Franklin starting today...

Re: Franklin starting today...

by depopulationINC » Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:06 pm

JimmytheGreek wrote:It may have contributed to their success but I don't recall either Wally or Huff mismanaging cap or money like Jones has either. Jones is a charlatan, a fraud, a snake in the grass, all the " gosh and shucks I'm just a blue collar guy" and "small town boy" song and dance is just a front for what he really is. In my opinion he is a power hungry, back stabbing, douche bag and that is being a kind description of what I really think he is. He had no intention of signing Darian back and instead of being truthful he just makes an offer that he knows full well that Darian won't accept and then stands there all innocent and makes a statement to the media that it was a very fair offer. For a guy that doesn't like to discuss contracts in public he sure had no issue with down playing and to the point of insulting Darian and his accomplishments in the media. That is doing things "behind closed doors"? Nope he has stoop to such a low level of all but saying Darian is an average qb at best and can only do well with very good players surrounding him. Not only is it not true but it borderlines being slanderous to Darian's abilities. Is this the kind of character that we want leading our team? A man that belittles the accomplishments or abilities of one of the great players here? Jones points to Darian having only won one cup as a starter but was it Darian's fault that we had too many men on the field? Was it Darian's doing that we had a very good lead on Montreal and the defense just folded? Of course it wasn't and it is playing once again silly bugger bending the situation to suit his purpose.

Lets think about this which of course Jones does not have the intelligence to do, how many FA's are going to sign here after seeing an icon like Darian get this kind of treatment? What kind of message does it send to the players that are on the team? Yeah well done Jones your really making a good impression and I'm sure no one is paying attention to how your conducting yourself.

I will admit he almost had me convinced he wanted to keep Darian and he respected him as a player especially as it has been pointed out that Jones could have traded Darian and got some good assets. Since he didn't when he had a golden opportunity to do so logic would tend one to think this would be evidence to support that theory. Jones though I think was playing everyone for fools and yes like I said I was buying it too for the most part. Instead I think it was all a rouse to give that impression and all the while it was not his intentions. Like I said Jones is a snake in the grass and a schemer and here is why I feel that way. So you know that Darian is very popular with the fans and there is going to be some heat from them if you come out and say I want to get rid of him. Instead you put on a good act and make it look like you do want to keep him, even though it would be better for the team to be honest and have gotten something for Darian in a trade you instead just throw that opportunity away all for the sake of the charade you are pulling.

This is where the BOD should step in and call him on this. This is not the actions of a man that has the team's best interests at heart if he did he would have traded Darian and got some picks or players or both. Instead we will get nothing and Jones will have accomplished what he wanted anyways at the team's expense.

I wouldn't be surprised that he signed Roosevelt as trade bait to the Eskimos for Franklin. I trust nothing that this man will do anymore and for very good reasons.


"he is a power hungry, back stabbing, douche bag" and yet his staff followed him? seems legit...i guess lol

"He had no intention of signing Darian back and instead of being truthful " yup...if there is one thing we know it is that Jones highly values public image...right? wait...he doesn't put much into at all....so what exactly is the reasoning he would not trade him when an offer was on the table again? Seems legit...I guess

"For a guy that doesn't like to discuss contracts in public he sure had no issue with down playing and to the point of insulting Darian and his accomplishments in the media." yup...not cool...stupid move. However...what he stated was not inaccurate....still should not have been said.

"A man that belittles the accomplishments or abilities of one of the great players here" He never belittled anything . DD has been "moderately successful" in his time here...unless you consider a nearly 500 record a whopping success. no...it is far from all being on DD....he has been a warrior and is a big reason for making it to 3 GCs in a 5 year span...but nothing he says is actually wrong...he just didn't sing DD praises because they are in negotiations.....that is normal. Still...yes, he should have said nothing.

"Darian's fault" on the too many men? And here I thought it was a team game...yeah..DD did enough to win that game and blame can not be put on him...but wins are still wins and losses are still losses. there have been many great players who's legacies have been marred by championship records...doesn't matter if it is on them or not.

