Ti-Cats @ Riders

Ti-Cats @ Riders

by StormRider1 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:47 am

Any predictions!!??

I don't think it will be a blow out like last time. The D is playing much better , but our O is still struggling.
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Re: Ti-Cats @ Riders

by JimmytheGreek » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:26 am

If they can stop taking stupid penalties and Jones doesn't make mistakes , ie not calling a time out when trying to score the game winning points like last week. Then the Rider can win this game. Hamilton is not playing great ball right now and also have some injury issues to key players.

Keys to a Rider victory.
1) Offense must get more points earlier in the game. Waiting until the second half to wake up is begging for trouble.
2) Must use Steele and a run game all game. They may have times with no success but they need to stick with it and keep Hamilton's D honest. Oh and drop the stupid swing hitch to Dempsky that never works.
3) Give Durant more then 3 seconds before he gets flattened. O line simply needs to start stepping up their game, injuries or not the O line we have needs to get it done.
4) Defense needs to get after Zac . He is not 100% confident right now but if they give him time and he will shred the secondary. Make him uncomfortable back there and Zac will make mistakes.
5) Secondary has to stop giving up the two or three big plays a game. By big plays I mean wide open receivers for easy scores.
6) No more stupid "trick plays" on special teams that are so obvious or so poorly executed that they fail. If your going to gamble just leave Darian in and go for it.

In other words if the Riders play just good solid fundamental football without shooting themselves in the foot they can win this one.
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Re: Ti-Cats @ Riders

by Linden53 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:14 pm

StormRider1 wrote:Any predictions!!??

I don't think it will be a blow out like last time. The D is playing much better , but our O is still struggling.

Rain with a cross swirled wind of sorts, like Jimmy mentioned run the ball - Steele, Durrant combo, Rider football bounce and indeed laddie the Riders win this one by six. Best thing though, would be a two game win streak for the fans at Taylor Field.
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Re: Ti-Cats @ Riders

by nythril » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:37 pm

Nice to win again. However this is the first time to my knowledge that no game day thread was started in the main forums for this game. It's a sad state of the forums that so many posters are leaving or just ignoring the site. Reading the cats forum and although I respect the rules not to post it was hard - the crying over the call on the ball movement ..... all season long the refs have called a technical game on the riders... the slightest hint of contact and posters would tell rider fans to stuff it - rules are rules. Now that they are on the receiving end of being called by the book ... all hell is breaking loose ... the fix is in. And they refer to the riders as cheaters.

Again glad we won and hope Darian is ok .... sad to see the sorry state of the CFL forums
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Re: Ti-Cats @ Riders

by 60YearFan » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:38 am

nythril wrote:Nice to win again. However this is the first time to my knowledge that no game day thread was started in the main forums for this game. It's a sad state of the forums that so many posters are leaving or just ignoring the site. Reading the cats forum and although I respect the rules not to post it was hard - the crying over the call on the ball movement ..... all season long the refs have called a technical game on the riders... the slightest hint of contact and posters would tell rider fans to stuff it - rules are rules. Now that they are on the receiving end of being called by the book ... all hell is breaking loose ... the fix is in. And they refer to the riders as cheaters.

Again glad we won and hope Darian is ok .... sad to see the sorry state of the CFL forums


You're right rules are rules. But you should check the rulebook. What the Hamilton centre did is perfectly legal and is done by every centre on virtually every snap.
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Re: Ti-Cats @ Riders

by nythril » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:46 am

This isn't the ti cats forum.
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Re: Ti-Cats @ Riders

by depopulationINC » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:53 am

60YearFan wrote:
nythril wrote:Nice to win again. However this is the first time to my knowledge that no game day thread was started in the main forums for this game. It's a sad state of the forums that so many posters are leaving or just ignoring the site. Reading the cats forum and although I respect the rules not to post it was hard - the crying over the call on the ball movement ..... all season long the refs have called a technical game on the riders... the slightest hint of contact and posters would tell rider fans to stuff it - rules are rules. Now that they are on the receiving end of being called by the book ... all hell is breaking loose ... the fix is in. And they refer to the riders as cheaters.

Again glad we won and hope Darian is ok .... sad to see the sorry state of the CFL forums


You're right rules are rules. But you should check the rulebook. What the Hamilton centre did is perfectly legal and is done by every centre on virtually every snap.


I think you need to check the rule book...It is legal to adjust the ball...yes. it is not legal to advance it forward. On 1st down or maybe even 3rd and 1 this doesn't get called, but he moved that forward enough that it was already breaking the first down plane...it had nothing to do with tilting the ball...which is perfectly legal. Chances are this doesn't get called if a Dlineman doesn't stand and point it out...from there it is a pretty easy call. It was 3rd and a few inches and he moved it 3+. When the ref came in and laid the ball flat from where the center held it you could clearly see it was already half way through the yard marker...which is where the first down point was. Because the first down plane was basically dead center of the yard mark it was pretty easy for the DL to see it was moved


But hey....hows about that illegal contact where Andy slipped and stumbled into the DB?



Edit...here is a picture to illustrate. It was 3rd and inches. You feel that ball is not clearly advanced?

Image

And here is the next Rider short yardage. If you can not see the difference then you are choosing not to
Image
Last edited by depopulationINC on Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ti-Cats @ Riders

by depopulationINC » Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:28 am

At any rate...nice to see some clicking...I always felt the tail end of the season would show a lot better...also thought the first half of the season would see 1-2 more wins.

