but now everything is on Durant being a dirtbag and spoiling the plan and Walters etal are poor victims.

Hate me if you want with the others but the Bombers winning the cup in 2018 will be a miracle of epic proportions and yet we can still hope.
  I don't think anyone hates you Joe. I know I don't. I do enjoy reading your take on things. Many times you are right. I just don't think we should label another human as being a certain way unless they explained it to you. As a fan I have to believe that our Pres, GM and coaches want to win. Yes we can blame management for not seeing DD for what he was and rightfully so but did anyone think he would pull the stunt he did. In other words, the fact Walters made a mistake doesn't let DD off the hook either. If Walters makes the same mistake again, then I'll stand up and shout. I prefer to look at all the good that's been done. Hell, when was the last time you remember players wanting to play for the Bombers ? We are a contender each year in spite of bad luck, yes bad luck ! We are given setbacks every day, how we deal with them is key.

   If you ask me, the team who won the the cup last year was a miracle of epic proportions.




  Oh yeah, Durant IS a dirtbag.
Hmmmm - I dunno. Are the Bomber dirtbags? If Durant is, so is Wpg, but hold on, so is B.C., Calgary, Edmonton, Sask, Hamilton, Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal.

You both realize the teams do this all the time, right? Shortly before they need to pay a player his bonus, especially if he's a bit older and going into his last year of a contract, they cut him! Guy is still good enough to play, and he usually latches on with another team sans bonus, but they do it. Happens all the time (Adrius Bowman as an example - esks cut him before they had to pay him a bonus). 

So though I don't condone at all what DD did, nor do I want to see the bombers offer him anything to come back (they shouldn't though he would just go on his current contract if he 'unretired') I'm afraid I have a hard time calling out a player for doing that when all the CFL teams do it on a yearly basis. 

And 70 grand cdn isn't much. Don't forget, he'll need to pay taxes on it, and his agent takes a cut of it too. In the end, thought the Bombers are out 70K, Durant probably netted 40k or so. Not exactly life changing money and we don't know his personal circumstances either. He just exposed the same loophole for the players that the teams use. Good on him! 

DAN38

   Right is always right, even if you're the only one doing it.
   Wrong is always wrong, even if everyone is doing it.

Clutch




I'm still confused by your stand. I have facts/history on my side. We haven't won a G.C. since 1990. That's a fact. It's also a fact we haven't brought in and developed our own QB since, gee, 1990 (Danny McManus).


As far as I can recollect, DM had very little to do with the winning of the cup in 90.  The fact that he was on the team when they won is irrelevant.  That takes away the connection between your two facts.

Also, DM was not developed much in WPG. It wasn't until his 3rd year in BC that he accomplished anything of note.
Point over head - bomber did develop him to a certain degree, but he became a starter, and a hall of famer - and we were the ones recruited him. I know I've written a lot of posts on this - my point is simple, the bombers have not been able to identify a true #1 CFL QB since Danny McManus. We have been relying on other teams castoffs since 1990. And we haven't won the GC since, 1990. I don't call that 'coincidence'. Granted, the bombers have had some absolutely brutal management and coaches in that time frame which didn't help. I'm actually a huge Mike O'Shea fan, and I even like the GM - Kyle Walters. Both are far better than 90% of what we have had here since the Cal Murphy era. 

DM was a 3rd string QB when we won our GC. But he was recruited by us, which means we had the brains in management to find these guys. 

As I said many times, it's more than 'my opinion' here, it's facts. Fact - we have not recruited a #1 QB for the CFL (not necessarily Wpg) since Danny Mac, and fact, we haven't won a GC since we've done that. I said way back in the early 2000's we wouldn't win a GC. until we have. Time is the proving ground. It's now 2018, we still haven't recruited, on our own a bonafide CFL QB, strictly hand me downs from other teams (and as mentioned, AC was one for Montreal so it's not necessarily all that bad but on the other side if they didnt' have him I'm sure Popp/Trestman would have recruited one - they just didn't need to) and we still haven't won a GC.

And that's the other thing, we may win the GC this year yet, with Nichols, who knows. But it may be another 5 years after this before you can prove me wrong, as if say a Streveler becomes a bonafide #1 QB here (or elsewhere) like Danny Mac, I may still be right on the subject. 

It's all I'm saying, it's not meant to be a put down. I know it's coming across like that. I'm just listing facts, that's it. And history - 27 years of it, so far has proven me right. 

Clutch

Let me get this straight. Until the Bombers develop their own QB, they will not win a GC. The GC win therefore hinges on our own QB.
I beg to differ.
   GC winners

   2017- Argos with Ray
       16- Ott with Burris
       15- Edm with Reilly
       14- Cal with Mitchell, their own
       13- Sask with Durant, their own
      
  As I look further back there are far more GC wins with QBs who weren't developed by the winning teams than were. Far more.
   I want the Bombers to develop their own of course but i don't think our GC depends on it.