"Lets think about this which of course Jones does not have the intelligence to do, how many FA's are going to sign here after seeing an icon like Darian get this kind of treatment? What kind of message does it send to the players that are on the team? Yeah well done Jones your really making a good impression and I'm sure no one is paying attention to how your conducting yourself. "
this is just ridiculous. you have extreme tunnel vision and can not see that there are things outside of immediate line of sight. I would love to see DD back as much as most but you can not accept that there is more to it than simply signing him or not nor that players understand the business side of things...much better than you can accept them clearly. A 35 year old QB who is a fabulous leader but is in his decline...sorry...no way around that. Still capable of winning...but his best days are likely behind him.
Who is going to offer him more than Jones? The only candidates in the conversation are Toronto, Montreal and Winnipeg. Montreal likely sticks with Adams as #1 and might match Jones' offer...the Popp splash is gone. If SM is still around Willy is his man...he can not force a trade of their first rounder and sing praises on Willy and expect to keep his job if Willy is dumped...he knows that and they can not afford DD with Willy around. If Nichols does well this weekend they pretty much need to re-ink him...that leaves DD at less than Jones' offer.
That is a whole lot of stars aligning for DD to make more...seems to me that Jones' is making a VERY "intelligent" play based on understanding the market....even if I don't agree with it.

The BOD is NOT going to step in here. Only way it costs him should DD not be back is if they tank in 2017...and even then it depends on how they might be progressing with a new QB...the board has long term in mind...not win now which is what they just fired and not on fan sentiment forcing decisions which has been a contributor to decades of ineptness.
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Re: Franklin starting today...

by JimmytheGreek » Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:22 pm

So I will ask you this depop. What conclusion can you come to when Jones had an opportunity to improve the team by trading Darian when he could have if he was going to negotiate this way knowing this is all but the kiss of death to any deal getting done with Darian, but instead he does nothing and we will get nothing when Darian walks? How can you justify or defend this type of action? I'm pretty sure you also said if Jones lets Darian walk when we could have traded him and got assets that this was poor management and the board should fire Jones. Did you have a change of heart? If so why?

I also said that while what Jones had brought up about Darian was technically true everyone knows it isn't the whole truth and so does Jones but he chose to demean or belittle Darian in the media trying to justify his offer. That is all right too and part of the negotiation business? Where is the " oh I prefer to do things behind closed doors" that Jones was telling everyone ? Sure seems like that was also not true.

Again should Jones take a pay cut too for his wins record this year? I mean if your going to say that a player is not worth x amount of dollars because of it then should that also not fall on the guy that is calling the shots on the field and off the field also? You can't have it both ways and yet that is what Jones is saying. He says the team has to stick to a budget and yet he himself P***** away far more dollars then anyone and got nothing,nothing in return but that is all right?

Yes I am on Darian's side and for all he has done throughout his career here that is my choice but even taking that out of the equation I look at what Jones says and then what he does and they are more often the opposite of each other. This does not build my trust in a man nor give me the confidence that he is doing the best thing for the team. So far I would say with all the mistakes on the field and off of it that he has made then I would hope that many fans would have the same issues.

It is one thing to support new management if they show solid results but that isn't the case here when you look at the whole picture is it? 5-13 record,wasting money, being fined by the league, bringing in very questionable character players, bringing in a 100 players in a season and probably 5- 10 positive results. These are also not exactly glowing recommendations to continue on the same path. Lets see we brought in Cox, Gainey, Holley, Edwards (Amanti,) Muamba, Jefferson. That is 6 players I can think of as keepers. 6 out a 100. 6% of all the players we brought in. Fine I may have missed one or two so lets say 10, 10% efficiency is impressive I must say. Jones wants to talk numbers and pay players accordingly then he probably should take an 90% cut in his wage. If he doesn't like it then he should walk. Numbers are numbers and that is what Jones is basing his decisions on then he should be judged the same.

Jones admitted that the team should be graded as an F so this is what we are paying him all that money for? We can get results like that at a much cheaper price. Jones is responsible for the teams so that means he is also a F grade. This is one thing I can agree on with him. He is an F and F is for fowled up plus a few other things . He has been that in flying colors.
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Re: Franklin starting today...

by depopulationINC » Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:07 pm

JimmytheGreek wrote:So I will ask you this depop. What conclusion can you come to when Jones had an opportunity to improve the team by trading Darian when he could have if he was going to negotiate this way knowing this is all but the kiss of death to any deal getting done with Darian, but instead he does nothing and we will get nothing when Darian walks? How can you justify or defend this type of action? I'm pretty sure you also said if Jones lets Darian walk when we could have traded him and got assets that this was poor management and the board should fire Jones. Did you have a change of heart? If so why?

