do or die

Need to step back a bit.....to move forward, here.

The Macro.......

Miller has increased community outreach, and marketing.   The game day experience, overall....is much improved.  Walters has rebuilt the OL/DL, (particularly the OL) found a winning QB, and is making strides building depth and Canuck content, through the draft.    Bombers feature all-Canadian management.....and have a coach, in MOS  - that players want to play for.....and that free agents actually will come here to play for, as well.   The Bombers have won 23 games and made the playoffs, the last 2 years.   

Don't even try to compare that, with what went on here, before.

But the fly in the ointment ....is those two painful playoff losses.   Now that this team is competitive.....both expectations and pressure has become higher.   Next year, anything less than a playoff win - will be viewed as total failure.  Which brings me to....

The Micro .....or what needs real improvement, round these parts.

In both playoff losses  - the common denominator has been......major defensive collapse.  Hall has to be held accountable, due to no discernible improvement on D, from last year.   The passive zones, assignment breakdowns, poor tackling, etc, are still with us.    Hard to make a case for his retention, at this point.   

However, Walters and the scouting department really need to step it up in several areas:

1.  Linebackers.   We went most of the year with Hurl ( physical limitations) and K. Knox (no instincts) for most of the year, and it was a disaster, for the most part.

2.  Wide receiver.   The failure to recruit here, simply killed us - especially when Adams went down.   

3.  Defensive backs.  We went young on the left side of the field, and struggled nightly, all year.   Lack of talent?  Lack of coaching?   Bit of both?   Bottom line, we saw the same problems in the 19th game....as there were in the first.

4.  Backup QB.   Yes the Fever is good at short yardage plays.....but he has Do or Die arm strength.   Davis was supposed to be the guy - but as usual, just not enough reps....before facing the moment of truth.

5.  Deadline moves.   We really did not have any.....and yes, pretty tough when you have your injuries starting in Game 15.   But, the Bombers were pretty inert, while other teams were loading up for the stretch run.

So roll up the sleeves, while I break out the gin.


   




Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so."

Bertrand Russell (1872-1970)

papazoola

......Hey Do....I think you should get an application form as well, for a job getting this team back on track...LOL....Kidding aside....very accurate assessment BUT is the Bombers brain trust willing and able to carry some of your suggestions out....I agree with one major take....we have to be better next year, and go further in our Cup quest,  or it ain't gonna be pretty around here
...one of the most integral parts overlooked in conversation....is to hear what\'s NOT being said....Anonymous

DAN38

     I look at it this way. At the end of the year, do I consider it a disappointment. 2016 I was OK with our showing. It was the best for a long time but this year is no better and therefore a Disappointment with a capital D. Bottom line is we did not improve. We still are not a dominant team. We need to reach that plateau. Other teams should fear coming to IGF. I want to have the same problem Calgary has-nothing games at the end of the season !
   We also have to PLAY our Nats more, not just on ST. Look at how Cal and Tor played their Nats in their last games. The Canadians were very obvious in the wins. Both teams use and rely on their homegrown guys, not because they have to but because they are good. They are good because they were given the chance. It's not bad drafting that makes the guys not perform if they don't get the chance. This is on coaching ! If you play Feoli-Guidino as a blocking player for most of the year, can you really expect him to go out and have a 150yard game receiving when our best WR goes down ? A big part of Calgary's success is not WHO they drafted but how they groom them. Huf played for years in this league and knows how to win. Remember ? He plays his Canadians regularly because he knows how crucial it is to success.
Si vis pacem... para bellum

If you think you can't when you can, you won't.
If you think you can when you can't, you just might.

papazoola

.....You're right Dan... Good example..Huf has been in the league a very long time (including being a back-up qb. here at one time)..He's got a great football mind and knows how to first...spot talent...next...bring it along.....We fall short on both counts...It doesn't always fall to O'Shea and Walters though...We're supposed to have 'scouts' that recommend the players...I think it's lacking...It was terrible under Joe Mack but is it any better now...I wonder....seems to be hit and miss 'a lot', most times....

....Walters has called out his friend and coach when he said he did not like the rotation on the D line to cover for an obvious player who was lacking...That would be Hurl.....Holding on to a medical case draft pic in Addison Richards for far too long another example....Waste of time and a roster spot in my opinion... Roc Carmichael ...another bust who was kept on forever...Why???the player wasn't good enough and cost us...Guys like Huf don't do that...If you're not getting the job done...pack it in because you won't be playing for the Stamps....We have a lot of short comings with regard to the handling of players...O'Shea seems to have a blind spot, one that drifts into loyalty beyond the pale....Sure it's great having players who luv playing for their coach but what has been the result...

