No news

Re: No news

by depopulationINC » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:00 am

ed ohmnes wrote:No I would be quite happy if they let jones go. He's getting paid far to much anyways. For a cfl team to pay a coach that much, it seem like an awfull lot


If you don't like him you don't like him...that is fin and understandable
they pay is a weak argument though...you break that up by hat he wears and they are actually saving a lot of money.
I do believe he should wear less hats though...DC specifically...but he has indicated that would probably happen after a couple of seasons...presumably once he has things where he is happy handing over the keys.
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Re: No news

by JimmytheGreek » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:33 am

depopulationINC wrote:
ed ohmnes wrote:No I would be quite happy if they let jones go. He's getting paid far to much anyways. For a cfl team to pay a coach that much, it seem like an awfull lot


If you don't like him you don't like him...that is fin and understandable
they pay is a weak argument though...you break that up by hat he wears and they are actually saving a lot of money.
I do believe he should wear less hats though...DC specifically...but he has indicated that would probably happen after a couple of seasons...presumably once he has things where he is happy handing over the keys.


He never should have been made VP either. Why have these positions or titles and then have the same guy doing all of them? Being seperate positions with different people allows for check and balances. Now it's a one man show, it's not like Jones the VP is going to question a decision by Jones the GM, HC or DC . No real experinces at GM or VP and yet he does both. I would like to see Murph take over VP and hire a DC let Jones concentrate on GM and HC.
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Re: No news

by HfxTC » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:08 am

depopulationINC wrote:
ed ohmnes wrote:No I would be quite happy if they let jones go. He's getting paid far to much anyways. For a cfl team to pay a coach that much, it seem like an awfull lot


If you don't like him you don't like him...that is fin and understandable
they pay is a weak argument though...you break that up by hat he wears and they are actually saving a lot of money.
I do believe he should wear less hats though...DC specifically...but he has indicated that would probably happen after a couple of seasons...presumably once he has things where he is happy handing over the keys.


Come on now. With Taman and Chamblin on the books sitting at home for two and a half years plus Jones rumored salary and his hires. This is the most expensive coaching staff in the CFL in decades if not ever.
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Re: No news

by nowhereman » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:17 pm

HfxTC wrote:
Come on now. With Taman and Chamblin on the books sitting at home for two and a half years plus Jones rumored salary and his hires. This is the most expensive coaching staff in the CFL in decades if not ever.

Taman and Chamblin's salaries are there no matter what the current situation or who currently occupies the positions and what their salaries are, can't change that (Taman and Chamblin). The point is that Jones's salary, when broken down to the individual roles, is less than if you had individuals in each of those positions and paid them market value, not the collective cost of everything.
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Re: No news

by HfxTC » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:23 pm

That's simply not true. He's got two high paid assistants in O'Day and Murphy.
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Re: No news

by nowhereman » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:02 pm

HfxTC wrote:That's simply not true. He's got two high paid assistants in O'Day and Murphy.

It's true according to what you said (and all we're talking about are Taman's, Chamblin's and Jones's salaries)

HfxTC wrote:HfxTC wrote:

Come on now. With Taman and Chamblin on the books sitting at home for two and a half years plus Jones rumored salary and his hires. This is the most expensive coaching staff in the CFL in decades if not ever.


Taman and Chamblin are not O'Day and Murphy. O'Day and Murphy don't occcupy the same position(s) Jones has (O'Day was there when Taman and Chamblin were there, only addition was Murphy). Not sure anybody can say for certain what the entire coaching staff is making (O'Day and Murph are not "coaching staff", they're front office "football operations")
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Re: No news

by ed ohmnes » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:39 pm

Well how much does Wally buono make, or huff in Calgary. I don't know , can that help to make a comparison
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Re: No news

by depopulationINC » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:31 pm

ed ohmnes wrote:Well how much does Wally buono make, or huff in Calgary. I don't know , can that help to make a comparison


Wally was at 500+ a few years ago. Huff was at 500...not sure now that he dropped the HC role. Jones is 500 (ish) with potential incentives to bring him over 700. Safe to say he didn't meat all of his incentives last season...so he cost less that CC and BT with an extra title
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Re: No news

by depopulationINC » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:38 pm

JimmytheGreek wrote:
depopulationINC wrote:
ed ohmnes wrote:No I would be quite happy if they let jones go. He's getting paid far to much anyways. For a cfl team to pay a coach that much, it seem like an awfull lot


If you don't like him you don't like him...that is fin and understandable
they pay is a weak argument though...you break that up by hat he wears and they are actually saving a lot of money.
I do believe he should wear less hats though...DC specifically...but he has indicated that would probably happen after a couple of seasons...presumably once he has things where he is happy handing over the keys.