I also said that while what Jones had brought up about Darian was technically true everyone knows it isn't the whole truth and so does Jones but he chose to demean or belittle Darian in the media trying to justify his offer. That is all right too and part of the negotiation business? Where is the " oh I prefer to do things behind closed doors" that Jones was telling everyone ? Sure seems like that was also not true.

Again should Jones take a pay cut too for his wins record this year? I mean if your going to say that a player is not worth x amount of dollars because of it then should that also not fall on the guy that is calling the shots on the field and off the field also? You can't have it both ways and yet that is what Jones is saying. He says the team has to stick to a budget and yet he himself P***** away far more dollars then anyone and got nothing,nothing in return but that is all right?

Yes I am on Darian's side and for all he has done throughout his career here that is my choice but even taking that out of the equation I look at what Jones says and then what he does and they are more often the opposite of each other. This does not build my trust in a man nor give me the confidence that he is doing the best thing for the team. So far I would say with all the mistakes on the field and off of it that he has made then I would hope that many fans would have the same issues.

It is one thing to support new management if they show solid results but that isn't the case here when you look at the whole picture is it? 5-13 record,wasting money, being fined by the league, bringing in very questionable character players, bringing in a 100 players in a season and probably 5- 10 positive results. These are also not exactly glowing recommendations to continue on the same path. Lets see we brought in Cox, Gainey, Holley, Edwards (Amanti,) Muamba, Jefferson. That is 6 players I can think of as keepers. 6 out a 100. 6% of all the players we brought in. Fine I may have missed one or two so lets say 10, 10% efficiency is impressive I must say. Jones wants to talk numbers and pay players accordingly then he probably should take an 90% cut in his wage. If he doesn't like it then he should walk. Numbers are numbers and that is what Jones is basing his decisions on then he should be judged the same.

Jones admitted that the team should be graded as an F so this is what we are paying him all that money for? We can get results like that at a much cheaper price. Jones is responsible for the teams so that means he is also a F grade. This is one thing I can agree on with him. He is an F and F is for fowled up plus a few other things . He has been that in flying colors.



So I will ask you this depop. What conclusion can you come to when Jones had an opportunity to improve the team by trading Darian when he could have if he was going to negotiate this way knowing this is all but the kiss of death to any deal getting done with Darian, but instead he does nothing and we will get nothing when Darian walks? How can you justify or defend this type of action? I'm pretty sure you also said if Jones lets Darian walk when we could have traded him and got assets that this was poor management and the board should fire Jones. Did you have a change of heart? If so why


I have explained my view on this. Sorry you can's see it.



Who was brought in...Cox, Gainey, Holley, Edwards (Amanti,) Muamba, Jefferson, Bennett, Campbell (yes, he should be around), Craig (has done enough to earn a shot), Jones and Jones (both have been great additions on D), Rodgers (he got better every week and could be a staple in the secondary), Hecht (secondary looked a lot better with him back there), McKnight (seems to hold a pile of promise), Eguavoen (Knox is good, E is better), Gaydosh (legit ratio player)

That right there includes at least a dozen....a full dozen...that are starts. This is pretty fricken impressive for one year IMO. Every one of those players starts or competes for a legit rotations somewhere in the CFL. How many departures from last year that were cut in that group of 19 re playing...Macho (which is crazy)....anyone else?


So here it is...show me the team that pays DD 400k+ next season. Jones sees the scenario and is playing it pretty wisely...you can call him an idiot as much as you want but he is spot on with his price point...and like I said, I would have already signed him...that doesn't mean it is the best move for 2017 sms. Right now the Bombers are probably the best chance of that happening...and if they win on Sunday with Nichols looking good...forget about it. So go ahead...call him stupid all you want...seems to me that he sees DDs limited options and you don't or refuse to....again...I don't agree with it and would have signed him...but he is not wrong.