    84-Winn with Clements
    88- Winn with Salisbury, we brought him in I think
    90- Winn with Burgess
  2 out of 3 of our last GCs were with QBs who we didn't develop.
  
Yep - you got it. Cause we had Danny McManus in the stable, and before him Dieter Brock, and we got Clements for Brock. We signed Dunnigan so we traded McManus to B.C. Salisbury was a fluke - it was our Defence that won that G.C - see, in an 8 team league, it's easy to fluke.

I'm still confused by your stand. I have facts/history on my side. We haven't won a G.C. since 1990. That's a fact. It's also a fact we haven't brought in and developed our own QB since, gee, 1990 (Danny McManus).

Those are facts, look them up. I'm not making this up. So yes, I'm standing by what I said - until we get our own QB and develop him, I don't hold much hope. Every single team goes through dry spells, that's normal. AC was in the US (Las Vegas Posse I believe) then went to Hamilton before going to Montreal and we know what happened there. But Montreal was able to get other QB's.

I agree 100% of what you said about copying Edmonton though - you better believe I wish the bombers could. Just go back to Warren Moon/Tom Wilkenson and move forward - you'll be amazed at how many HOF QB's the Eskies have recruited and developed. Amazed. I keep thinking, every year, the Bombers are due - and every year, since McManus was traded to B.C. - the Bombers fail miserably - and haven't won a Grey Cup. All facts. I'm out - but when we do get a QB and develop him and win a G.C. with him, I promise I'll rehash this with a big smile and an "I told you so" - I just hope I don't have to wait another 25 years to do it :)
 Fair enough, man, but don't leave, stick around. All opinions are needed. You do know your stuff.
Oh I will, I just mean on this subject. As for knowing my stuff I 'think' I know my stuff, but I really know a lot less than I think. That's why I like this forum - no worries on putting me in my place when I need it ;) 

joe




Oh I will, I just mean on this subject. As for knowing my stuff I 'think' I know my stuff, but I really know a lot less than I think. That's why I like this forum - no worries on putting me in my place when I need it ;)
You have to be Danny Mac's neighbour or a relative.

Alex Brink, Joey Elliot, Max Hall, Kevin McDougall, Troy Copp among others. It's not like they have completely ignored scouting for themselves. Lo and behold who is in charge of the scouting? Can it be Danny Mac? Perhaps he is protecting the legacy that you are clinging to.

You say you are a big O'Shea and Walters fan but you are critical of the recruitment process. Be careful criticizing that pair or you will end up sitting with Lyle and myself.

Please give your opinion of the recruitment and development of Liram Hajrullahu and the subsequent tar and feathering along with the apple and a road map. Did we even get anything for him or just let him go for being the scape goat of the year.

Fast forward to Jason Medlock who is so special that he can have his own hand picked snapper and place holder. The Bombers still have not won. Who has the better kicking situation between Hamilton and Winnipeg? Hamilton has a young Canadian that will play for another 5 or more years or possibly another 12. Bombers have Medlock who is a good kicker but expensive and old and an import with a couple of years left if he can find a taker. Medlock is smart and works his deal so the bonus reduces his taxes and now he is really only marginally more expensive than Menard - Briere so of course you go with Medlock. Super place kicker, so so punter, and no quarterback.

More convenient to ignore that one cause it doesn't work for the Kyle Walters smartest guy in the room story except for when O'Shea is in the room.

Times have changed and I for one miss the days of Cal Murphy when the fans of Winnipeg were treated with some respect and appreciation for being a fan. Everything now is about O Shea and how he saved Okpalaugo's mother and so he signed with the Bombers but reality is they paid him so much they can't afford him now and spin another story.

Don't know if you saw the Ottawa vs Mtrl game where Richie Leone made a tackle on a long run back and actually caused a fumble and a turn over. That is an attitude I can cheer for and something you will never see from Medlock. Happened already this year in the Edmonton game where he whiffed once again. That doesn't bother him though. He was in the NFL and has been yelled at before.

In conclusion I am guessing we are agreeing that Walters is not doing a good job building the team. Starts with Wade Miller imo but we can't go there either.

Will add that Drew Willy is looking not that bad for Montreal today. Wish they would have kept Olafioye to help him but not an Alouette fan so it is what it is.

For those thinking the Bombers will be in the thick of it browse some of the other boards. Saw a 5 win max post on the Edmonton board yesterday and avoid Riderfans completely.

Please do humour me on Liram. I am intersted in your opinion. Thank you and good luck on finding the next one.

papazoola

…...Danny Mac got to play in our last Cup win because we were laying a world of hurt on the Schmoes….One of the worst shelackings in Grey Cup history.....50 to 14 or something like that....Danny was thrown into the game at the end, and after we had it salted away....Threw a dart for a td. as I remember One of the reasons were that we wanted everyone on the roster to play in the game so they would have that for their great memories album....Man that memory seems like eons ago

...Yes it's true we haven't developed our own qb....something I hope changes with our recent guys...I'd like to see Ross,Streveler and or Bennett kept around and developed....Will that happen is anyone's guess...