He never should have been made VP either. Why have these positions or titles and then have the same guy doing all of them? Being seperate positions with different people allows for check and balances. Now it's a one man show, it's not like Jones the VP is going to question a decision by Jones the GM, HC or DC . No real experinces at GM or VP and yet he does both. I would like to see Murph take over VP and hire a DC let Jones concentrate on GM and HC.


so you are saying Huf and Wally are failures? Seems to work well there.

this has been talked about on here before...Reynolds did a systematic approach to what type of people he wanted in there...go figure as an accountant lol....he took I think it was 3 decades of stats and the best combination was a scenario was GM/HC. the combination they wanted there were only a few potential candidates for it...Huf was also one of them and was approached but passed. If you really want I believe I posted a video to it in an old thread on Jones...it was a very interesting interview on the process.

the simple fact is that when you give one person the ability to execute their vision you get swift results...what those results end up being takes a bit of time to see.
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Re: No news

by JimmytheGreek » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:31 pm

Wally or Huff never held 4 positions at one time as far as I know. Huff was HC and GM and perhaps OC at one time but even that didn't last long. As far I know while he was an active coach he never was VP GM HC and a coordinator and neither was Wally. There probably was a couple of good reasons for that, and that is yes spreading one person over too many positions something is going to be short changed. Second one is probably to have another decision maker so it's not just one person's decision.
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Re: No news

by depopulationINC » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:37 pm

JimmytheGreek wrote:Wally or Huff never held 4 positions at one time as far as I know. Huff was HC and GM and perhaps OC at one time but even that didn't last long. As far I know while he was an active coach he never was VP GM HC and a coordinator and neither was Wally. There probably was a couple of good reasons for that, and that is yes spreading one person over too many positions something is going to be short changed. Second one is probably to have another decision maker so it's not just one person's decision.


Huff was GM/HC/OC...Wally was GM/HC/DC(or at least co) and is actually VPFO as well and has been for a number of years....that was the point...so yes.
VP duties are largely handled by Oday and GM duties are largely handled by Murphy...both with oversight and direct by one person who also plays an active part in them...personally I like that the Gm and VPFO and despite what you want to think he is known around the office for being very open to peoples opinions and ideas....so no...he is not going to get twisted in the face of someone else's opinion more than most and welcomes their input...and that goes beyond immediate staff. He does however have demanding expectations and when a decision is made it is made....part of the mass exodus of training staff revolved around that...he set clear expectations surrounding off-season training and essentially none of that had been started because attention had shifted to the ice.
His VP duties are really not much more than giving final thumbs up on things and passing out delegation around the office...which the GM does not do...It should actually be one position. things like setting up OTAs, travel, guiding video staff, equipment managers, office support staff, trainers...that is the VP role...and Oday does most of it under his direction. There are often a lot of tensions between a VPFO and a GM and at the end of the day all the VPFO is doing is directing resources that in the end the GM utilizes...it only makes sense to combine the roles unless you find 2 people who are on the same page to a scary degree.
During the season almost all GM duties are handled by Murphy with of course collaboration with Jones and Oday does of course participate in them as well.

so really...the VP thing is not really a concern if you actually step back to understand what that role does. The GM/HC is zero issue and a very very good thing in the off-season but does have some downside during the season, but having an experienced guy like Murphy there really alleviates that. If he did not have him and then Oday atop of that I might agree on some level. The DC thing has to go...I have said before I don't like him wearing that hat long term and that I felt he was a great prep HC but a poor gameday HC...and I think that hat is a part of the problem for him. All that said he said from day one that he only intends to be DC for a couple of years....so it sounds like he wants to get things where he is happy D wise and put the turmoil of that rebuild on him then work someone in there for the future...which I think is fine. I would think in 2018 at some point there will be a DC....I am hoping it might be Thorpe....which would be awesome. I would make him the top paid coordinator in the league if it took it to get him over...but if the Argos tank he is likely HC there.