Jones refuses to tie sentimental valuation to signing players......that is what you should want in a GM...well...unless you want a team that all your favs are around but won't win.
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Re: Franklin starting today...

by JimmytheGreek » Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:04 pm

Campbell has been garbage, Newsome garbage,Craig enough to earn a shot? Rogers may be good enough? Gaydosh there is nothing that indicates he isn't more then a wish and a prayer. How much has he played this year again? This is promising? McKnight should be competing for a spot and that is it. 400k is not the base that Darian is asking for now is it? Now Jones wants to offer something like 275K and unrealistic( your words) incentive bonuses. That hardly equates to a realistic 400k now does it? How about the facts that we only won 5 games, I take that as being not something that Jones should be also accountable for as much as Darian?

I'm not basing this all on sentimental value either. Darian has taken a cut in 2016 and offered to take another cut of 100k that has nothing to do with sentimental values but it is just a solid reason to resign him. I have no issue moving on to the next Darian either but that is the thing now isn't it? Just a minor detail I know but we don't have the next Darian now do we? Honestly does anyone on the team as of now strike you as the next one? Now there is lots of speculation that Franklin will be here next year but again how does it make sense IF he isn't a FA we are going to pay through our noses to get him. How does this fit into the building up our draft picks and Canadian content and then we trade them away in the blink of an eye? Does this seem the move of an intelligent GM? Hey here is a thought now I know it sounds a little bit out there but just for S*** & giggles humor me, how about we sign Darian to a reasonable and fair contract and if it so happens Franklin is a FA then we nab him costing for no draft picks or no NI starters? If that is this year then fine, if it is next year that is fine too because we have a starting qb in Darian all ready. I know kind of crazy huh? What a concept, not getting rid of the only starting qb the team has before having the next one here. Whew that is crazy talk I know.

Ahh but here is the thing Jones by his little public "negotiation tacit" he pretty much guaranteed that isn't going to happen now is it? No Darian would not take anything that Jones said as personal and will fully understand that is just part of the process of negotiating. He will come crawling back to Jones and say it was his fault after all. Yup that's it. Jones is right I mean what else could anyone believe or think?

Look I get it that players move on and retire and yes Darian included but the way it can be done and the way it is being done is what I have an issue with. IF we are smart we do the smart thing and get Darian signed so we have that for assurance, then we get a Franklin or whoever when it isn't going to cost us in draft picks or starting NI's and then Darian has to make the choice of staying on in the role of like a Lulay or retiring or moving on. That is a practical way of at least giving the team the best opportunity to succeed not just now but in the future. Is that such a terrible thing to want? Is it really that unrealistic or unattainable? IF Jones plays it right I think it is very possible but that opportunity is quickly slipping away and we all may regret that it did. Jones included.
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Re: Franklin starting today...

by depopulationINC » Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:44 pm

JimmytheGreek wrote:Campbell has been garbage, Newsome garbage,Craig enough to earn a shot? Rogers may be good enough? Gaydosh there is nothing that indicates he isn't more then a wish and a prayer. How much has he played this year again? This is promising? McKnight should be competing for a spot and that is it. 400k is not the base that Darian is asking for now is it? Now Jones wants to offer something like 275K and unrealistic( your words) incentive bonuses. That hardly equates to a realistic 400k now does it? How about the facts that we only won 5 games, I take that as being not something that Jones should be also accountable for as much as Darian?

I'm not basing this all on sentimental value either. Darian has taken a cut in 2016 and offered to take another cut of 100k that has nothing to do with sentimental values but it is just a solid reason to resign him. I have no issue moving on to the next Darian either but that is the thing now isn't it? Just a minor detail I know but we don't have the next Darian now do we? Honestly does anyone on the team as of now strike you as the next one? Now there is lots of speculation that Franklin will be here next year but again how does it make sense IF he isn't a FA we are going to pay through our noses to get him. How does this fit into the building up our draft picks and Canadian content and then we trade them away in the blink of an eye? Does this seem the move of an intelligent GM? Hey here is a thought now I know it sounds a little bit out there but just for S*** & giggles humor me, how about we sign Darian to a reasonable and fair contract and if it so happens Franklin is a FA then we nab him costing for no draft picks or no NI starters? If that is this year then fine, if it is next year that is fine too because we have a starting qb in Darian all ready. I know kind of crazy huh? What a concept, not getting rid of the only starting qb the team has before having the next one here. Whew that is crazy talk I know.