...I look for positive things this offseason....Better scouting....quality draft pics and have a successful free agency...That's a start and let's hope Mike O continues to improve with a little more experience and decision making...I think we'll be in the thick of things but I want to see an improvement...Our players are getting up there ....we won't have too many more shots at the big prize with this group

One other thing....I hope we get over this penchant of not bringing in other clubs talent when returning from the NFL or released by their clubs in the CFL...Good example Bear Woods...who we should have gone after hard and Thigpen...who doesn't look to shabby in Riderland....We need to have a closer look at possible additions who will help us not look the other way as it seems we do.

Wumper

The Bomber coaching mantra always seems to be "we need to put him in a position to succeed"....
I respect that, thats wise coaching.

However, when they are put there and don't succeed, cut em loose and move on.

Find, draft, trade or scoop but in order to win the big one our Leadership must be all business.
MOS's sometimes blind committment to mediocrity hurts us.

Our MLB is the penultimate example. Most smirk when MOS defends that decision. And he does it again and again.

Roc early on, our D coaching, weak draft picks that stayed too long, great players available but not picked up, all, apparently because MOS "likes the room"......

Well MOS should either sell tickets to "the room" or he must mess with it for the sake of "the field" cause thats all we get to watch.

Illegitimi non carborundum

DAN38

.....You're right Dan... Good example..Huf has been in the league a very long time (including being a back-up qb. here at one time)..He's got a great football mind and knows how to first...spot talent...next...bring it along.....We fall short on both counts...It doesn't always fall to O'Shea and Walters though...We're supposed to have 'scouts' that recommend the players...I think it's lacking...It was terrible under Joe Mack but is it any better now...I wonder....seems to be hit and miss 'a lot', most times....

....Walters has called out his friend and coach when he said he did not like the rotation on the D line to cover for an obvious player who was lacking...That would be Hurl.....Holding on to a medical case draft pic in Addison Richards for far too long another example....Waste of time and a roster spot in my opinion... Roc Carmichael ...another bust who was kept on forever...Why???the player wasn't good enough and cost us...Guys like Huf don't do that...If you're not getting the job done...pack it in because you won't be playing for the Stamps....We have a lot of short comings with regard to the handling of players...O'Shea seems to have a blind spot, one that drifts into loyalty beyond the pale....Sure it's great having players who luv playing for their coach but what has been the result...

...I look for positive things this offseason....Better scouting....quality draft pics and have a successful free agency...That's a start and let's hope Mike O continues to improve with a little more experience and decision making...I think we'll be in the thick of things but I want to see an improvement...Our players are getting up there ....we won't have too many more shots at the big prize with this group

One other thing....I hope we get over this penchant of not bringing in other clubs talent when returning from the NFL or released by their clubs in the CFL...Good example Bear Woods...who we should have gone after hard and Thigpen...who doesn't look to shabby in Riderland....We need to have a closer look at possible additions who will help us not look the other way as it seems we do.
    Right on Papa. I did forget to mention how we do NOT go after guys in FA or even guys let go by other clubs. Many times all that is needed is a different address. Just look at every team's roster to see players that we let go and who are now flourishing. Henoc Muamba is the best player on Sask in my opinion.

Lyle B. Style

.....You're right Dan... Good example..Huf has been in the league a very long time (including being a back-up qb. here at one time)..He's got a great football mind and knows how to first...spot talent...next...bring it along.....We fall short on both counts...It doesn't always fall to O'Shea and Walters though...We're supposed to have 'scouts' that recommend the players...I think it's lacking...It was terrible under Joe Mack but is it any better now...I wonder....seems to be hit and miss 'a lot', most times....

....Walters has called out his friend and coach when he said he did not like the rotation on the D line to cover for an obvious player who was lacking...That would be Hurl.....Holding on to a medical case draft pic in Addison Richards for far too long another example....Waste of time and a roster spot in my opinion... Roc Carmichael ...another bust who was kept on forever...Why???the player wasn't good enough and cost us...Guys like Huf don't do that...If you're not getting the job done...pack it in because you won't be playing for the Stamps....We have a lot of short comings with regard to the handling of players...O'Shea seems to have a blind spot, one that drifts into loyalty beyond the pale....Sure it's great having players who luv playing for their coach but what has been the result...

