wolverine29

   MOS- 4 years-2 playoff games both losses

    Campbell- 4 years-5 playoff games- 2 GC appearances-1 GC


  These kind of stats speak volumes. Whatever the excuses or reasons, they both were hired to do a job. Who is doing it better ?.....Excepting Lyle, there would be next to nothing in the complaint department if MOS had even close to Campbell's results. Maybe MOS can't figure out that not every player is an Ugly Duckling. Some will forever be ugly.
Fair enough.  Campbell's results in the playoffs are really good.  But he only gets to the playoffs because he's in the east.   And if we're honest, he didn't do anything special to get his team into the 2015 Grey Cup game, that was as much Hamilton's brutal play and a miraculous long TD catch and run in the waning moments.  His career regular season won-loss record is sub-.500 over four years with only one winning season.  In the west he'd only made the playoffs once.  Maybe O'Shea is not a good playoff coach.  Call it as you see it.  As I see it, we lost last year by one, this year we played a tough half and fell apart in the second half.  Both times our D fell apart in the second half.  Is that on O'Shea?  Some part of it yes, but really the guy who takes the blame for that IMO Hall and not being able to adjust at the most crucial time. 

So dump O'Shea, who guarantees we get over the playoff win hump?  Your options are basically a bunch of co-ordinators who have never been head coaches so it's a bit of a crapshoot.  Tabbyfan brought up Khari Jones.  Would you want him as a head coach after this year?  How does a team with Jonathan Jennings, Chris Rainey, Jeremiah Johnson, Areceneaux, Burnham, and Chris Williams end up seventh in the CFL in scoring?  They were supposed to be one of the best heading into the season.  

Lyle B. Style

   MOS- 4 years-2 playoff games both losses

    Campbell- 4 years-5 playoff games- 2 GC appearances-1 GC


  These kind of stats speak volumes. Whatever the excuses or reasons, they both were hired to do a job. Who is doing it better ?.....Excepting Lyle, there would be next to nothing in the complaint department if MOS had even close to Campbell's results. Maybe MOS can't figure out that not every player is an Ugly Duckling. Some will forever be ugly.
Fair enough.  Campbell's results in the playoffs are really good.  But he only gets to the playoffs because he's in the east.   And if we're honest, he didn't do anything special to get his team into the 2015 Grey Cup game, that was as much Hamilton's brutal play and a miraculous long TD catch and run in the waning moments.  His career regular season won-loss record is sub-.500 over four years with only one winning season.  In the west he'd only made the playoffs once.  Maybe O'Shea is not a good playoff coach.  Call it as you see it.  As I see it, we lost last year by one, this year we played a tough half and fell apart in the second half.  Both times our D fell apart in the second half.  Is that on O'Shea?  Some part of it yes, but really the guy who takes the blame for that IMO Hall and not being able to adjust at the most crucial time.

So dump O'Shea, who guarantees we get over the playoff win hump?  Your options are basically a bunch of co-ordinators who have never been head coaches so it's a bit of a crapshoot.  Tabbyfan brought up Khari Jones.  Would you want him as a head coach after this year?  How does a team with Jonathan Jennings, Chris Rainey, Jeremiah Johnson, Areceneaux, Burnham, and Chris Williams end up seventh in the CFL in scoring?  They were supposed to be one of the best heading into the season.  
CONSENSUS - The People's Jury has ruled out Khari Jones as head coach in Wpg.

As a matter of fact if Wall-eye (or whoever will be running BC Lions) decides to appoint Mark Washington as the Lions next HC - Khari Jones will be either unemployed as a football coach - or joining TSN as Chris Schultz's replacement!
WAITING FOR A  MIRACLE - 28 YEARS, COUNTING!

