Ho Hum Another Fine

Re: Ho Hum Another Fine

by bowl450 » Mon May 01, 2017 9:49 pm

thanks Depop,
talk about timing with negative news, I still cant believe that their is no witch hunting going on as with the mini camp there was nothing but positive news coming and then BOOM we get fined ?

can you shed some light on to the 2 infractions that the Riders were dinged for on the junior player and the suspended player ?
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Re: Ho Hum Another Fine

by depopulationINC » Mon May 01, 2017 11:57 pm

bowl450 wrote:thanks Depop,
talk about timing with negative news, I still cant believe that their is no witch hunting going on as with the mini camp there was nothing but positive news coming and then BOOM we get fined ?

can you shed some light on to the 2 infractions that the Riders were dinged for on the junior player and the suspended player ?


Sammy Brown and Amobi Okoye were suspended.
Okoye was the one they brought in that they brought in that was an NFL standout but had sesuires and was put into a medically induced coma...brought him in on the suspended list....I think it was suspended because not medically fit...but they worked him out while he was getting his physical (a very thorough one) and viewed it as part of that process (which IMO is understandable, but technically he has to pass the physical then be taken off the suspended list before he can work out. Mistake...sure...but not a biggy really and I think that is a fine that you can say "yeah, our bad" and be good with it.
Sammy Brown I don't know the story on for sure...I will ask when I get the chance. I believe he had technical issues reporting and was put on the suspended list while making his way to camp...he showed, they worked him then released him...it is just something that is coming to mind for whatever reason. If I am recalling correctly then it is a matter of not being an arsehat with paperwork....I would assume that fell on O'Day as my understanding is he dealt with a lot of that stuff around camp time, could have been Murphy, very unlikely Jones...kinda got the impression that they were like 'lets get the paperwork filed' and then worked him out but it was not filed...any way you look at it I am 99% sure it was poor administration. I remember he was officially unsuspended and then turned on the same day...assuming they were late on the paperwork.
Both of those guys likely did their reps with the roster fiasco but this was a technicality to nail them a bit harder...could be wrong...might be entirely separate....way way in the past and in that time-frame anyways...it is not like this was mid-season....it was well before he got slapped and said he would correct things so I am prone to lump it all together in some fashion.

I am assuming the Jr was Jack Archelaus. Henry and Grondin are the only others that would come to mind...but pretty certain they were fine. 99.9% confident it was Jack Archelaus though. I am not super familiar with the territorial rights...but he would have fallen under them I am pretty certain.

That one is bad...they Fd up there for sure...not sure how you can make that mistake. I know it is a rule and you have to play within it but I have talked about it before...it is a brutal rule. They need to amend that in a bad way. A player should not be restricted from playing just because his local team hasn't picked him up...that is ridiculous. If a team wants to bring a player on they should be able to sign them and the territorial team should have 72 hours to match the offer. It is a brutal rule that only hampers finding more hidden gems....that helps nobody....most importantly the potential player.
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Re: Ho Hum Another Fine

by JimmytheGreek » Tue May 02, 2017 8:37 am

The thing is though depop is these rules just didn't pop up over night so the team couldn't have known about them, so how come with Jones, Murphy, etc also not new to the CFL do they not know about them? Sure you can say this rule is stupid or should be changed or that one is no big deal but they are rules and other teams aren't doing it so why are we?

This whole thing of a fine here and a fine there while they may not seem critical, they do start adding up quickly. Yeah some say we can afford the fines so no biggie but can we ? Last year was not a great year financially and I doubt 2015 was either so just squanderng away money on fines at the rate they are is going to hurt the team. It is also hurting the teams image and make us look very unprofessional which is never a good thing.

Bottom line is it needs to stop and stop now. IF they are unsure about something they should contact the league and get clarification before proceeding. If they find out what they plan on doing is not within the rules and do it anyways then someone needs to pay for it. This can not continue on as it has been without reprocussions to someone. Do it by the book or pay the consequences.
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Re: Ho Hum Another Fine

by depopulationINC » Tue May 02, 2017 9:40 am

JimmytheGreek wrote:The thing is though depop is these rules just didn't pop up over night so the team couldn't have known about them, so how come with Jones, Murphy, etc also not new to the CFL do they not know about them? Sure you can say this rule is stupid or should be changed or that one is no big deal but they are rules and other teams aren't doing it so why are we?

This whole thing of a fine here and a fine there while they may not seem critical, they do start adding up quickly. Yeah some say we can afford the fines so no biggie but can we ? Last year was not a great year financially and I doubt 2015 was either so just squanderng away money on fines at the rate they are is going to hurt the team. It is also hurting the teams image and make us look very unprofessional which is never a good thing.

Bottom line is it needs to stop and stop now. IF they are unsure about something they should contact the league and get clarification before proceeding. If they find out what they plan on doing is not within the rules and do it anyways then someone needs to pay for it. This can not continue on as it has been without reprocussions to someone. Do it by the book or pay the consequences.