I compare Campbell to the beginning of the season and how much he has progressed for a first year national player...damned straight he should be around
Craig...yes...he has done enough to compete for a spot. Came in during injuries and made some clutch catches
Newsome has not been garbage...and I never mentioned him because he may or my not be back
Gaydosh is a baller.
400 is not the base that DD wants...but what he wants is a number that will bring him there
I never stated what is on the table for offers...only that I have seen them
Jones is accountable...he stood up and gave himself an F

Yes...you are basing it on sentimental terms...you have said repeatedly that DD has put in the time with the club and earned the money. if you are not basing it on sentiment...ok...where is DD going to get 400 or more? pretty limited options. Seems Jones has priced him at a point others would or better...Bombers likely being the wild card
It is not another 100k cut he has tabled...it is 100+ bonus that will bring him to 400 w/ 200k upfront
Don't care about the next DD...IMO Jones and <Murphy still want DD
"reasonable and fair"...please define. I have said countless times that I would have signed him by now...but I also recognize that what they are offering...DD likely doesn't get topped elsewhere....so how is that unreasonable or unfair?
Who said he is going to trade drafts for Franklin or someone else? He already walked away from that deal once...what makes you so confident that he has done a 180 on it?
You can poke his intelligence all you want...he is clearly seeing a wider spectrum on this than you so...yeah...you are going madhouse about speculation on something that he has already shown he doesn't want to do
Crazy talk...yes indeed...a couple months ago you were stating that his base should be even higher than DD himself is even asking for in total compensation....meanwhile both sides are actually on the same page with a number...it is a matter of how it is set up...so yeah

I do fully believe Jones wants a contract in place that will allow competition at QB though...and I am not sure that is wise for 2017

I wonder what DD does if there is indeed a 2018 GC announcement on Tuesday....that will make things really interesting!
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Re: Franklin starting today...

by JimmytheGreek » Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:32 pm

depopulationINC wrote:
JimmytheGreek wrote:Campbell has been garbage, Newsome garbage,Craig enough to earn a shot? Rogers may be good enough? Gaydosh there is nothing that indicates he isn't more then a wish and a prayer. How much has he played this year again? This is promising? McKnight should be competing for a spot and that is it. 400k is not the base that Darian is asking for now is it? Now Jones wants to offer something like 275K and unrealistic( your words) incentive bonuses. That hardly equates to a realistic 400k now does it? How about the facts that we only won 5 games, I take that as being not something that Jones should be also accountable for as much as Darian?

I'm not basing this all on sentimental value either. Darian has taken a cut in 2016 and offered to take another cut of 100k that has nothing to do with sentimental values but it is just a solid reason to resign him. I have no issue moving on to the next Darian either but that is the thing now isn't it? Just a minor detail I know but we don't have the next Darian now do we? Honestly does anyone on the team as of now strike you as the next one? Now there is lots of speculation that Franklin will be here next year but again how does it make sense IF he isn't a FA we are going to pay through our noses to get him. How does this fit into the building up our draft picks and Canadian content and then we trade them away in the blink of an eye? Does this seem the move of an intelligent GM? Hey here is a thought now I know it sounds a little bit out there but just for S*** & giggles humor me, how about we sign Darian to a reasonable and fair contract and if it so happens Franklin is a FA then we nab him costing for no draft picks or no NI starters? If that is this year then fine, if it is next year that is fine too because we have a starting qb in Darian all ready. I know kind of crazy huh? What a concept, not getting rid of the only starting qb the team has before having the next one here. Whew that is crazy talk I know.