DAN38

   MOS- 4 years-2 playoff games both losses

    Campbell- 4 years-5 playoff games- 2 GC appearances-1 GC


  These kind of stats speak volumes. Whatever the excuses or reasons, they both were hired to do a job. Who is doing it better ?.....Excepting Lyle, there would be next to nothing in the complaint department if MOS had even close to Campbell's results. Maybe MOS can't figure out that not every player is an Ugly Duckling. Some will forever be ugly.
Fair enough.  Campbell's results in the playoffs are really good.  But he only gets to the playoffs because he's in the east.   And if we're honest, he didn't do anything special to get his team into the 2015 Grey Cup game, that was as much Hamilton's brutal play and a miraculous long TD catch and run in the waning moments.  His career regular season won-loss record is sub-.500 over four years with only one winning season.  In the west he'd only made the playoffs once.  Maybe O'Shea is not a good playoff coach.  Call it as you see it.  As I see it, we lost last year by one, this year we played a tough half and fell apart in the second half.  Both times our D fell apart in the second half.  Is that on O'Shea?  Some part of it yes, but really the guy who takes the blame for that IMO Hall and not being able to adjust at the most crucial time.

So dump O'Shea, who guarantees we get over the playoff win hump?  Your options are basically a bunch of co-ordinators who have never been head coaches so it's a bit of a crapshoot.  Tabbyfan brought up Khari Jones.  Would you want him as a head coach after this year?  How does a team with Jonathan Jennings, Chris Rainey, Jeremiah Johnson, Areceneaux, Burnham, and Chris Williams end up seventh in the CFL in scoring?  They were supposed to be one of the best heading into the season.  
 I do not want to fire MOS. The improvement is there. I want more !
Si vis pacem... para bellum

papazoola

.....I see we've re-signed two o linemen....Hardrick (a must) and Neufeld (really came on and stayed out of the tub)...Two good signings and I hope it continues....Players lined up at Walter's door, according to one media guy, wanting to sign on for 18'...Good sign but I hope they pull the welcome mat out on Hurl or at least tell him that we have better prospects in the middle and the best we can do is a special teams spot....

.....As far as  O'Shea's future in bluengold Wolverine....I don't want to see him replaced just yet.....I'll give him next year (unless the team tanks early in 18'...then I think we have to make a move to replace him)...Considering what other clubs have done, I think we have/will have/ given O'Shea enough time to take us to the final and beyond....Another failed year or another one and done won't wash with anyone...We are going in the right direction and we are in a tough division BUT we have to find ways to get better at certain positions, including coaching.. Sticking with the status quo is NOT going to get it done...I'm sure Mike knows that better than anyone and we'll see what Walters and him can come up with...It better be an improvement from this year or I believe O'Shea's time in the Peg will have expired.
...one of the most integral parts overlooked in conversation....is to hear what\'s NOT being said....Anonymous

Lyle B. Style

.....I see we've re-signed two o linemen....Hardrick (a must) and Neufeld (really came on and stayed out of the tub)...Two good signings and I hope it continues....Players lined up at Walter's door, according to one media guy, wanting to sign on for 18'...Good sign but I hope they pull the welcome mat out on Hurl or at least tell him that we have better prospects in the middle and the best we can do is a special teams spot....

.....As far as  O'Shea's future in bluengold Wolverine....I don't want to see him replaced just yet.....I'll give him next year (unless the team tanks early in 18'...then I think we have to make a move to replace him)...Considering what other clubs have done, I think we have/will have/ given O'Shea enough time to take us to the final and beyond....Another failed year or another one and done won't wash with anyone...We are going in the right direction and we are in a tough division BUT we have to find ways to get better at certain positions, including coaching.. Sticking with the status quo is NOT going to get it done...I'm sure Mike knows that better than anyone and we'll see what Walters and him can come up with...It better be an improvement from this year or I believe O'Shea's time in the Peg will have expired.
Is a first rd playoff victory an improvement regardless of record?

So if the team goes 9-9, catches the crossover and takes out Ottawa or Hamilton in the ESF, is that an advancement?

Perhaps in the Blue/Gold management office - but it shouldn't be!