...I look for positive things this offseason....Better scouting....quality draft pics and have a successful free agency...That's a start and let's hope Mike O continues to improve with a little more experience and decision making...I think we'll be in the thick of things but I want to see an improvement...Our players are getting up there ....we won't have too many more shots at the big prize with this group

One other thing....I hope we get over this penchant of not bringing in other clubs talent when returning from the NFL or released by their clubs in the CFL...Good example Bear Woods...who we should have gone after hard and Thigpen...who doesn't look to shabby in Riderland....We need to have a closer look at possible additions who will help us not look the other way as it seems we do.
   Right on Papa. I did forget to mention how we do NOT go after guys in FA or even guys let go by other clubs. Many times all that is needed is a different address. Just look at every team's roster to see players that we let go and who are now flourishing. Henoc Muamba is the best player on Sask in my opinion.
Muamba is a true monster now. Obviously the most valuable defensive player on the team and a key cog to their future (next 2 or 3 years).
Bombers got real pissed off with him for exiting to the NFL (can't blame him or anyone who thinks they can make NFL money - Henoc actually latched onto a team or two and was a solid spec. teams player)
He might be the best MLB in the CFL now (aside from Solly Bomb Bombs in BC) and his only weakness is not having the nimbleness to defend in passing situations (short intermediate and passes over 20 yds)
Problem in Winnipeg D is twofold - you have a weak and unsound football player (Hurl) rostered only due to citizenship, getting pushed around at will, failing to make tackles when he's all over guys and seldom getting in any kind of licks - BUT more than that you have a coach who finds his feeble play acceptable - sometimes even praiseworthy. (That's akin to current Potus guy saying he's doing a fabulous job and he loves women!)
WAITING FOR A  MIRACLE - 28 YEARS, COUNTING!

papazoola

....Henoc Muamba is history...Good MLB but at 225 grand a year..I think Sask. can keep him...We need to bring in our own find orrrrr make a deal for a monster...Easy to say...hard to do, but there's no other way

DAN38

....Henoc Muamba is history...Good MLB but at 225 grand a year..I think Sask. can keep him...We need to bring in our own find orrrrr make a deal for a monster...Easy to say...hard to do, but there's no other way
    When Henoc was on the Bombers, I thought he was our best player too. 225 is a bit steep. How much are we wasting on Hurl ? Subtract that from 225 and Henoc is a bargain !

do or die

Ok, the Hurl thing.....

Hurl at MLB, and two Americans (Johnson/Nevis) at DT, probably made sense from a ratio point of view....but in reality it was really robbing Peter to pay Paul.   Having K. Knox beside him, simply compounded the problem...

Btw.....if you attached Knox's body to Hurl's brain....you might have something.

Loffler probably played up closer to the box, that any other S in the league - and there was a reason for that. (Hurl/Knox)  Pretty hard to provide over the top help, with that setup.  And both rookies Walker and Alexander could of used all the help they could get.....

As far as MOS's stance on things.....the cover story for Hurl was a bit thick.   The idea that in a base 4-3, the middle linebacker is supposed to just eat up blocks, while somebody else makes the play....is in my mind....complete bunk.

But this is Mike going out on a limb in protecting his players... and it is basically his MO.  Medlock recently stated that it was he, who called the infamous fake punt, on the field, late against BC.   But MOS stepped up and just publicly took the blame on that one.    Players really love this stuff - bottom line....they will run through the wall for him, and more players than before, certainly......want to actually come here and play here. 

But it can certainly drive media and particularly us fans crazy - especially when someone is not getting it done (i.e the Roc) and MOS continues to backs the player publicly....and keep trotting him out there.  He is not going to criticize Walters or the scouting staff ( on lacking the horses at a position) under any circumstance, either.

And putting MOS aside, now......it is on the scouting staff to get us the MLB and wide out that we needed this year, and for that matter the year before.  No excuses desired or accepted.

 

Lyle B. Style

The Bomber coaching mantra always seems to be "we need to put him in a position to succeed"....
I respect that, thats wise coaching.

However, when they are put there and don't succeed, cut em loose and move on.

Find, draft, trade or scoop but in order to win the big one our Leadership must be all business.
MOS's sometimes blind committment to mediocrity hurts us.

Our MLB is the penultimate example. Most smirk when MOS defends that decision. And he does it again and again.

Roc early on, our D coaching, weak draft picks that stayed too long, great players available but not picked up, all, apparently because MOS "likes the room"......