I compare Campbell to the beginning of the season and how much he has progressed for a first year national player...damned straight he should be around
Craig...yes...he has done enough to compete for a spot. Came in during injuries and made some clutch catches
Newsome has not been garbage...and I never mentioned him because he may or my not be back
Gaydosh is a baller.
400 is not the base that DD wants...but what he wants is a number that will bring him there
I never stated what is on the table for offers...only that I have seen them
Jones is accountable...he stood up and gave himself an F

Yes...you are basing it on sentimental terms...you have said repeatedly that DD has put in the time with the club and earned the money. if you are not basing it on sentiment...ok...where is DD going to get 400 or more? pretty limited options. Seems Jones has priced him at a point others would or better...Bombers likely being the wild card
It is not another 100k cut he has tabled...it is 100+ bonus that will bring him to 400 w/ 200k upfront
Don't care about the next DD...IMO Jones and <Murphy still want DD
"reasonable and fair"...please define. I have said countless times that I would have signed him by now...but I also recognize that what they are offering...DD likely doesn't get topped elsewhere....so how is that unreasonable or unfair?
Who said he is going to trade drafts for Franklin or someone else? He already walked away from that deal once...what makes you so confident that he has done a 180 on it?
You can poke his intelligence all you want...he is clearly seeing a wider spectrum on this than you so...yeah...you are going madhouse about speculation on something that he has already shown he doesn't want to do
Crazy talk...yes indeed...a couple months ago you were stating that his base should be even higher than DD himself is even asking for in total compensation....meanwhile both sides are actually on the same page with a number...it is a matter of how it is set up...so yeah

I do fully believe Jones wants a contract in place that will allow competition at QB though...and I am not sure that is wise for 2017

I wonder what DD does if there is indeed a 2018 GC announcement on Tuesday....that will make things really interesting!


Campbell had one decent game and that was coming in late for an injury and he did all right, nothing spectacular or game changing mind you he just did all right. I will cut him some slack though as he is very young and yes the passport is the strong point. I don't know why your so thrilled about Gaydosh, remind me how much he contributed to Hamilton this year? How much he contributed to us? Yeah pretty much a goose egg. Nothing in that says the sun rises and sets on his behind. Newsome has regressed in the last have of the season so again this is not encouraging.

Now as for Franklin there seems to be more saying he isn't a FA this year then those saying he is so again if he isn't a FA and Jones walks away from Darian what choice will he have if Franklin is his boy? Anyone honestly think Edmonton is just going to hand him over for free? Lol just the opposite will happen and Jones's price will be much higher then other teams price. So the asking price when trade rumors started last spring on Franklin was 2 first round picks and a NI starter think Jones gets that price? I sure don't. No it will be even higher I can assure you for two reasons. One it is Jones two it is a western opponent. Again why would Edmonton not let us hang in the wind if we screwed up a deal with Darian and are desperate for a young starter? It just isn't going to happen if we have to trade for Franklin thus my stating about this isn't the way we are suppose to be building the team and the price we will pay for him in a trade will be very high, don't kid yourself about that.

I don't care what player it is, if a statement like Jones puts out about Darian and his playing abilities or accomplishments in the media the odds of them even listening to you anymore is minimal at best. What Jones all but come out and said is that Darian is "average at best" this is a good bargaining method or a statement that your wanted? Sure could have fooled me and I doubt Darian is taking this all as "part of the process" either. Sometimes things are said that can't be taken back. I have a feeling this is one of those times. Jones made an enormous mistake and unless he publicly apologizes for it (never happen) then the damage has been done.

Oh and your right Jones doesn't care about the fans or their opinions but perhaps it would be very prudent to remember this is a community owned team and it is us fans that are allowing him to eat and live so well. That could be taken away very fast also. Others have found that out the hard way and your no exception to the rule I'm sure.
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Re: Franklin starting today...

by ed ohmnes » Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:53 pm

I agree, the players are being asked to play for lower wages yet the coach took quite a pile for himself, perhaps he could return some and spread the money around, budget ,"?
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Re: Franklin starting today...

by nowhereman » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:22 pm

Lyle B. Style wrote:SECOND AMENDMENT

1. The individual team forums are 'safe havens' for the fans of that team and are off-limits for trash-talk from fans of other teams. Take it to the main forum or it will be deleted, or worse, your post will be edited to make you look silly.


Post removed. - Sully

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Re: Franklin starting today...

by PrideLivesHere » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:45 pm

nowhereman wrote:
Lyle B. Style wrote:SECOND AMENDMENT

1. The individual team forums are 'safe havens' for the fans of that team and are off-limits for trash-talk from fans of other teams. Take it to the main forum or it will be deleted, or worse, your post will be edited to make you look silly.


Post removed. - Sully

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