The Jr thing I give you...like I said there is no excuses for something like that even if I think the way the rule is laid out is ridiculous. I don't really care too much about the others. What concerns me is that they got this one and then tried to hold a camp in Montreal....that to me is far more concerning....granted it sounds as if nothing was known about that player issue/fine until after they tried that. And I still disagree with the premise of not being able to have a tryout in another territory...only thing protected under those rights is Jr players...there are others that could attend (including many Americans in a place like Montreal)

The Okoye was a "oh crap" thing...I can understand that mistake and attribute it to learning a lesson. I can totally understand in that situation why they would consider seeing the player in action a fair part of evaluating medical condition / completing the physical....ffs it was at football that the events went down that led the man to be in a coma...I get the stress test entirely. Was that okay with the league...no,....but I can entirely see both points of view on that one....definitely some grey area but one that I think most GMs if not every would have been comfortable working him out under in the past. because it was part of assessing his overall condition medically/physically when taking his past into consideration I can 100% stand by the decision to press him will suspended awaiting medical...it is a matter of working him out under liability vs no liability. I have a hard time not understanding and siding with that decision

Brown was an administration f up...not intention. An issue...of course....something that was hopefully immediately addressed internally so that there is clarity moving forward. I would imagine these errors are actually somewhat common, the Riders just happened to be getting an intense audit so got pinned for it. Anyone who says that they have an administration job and has not made an error like this is lying....the goal is simply to minimize them and they likely have or the audit would have turned up more.
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Re: Ho Hum Another Fine

by HfxTC » Thu May 04, 2017 12:10 am

Its not weak sauce. There is precedent, so much precedent with Jones operating a la Don Matthews. He invited Tim Tebow who at the time had been on the Als neg list for years to come and "visit his Florida mini-camp while he was in Edmonton. Look it up. Dig :wink:
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Re: Ho Hum Another Fine

by Preisst » Fri May 05, 2017 12:11 am

HfxTC wrote:Its not weak sauce. There is precedent, so much precedent with Jones operating a la Don Matthews. He invited Tim Tebow who at the time had been on the Als neg list for years to come and "visit his Florida mini-camp while he was in Edmonton. Look it up. Dig :wink:


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Re: Ho Hum Another Fine

by depopulationINC » Fri May 05, 2017 2:49 am

HfxTC wrote:Its not weak sauce. There is precedent, so much precedent with Jones operating a la Don Matthews. He invited Tim Tebow who at the time had been on the Als neg list for years to come and "visit his Florida mini-camp while he was in Edmonton. Look it up. Dig :wink:


And? Did he negotiate with him? What is your point?

You can invite any player you want to attend something like that. They can not participate nor negotiate...but they can attend. Now why do that? To talk in general. To see if they have interest in the CFL in general. To show them your work environment and let them brew their own ideas. Maybe they ask some questions and you answer what you can. Maybe they walk away and decide to give the CFL a boo. Maybe they decide they want to play for YOU and find out who has them listed and ask to get off of the list....maybe they demand a contact and force their hand.

pushing the envelope...it is a good thing.
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Re: Ho Hum Another Fine

by HfxTC » Fri May 05, 2017 5:30 pm

Seriously ???
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Re: Ho Hum Another Fine

by depopulationINC » Fri May 05, 2017 7:44 pm

HfxTC wrote:Seriously ???



You are the one suggesting that there was tampering with zero evidence...some people prefer giving the benefit of doubt when there is nothing to back it up and the league has had the opportunity to investigate a similar supposed tampering situation with another QB and have been unable to find anything to substantiate that....and you know darned well they would be all over it if there was a shred to substantiate it. And no...the situation with the Jr player was not remotely the same....and no this is not because it is Jones nor because it is the Riders...you will see that my stance has generally been pretty consistent no matter where it unfolds with controversies unless I had more to go on (which I often do have a bit more info than a lot of people). I guess some people stay more neutral until there are actual facts against someone on the table and others need to kick and scream and cry foul no matter what. If I was a GM I would have zero hesitation in extending olive branches to players in this fashion, and I can most definitely assure you I would not infringe upon the tampering rule...always good to give a high profile player good impressions because it may effect them and steer them your way in the future and it is a 100% assurance that if they like what they see that will rub off on other players along the way as well. You do realize that Tebow was with ESPN and around the NCAA players lots and that piles of these kids would look up to him as a positive example and that they would want to talk to him, thus he would have good insight on some under the radar players right? You do actually realize that higher profile players will get asked for advice by players coming up and that if they like what one system is doing that might say "let me put you in contact with so and so"...you do realize this is how networking and fostering contacts works right? Or do you just assume they go to the yellow pages and look up "football contacts"

So I retort back to you, seriously?
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