Of course 9-9 without a playoff spot - or worse are grounds for dismissal of just about everyone other than Plop, the ballboys & half the medical/training staff.

wolverine29

As this season wore on, the west just got tougher.  Getting Grymes and Walker back helped wake up the Esks.  The Riders steadily improved.  Then again, there's going to be a lot of player movement yet again, so who knows how things will shake out.  Unless we get hit with massive injury woes, a couple of wins below .500 and out of the playoffs amounts to a clear a big step back. Beyond that it's a bit ambiguous as to what amount to a step back as there are too many scenarios.  If we win the division in the regular season but lose the division championship on a couple of points - is that a step back? What if, as Lyle postulated, we finish 4th at 9-9, cross over to the east and become Eastern and Grey cup champs?  Playoffs are a must but beyond that I personally can't speculate.

Lyle B. Style

As this season wore on, the west just got tougher.  Getting Grymes and Walker back helped wake up the Esks.  The Riders steadily improved.  Then again, there's going to be a lot of player movement yet again, so who knows how things will shake out.  Unless we get hit with massive injury woes, a couple of wins below .500 and out of the playoffs amounts to a clear a big step back. Beyond that it's a bit ambiguous as to what amount to a step back as there are too many scenarios.  If we win the division in the regular season but lose the division championship on a couple of points - is that a step back? What if, as Lyle postulated, we finish 4th at 9-9, cross over to the east and become Eastern and Grey cup champs?  Playoffs are a must but beyond that I personally can't speculate.
You hit it on the nose Wolfman. The other teams got better. The bombers declined and were barely capable of fielding a solid roster for the western semi.
Regina got better cuz they worked hard, solidified a good defense, Glenn & Bridge presented a decent combo platter and the WRs started to get back from injury.
Edmonton was a veritable MASH unit much of the season but gradually got most of their guys back (except the MLB) and really out-matched us in most (if not all) areas. Calgary had some early injuries but their deal is building a practice roster of potential starters - NOT SCRUBS. How they do that, I do not know. But they do.
BC had a malfunction at the junction when Lulay went down (after a long rehab). No doubt in my mind Lulay would have given the Lions at least one more W, perhaps 2. Chasing Sask'n for the crossover at the very least.

The Bombers played their cards too close to the vest - rarely reaching out for FA, trade or NFL cut talent. Roc Carmichael, the coach's favourite finally quit on the team cuz he didn't like getting his uniform dirty - why O'Shea liked a non-hitter is beyond me. TJ Thorpe left the team, then Darwin Adams went down - no real replacements for the long game, just inserted some hobos like Washington and Chris Givens. Hurl was having major problems trying to tackle people, obviously not a skill he learned in college. Yet no replacements sought! Just resting on those 10 or 12 wins, the last one basically gifted by the depleted Stampeders!

So long as Mitchell, Reilly, Glenn/Bridge, Jennings remain as western starters we're going to be hard-pressed to match those 12 victories in '18.

tabbyfan

Just remember guys, at least your HC didn't lead you to an 12 losses in a row like KA did in Hamilton with his predictable horrible play calling.  As soon as he leaves we go 4-3 and could have been 6-1.

So, would you rather KA or MOS?

DAN38

Just remember guys, at least your HC didn't lead you to an 12 losses in a row like KA did in Hamilton with his predictable horrible play calling.  As soon as he leaves we go 4-3 and could have been 6-1.

So, would you rather KA or MOS?
    I like KA. If he came here i think things would improve but then he would eventually get canned too. Name of the game. If we fired MOS, it would be nice if KA was available. I just worry about him having a stroke. KA is kinda the reverse of sombre MOS.

Lyle B. Style

Just remember guys, at least your HC didn't lead you to an 12 losses in a row like KA did in Hamilton with his predictable horrible play calling.  As soon as he leaves we go 4-3 and could have been 6-1.

So, would you rather KA or MOS?
   I like KA. If he came here i think things would improve but then he would eventually get canned too. Name of the game. If we fired MOS, it would be nice if KA was available. I just worry about him having a stroke. KA is kinda the reverse of sombre MOS.
I actually think there's a small bonfire burning under O'Shea's stoic demeanour. Basically, the guy was a psycho-Wildman when he ruled the earth as an eastern all-star linebacker. Dirty, vicious, cruel & remorseless - and that's when he tried to be nice.