Well MOS should either sell tickets to "the room" or he must mess with it for the sake of "the field" cause thats all we get to watch.
A+ analysis as usual W.

Lots of wishin' goin' down in old bombertown. . .

What makes anyone think the scouting is gonna get better this off-season vs. the last couple? Nothing, to me! Basically the form chart usually holds - guys are working hard on the phones, buying tickets to NFL camps and hold their own repetitive FA camps (free meals for hobos and the odd hobo can showcase their speed before their other shortcomings are revealed! Bomber analyzers obviously only look for hi-lites, not weaknesses. THATS THE BIGGEST WEAKNESS OF OUR ENTIRE SCOUTING ORGANIZATION - - - BUT THEY HAVE TO BRING BODIES TO CAMP - AND WITH A FORGIVING COACH LIKE MIKE MANY OF THE HOBOS ARE GRANTED FORGIVENESS - AND CAN STEAL A YEAR'S SALARY WITH LITTLE EFFORT OR RISK!

joe

Good discussion guys. 

Seems the natives may be getting restless with many personnel issues to be resolved at several key positions.

I would like to see Doug Brown back involved with the Bombers but can see why the boys would not want him. Also hoping to see Andrew Harris as a person who continues on with the organization after his playing days ala a Geroy in BC.

As a fan I would like to see more full disclosure rather than what we have been getting. I believe that starts with the CEO. Seems to me a big part of the agenda is the secrecy related to a superior attitude. 

Being honest and showing respect to the fans is a start to a good relationship. Build our trust and they will get our support. Scoff and treat us like fools and we'll see what happens.

 

Lyle B. Style

Good discussion guys.

Seems the natives may be getting restless with many personnel issues to be resolved at several key positions.

I would like to see Doug Brown back involved with the Bombers but can see why the boys would not want him. Also hoping to see Andrew Harris as a person who continues on with the organization after his playing days ala a Geroy in BC.

As a fan I would like to see more full disclosure rather than what we have been getting. I believe that starts with the CEO. Seems to me a big part of the agenda is the secrecy related to a superior attitude.

Being honest and showing respect to the fans is a start to a good relationship. Build our trust and they will get our support. Scoff and treat us like fools and we'll see what happens.

 
Joe - secrecy has always been a hallmark of this mysterious "community" organization; ever since I started calling for disclosures of management, coaching & board/executive salaries at the turn of the century.

Musta touched a nerve cuz Lyle Bauer threatened me physically and after washing off of direct questions on CBC, CJOB, Free Press, Sun and other media he realized that he could wash off just about any question with any feeble answer - and the media/community would buy it - cuz it SOUNDED SINCERE!

Miller is just carrying on the bunkem. . . . . . and the media - and the bombers immediate community are just as complacent in accepting unacceptable answers.

But when the trough dries out we'll be asked - on faith - to sheckel up with millions!

Bombers talk about transparency but there as far away from transparency as The Trump organization down south!

P.S. 1-Shovel Wad served his early management apprenticeship under his mentor Lord Lyle Bauer, off-seasons when Miller first tried to imbed himself into the organization. I thus suspect he's learned the same kind of fear & loathing of media and curious citizen commentators such as yours truly. He's careful on the outside, especially when the klieg lights are on - but on the inside this is a virulent and hateful man who operates under the cover of darkness!

joe

Thanks for the background Lyle. Didn't know if there was anyone else watching the behind the scene shenanigans. 

It seems to be one of the issues with the community ownership model that abuse of power beyond reproach becomes an accepted practice. 

Like politics, community service should be an act of public service and stewardship and not a self serving opportunity for personal gain. As if that could ever come true.

Can't see any chance that there will be a change in 2018 unless they put some wins together and then they will get extended again. 2019 the pressure will be on. 

Would hope the expectation of improvement is not lost on these boys. Will be interesting to see if they get it.



papazoola



Like politics, community service should be an act of public service and stewardship and not a self serving opportunity for personal gain. As if that could ever come true.


.....You should have bolded that paragraph joe...... Your assessment of the political world and it's absence of self serving interest is quite correct, with regard to your last sentence....Personal gain has always been involved in politics....whether it be monetary or a power agenda that's the motivation...I would like to see that eliminated but unfortunately that seems the way of the world today...Football operations are highly political...matter of fact I think you'll find politics involved in almost all of todays functions...We are at the mercy of it and can only hope that right decision makers are in charge... Competent people making decisions are paramount...Can't eliminate the politics but at least the requirement of a well run organization should be competency...Unfortunately that's not always true.
 


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