...Wasn't that thrilled with the performance against the Leo's last night.. although they were playing a lot of their starters against what I would say was our second and third team players... It will be interesting to see who we keep as cut down starts today and finishes up on Sun.... Myles White and Seisay are early casualties...I'd like to see White stick around on the pr....the guy as wheels.

Clutch




Oh I will, I just mean on this subject. As for knowing my stuff I 'think' I know my stuff, but I really know a lot less than I think. That's why I like this forum - no worries on putting me in my place when I need it ;)
You have to be Danny Mac's neighbour or a relative.

Alex Brink, Joey Elliot, Max Hall, Kevin McDougall, Troy Copp among others. It's not like they have completely ignored scouting for themselves. Lo and behold who is in charge of the scouting? Can it be Danny Mac? Perhaps he is protecting the legacy that you are clinging to.

You say you are a big O'Shea and Walters fan but you are critical of the recruitment process. Be careful criticizing that pair or you will end up sitting with Lyle and myself.

Please give your opinion of the recruitment and development of Liram Hajrullahu and the subsequent tar and feathering along with the apple and a road map. Did we even get anything for him or just let him go for being the scape goat of the year.

Fast forward to Jason Medlock who is so special that he can have his own hand picked snapper and place holder. The Bombers still have not won. Who has the better kicking situation between Hamilton and Winnipeg? Hamilton has a young Canadian that will play for another 5 or more years or possibly another 12. Bombers have Medlock who is a good kicker but expensive and old and an import with a couple of years left if he can find a taker. Medlock is smart and works his deal so the bonus reduces his taxes and now he is really only marginally more expensive than Menard - Briere so of course you go with Medlock. Super place kicker, so so punter, and no quarterback.

More convenient to ignore that one cause it doesn't work for the Kyle Walters smartest guy in the room story except for when O'Shea is in the room.

Times have changed and I for one miss the days of Cal Murphy when the fans of Winnipeg were treated with some respect and appreciation for being a fan. Everything now is about O Shea and how he saved Okpalaugo's mother and so he signed with the Bombers but reality is they paid him so much they can't afford him now and spin another story.

Don't know if you saw the Ottawa vs Mtrl game where Richie Leone made a tackle on a long run back and actually caused a fumble and a turn over. That is an attitude I can cheer for and something you will never see from Medlock. Happened already this year in the Edmonton game where he whiffed once again. That doesn't bother him though. He was in the NFL and has been yelled at before.

In conclusion I am guessing we are agreeing that Walters is not doing a good job building the team. Starts with Wade Miller imo but we can't go there either.

Will add that Drew Willy is looking not that bad for Montreal today. Wish they would have kept Olafioye to help him but not an Alouette fan so it is what it is.

For those thinking the Bombers will be in the thick of it browse some of the other boards. Saw a 5 win max post on the Edmonton board yesterday and avoid Riderfans completely.

Please do humour me on Liram. I am intersted in your opinion. Thank you and good luck on finding the next one.
Yep Joe - all those failed QB's - Kopp had one good game where we beat SK at home to snap I believe was an 11 game losing streak - he was the toast of the town when he did it. I believe it was his first start,maybe second. We all know how that turned out didn't we.

I'm not saying Walters is Murphy - but IMO he's a lot better than what has been passing for Bomber management in the past 20 some years. It takes a real 'team' effort to be as bad overall as Wpg has been in an 8/9 team league for as long as they have been. 

I'm on your side with Liam, but for whatever reason he got the yips. His death knell was that home game against Edmonton, where he missed 3 extra points and two field goals I believe, with the wind, and Sean Whyte came in and kicked a 52 yarder with no time left against the wind to win it. I think Liam was released a week later - I would have too - but good on him for coming back like he did. 

As for Willy, were you watching the same game I was? Willy looked like Willy, happy feet, no confidence. If his first read is covered he panics and either dumps it off to his relief valve (even it's 2nd and 20 and his relief valve is behind the LOS) or he runs around and takes a sack. I'm still flabbergasted Willy is still employed in the CFL. Mtrl will be the worst team in the league this year, guaranteed. Reason? Because of the other QB's they trotted out - Willy was by far their best one. But Willy is terrible - absolutely brutal as a starting QB. Good on him he's still able to make money at it though lol 

papazoola

…..You should have heard the 'crap' I got thrown at me when I suggested that Willy was wonky and I didn't ever want to see him in bluengold... and that was when he was just second string in Sask.....I was pleasantly surprised when he came to us initially and had what appears to be now, 'fluky success'...He sure proved his worth quickly though (which was what I had thought from the beginning) and the team ditched him...He looks terrible in Mont. and how he is their starter is beyond me...He really is a 'never was' and he's lucky to be drawing a cheque...The fans in Mont. will catch on...…………...someday
 


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