So he's trying to do the old 180 Watusi - be the calm and stoic sideline sentry - never impuning his players in the media - and hoping like the dickens he can get maximum performance out of some less than stellar guys.

The last two years have been quite and improvement over the 1st two. But he's still not a .500 head coach - probably needs to win his first 3 or 4 next season to just get to .500. He's been a head coach for nearly half a decade - an assistant coach (spec. teams) longer than that.

His tolerance of mediocrity is now legendary. Loyalty and mediocrity should NEVER instersect. But in Peg-Town they often do.

No reason for panic because at least the team acquired a half-decent QB (Nichols) and still have an above average o-line, 2 WRs of good lineage (Adams, Dressler) an exceptionally versatile RB in Harris, an above average scatback in Flanders - and a smattering of quality defenders (Okapologo, Wild, Westerman, Leggett, Randle, etc.)

Just not enough top guys to provide long-term depth.

SPECIFIC CRITICISMS:

1. Richie Hall's dormant defense
2. Slow decline of league's highest paid kicker, Medlock
3. Dismal draft record last 10 yrs
4. Refusal to isolate and bench weak players (Carmichael, Hurl, Walker, Feoli-Guadino, others)
5. Poor half-time adjustments
6. Mediocre clock management
7. Bad decisions in critical situations

Other than above, just peachey. They may even sell more season tickets than last year as The Lemming Factor kicks in . . .

papazoola

......Even the 'lemmings' as you put it Lyle are restless if you read some of the boards....I'd say , with regard to Walter's comments today that we'll be looking at improving the defence and in particular the middle line backing position...He wasn't happy with the big rotation that was going on, just to keep an inferior player on the field...Mikey must have taken note...Also says it will be impossible to keep all of our fa's...With the one year deals now in effect in the league, there will be a plethora of fa's on every club...I hope a couple of key ones get targeted by us in the positions of need...Arceneaux would be a nice addition or Jackson in Mont....Don't know who is available in the middle line backing capacity ...I hope we don't have to depend on recruitment again...That doesn't seem to work out to well for us sometimes...

Lyle B. Style

As Papa so aptly points out - recruitment seems to be our enemy - not our friend!

After Milton Stegall, who's the last great WR we've recruited? (Bobby Gorgeous?)

After Ty Jones, Greg Battle, Aaron, Wild West the best lb?

We've actually brought in some good wide receivers like the hall of famer who ended up in BC after a year or two in Winnipeg. The big kid on Edmonton's roster (#4) had some eyesight problems when in Winnipeg - but fixed it real quick after heading to Edmonton.

Heck, even Old Jovon Johnson is still playing playoff football - and we ain't!

Joe Mack & Brendan Taman were each capable of bringing in the odd great player - but we usually overpaid and cut them loose when unhappiness set in. Neither Taman nor Mack were capable of filling a complete roster sheet - usually they back-filled with hobos and other team's cuts or partially injured guys. Taman had no standing in U.S. colleges - often being confused as the pizza delivery boy - so he asked Old Dave Ritchie to tag along - for added credibility, as Taman had zero to none down south.

Mack was seen as a football outsider who had limited success in the NFL - his CFL drafting record was pretty atrocious (both north & south) but he was Cal Murphy's bird dog over 30 years back, so that old coot Paul Robson coughed up his name when the bomber 1st aiders (salvage team in management) came a askin'

Bomber1


  I want Lyle B. Style to be coach of the Bombers and run the team office to. He's so smart and has all the answers.  I'm sure he can turn this team into a winner with his positive attitude. LMAO  ::)

papazoola


  I want Lyle B. Style to be coach of the Bombers and run the team office to. He's so smart and has all the answers.  I'm sure he can turn this team into a winner with his positive attitude. LMAO  ::)
.....So when does Lyle's application go out.... ::)

Lyle B. Style

Natezilla scheduled for his 2nd interview with Wadzilla.

Should be interesting . . . . . the security detail has not yet arrived
 


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