On a side note....supposed to be a very good announcement player wise right away....huge for the D and assuming it is a done deal should make about every Rider fan happy for a bit :D
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Re: No news

by JimmytheGreek » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:18 am

If you referring to Jefferson then yeah I heard that rumor too. IF that is what your hinting at yes he would be a good resigning. Just hope he can play qb too though or it won't matter who we sign on D as they will be all gassed by the end of the first half being on the field all the time.
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Re: No news

by depopulationINC » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:49 am

JimmytheGreek wrote:If you referring to Jefferson then yeah I heard that rumor too. IF that is what your hinting at yes he would be a good resigning. Just hope he can play qb too though or it won't matter who we sign on D as they will be all gassed by the end of the first half being on the field all the time.



because DD is the only possible scenario for a hope of a win....oi

I know no other QB has ever come in and won without a plethora of experience and that Durant was a seasoned vet the day he was signed...as was Bo...as was Lulay...as was Reilly...as was Ray...but maybe there is hope that they will find someone who excelled in college ball and is ready to bring it to the next level...first time for everything right? no...you are right...all hope is lost....don't bother even watching. Elite QBs don't come along every day, but they do come along. You also don't need an elite QB out of the gate...you need a guy who can start at 55%+ passing and improve to 65 in time but progress while not turning the ball over a lot. Short passing game is a plus but he needs to have arm strength to build upon from there. He needs to be willing to do the homework because practice times are now to short. They have one QB that for sure meets those requirements now...possibly 2. Time will tell if they progress
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Re: No news

by StormRider1 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:38 am

Since we won the cup, as of 2014 due to injury, this team has been on a losing streak. 3 years now, so without a QB to put points on the board, this will make 4 years of losing, how long do you think it will take before the fans get fed up and stop attending games, I remember not that far back how this losing club almost went extinct. Jones seems to think Defense wins games, but without the O putting points on the board, we will continue to lose. And I am telling you now, if this trend continues, this club stands to loss everything. I still say Jones is not the answer and has done nothing short of destroying our team. Like I said before cheap players make for cheap results!! Losing DD was IMO a huge mistake. Do we need a new up and coming QB... hell yes, but we can't take much more of the losing streak either. JMO
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Re: No news

by depopulationINC » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:25 pm

StormRider1 wrote:Since we won the cup, as of 2014 due to injury, this team has been on a losing streak. 3 years now, so without a QB to put points on the board, this will make 4 years of losing, how long do you think it will take before the fans get fed up and stop attending games, I remember not that far back how this losing club almost went extinct. Jones seems to think Defense wins games, but without the O putting points on the board, we will continue to lose. And I am telling you now, if this trend continues, this club stands to loss everything. I still say Jones is not the answer and has done nothing short of destroying our team. Like I said before cheap players make for cheap results!! Losing DD was IMO a huge mistake. Do we need a new up and coming QB... hell yes, but we can't take much more of the losing streak either. JMO


IMO the biggest reason this club almost went extinct was they did not have the resources to compete with bigger markets. Since the SMS started getting enforced the big markets have shrunken in strength and the smaller ones can compete.

2014 started off very well actually at 7 - 2 after 9 I believe ...but agree with your point. That said...a lot of people are writing this season off already because there is no QB when they have not even given the team a chance to see if they have one. People may see a young QB start and go "ok, give this kid some time, he might have something" or he may be a total bust...inwhich case then I get the flacking...but we are not there yet. If that happens then perhaps a vet comes in...but more likely they pay for a guy like Franklin. Personally I think they already have a guy on the roster who has a respectable chance of becoming a #1 QB....I also think there is another guy coming if things have in fact been unofficially agreed upon...nothing official can happen for another 4 months.

I look at Lulay walking into the starting spot with BC...nominal experience, immediate success
Bo... walking into the starting spot with the Stamps...nominal experience, immediate success
Reilly... walking into the starting spot with Esks...nominal experience, immediate success
Guys coming in and getting the reps and starting out above the curve happens....people are saying there is no proven vet so there is no hope...it is simply not true. Don't get me wrong...I would still rather have DD (I still wouldn't have given him 200k though)....but I also see there is not yet a reason to say the team failed filling the spot because the season has not even started. We are likely going to see a young QB open the season...if he starts respectably it is a good sign for the future on what is already a pretty young team.
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