Was a pretty entertaining game...that fumble on the GL was close. I felt it was one that could go either way and thus would not get overturned. He was down with the ball in his hands but it seemed like the strip had wiggled the ball...though it wasn't loose...this is where I like replay...that is a darned tough one to call on the field and is a potential game changer.

Nice to see 2 teams battling injuries and both playing alright.

The OL was pretty impressive against what is a really solid DL. Can see the difference having X and King makes from the last match-up.

Was not thinking Gainey was a long term plan....but man...the guy has been solid. Gainey/Cox/Rodgers is a really nice combo...Bennett rounds it out nicely. With Brooks and Jackson on the irl and a lot of promise in Hunter they have great depth there finally....took a while but the secondary looks good. The DL played alright tonight...still needs to improve but they got some heat on when needed. Hecht is a big boost at Safety...hoping they move Francis to FB/TE or something.

I thought they might be done when Gale chucked that pick....man...the issue on the GL and then that....impressive bounce back...marching it for the win is a good sign of a team improving.

Receivers looked rock solid all around....Demski looked good...hope that is a sign that he is growing....which usually takes a couple seasons for a CIS reciever.

Jones is a mess on OL. Vonk looked the best he has all season....could be a good one there....I was a little surprised when they kept him over Picton...but it looks like they got it right.

Kudos to the staff for keeping DD out when he appeared ok to return...player safety first


On a side note....I have heard there is a big name on the block......and no it is not Durant. If anything happens apparently it will likely be in about 9 days. Source: A GM in the league not with the Riders.
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Re: Ti-Cats @ Riders

by JimmytheGreek » Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:36 am

depopulationINC wrote:At any rate...nice to see some clicking...I always felt the tail end of the season would show a lot better...also thought the first half of the season would see 1-2 more wins.

Was a pretty entertaining game...that fumble on the GL was close. I felt it was one that could go either way and thus would not get overturned. He was down with the ball in his hands but it seemed like the strip had wiggled the ball...though it wasn't loose...this is where I like replay...that is a darned tough one to call on the field and is a potential game changer.

Nice to see 2 teams battling injuries and both playing alright.

The OL was pretty impressive against what is a really solid DL. Can see the difference having X and King makes from the last match-up.

Was not thinking Gainey was a long term plan....but man...the guy has been solid. Gainey/Cox/Rodgers is a really nice combo...Bennett rounds it out nicely. With Brooks and Jackson on the irl and a lot of promise in Hunter they have great depth there finally....took a while but the secondary looks good. The DL played alright tonight...still needs to improve but they got some heat on when needed. Hecht is a big boost at Safety...hoping they move Francis to FB/TE or something.

I thought they might be done when Gale chucked that pick....man...the issue on the GL and then that....impressive bounce back...marching it for the win is a good sign of a team improving.

Receivers looked rock solid all around....Demski looked good...hope that is a sign that he is growing....which usually takes a couple seasons for a CIS reciever.

Jones is a mess on OL. Vonk looked the best he has all season....could be a good one there....I was a little surprised when they kept him over Picton...but it looks like they got it right.

Kudos to the staff for keeping DD out when he appeared ok to return...player safety first


On a side note....I have heard there is a big name on the block......and no it is not Durant. If anything happens apparently it will likely be in about 9 days. Source: A GM in the league not with the Riders.


Yes a good win and I really had my doubts with Durant out. Still when they pulled Darian and put Gale in on that 1st and Goal I just about blew a gasket and I wasn`t shocked that he fumbled it either as he has not looked good period on the keeper. Lucky he had his knee down just before the ball came out or I think that is the game right there. Darian goes in and boom end zone. He didn`t look happy about not being in on the first down attempt as he spiked it with some anger afterwards. Then Gale throws the pick when we were in field goal range and I thought that is it for sure. Yeah Gale did get the final drive for the win but does anyone feel good about going into next year with no Durant. I know I sure don``t. Oh and rod pederson is saying Franklin is not an option as far as an FA as he has one more season with Edmonton. So unless we make a trade for him Franklin is a non factor.

Back to this game, yeah Jones said in the post game interview Hamilton was moving the ball forward all game. When the D linemen made it so obvious they had to call it, I think if he didn`t they get away with it again.
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Re: Ti-Cats @ Riders

by Abendschan » Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:23 am

nythril wrote:This isn't the ti cats forum.

Yup, and 100% glad the Saskatchewan Roughriders have Chris Jones for a coach and not Kent Austin......Ah sure :D
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Re: Ti-Cats @ Riders

by EE17 » Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:54 am

depopulationINC wrote:
60YearFan wrote:
nythril wrote:Nice to win again. However this is the first time to my knowledge that no game day thread was started in the main forums for this game. It's a sad state of the forums that so many posters are leaving or just ignoring the site. Reading the cats forum and although I respect the rules not to post it was hard - the crying over the call on the ball movement ..... all season long the refs have called a technical game on the riders... the slightest hint of contact and posters would tell rider fans to stuff it - rules are rules. Now that they are on the receiving end of being called by the book ... all hell is breaking loose ... the fix is in. And they refer to the riders as cheaters.

Again glad we won and hope Darian is ok .... sad to see the sorry state of the CFL forums


You're right rules are rules. But you should check the rulebook. What the Hamilton centre did is perfectly legal and is done by every centre on virtually every snap.


I think you need to check the rule book...It is legal to adjust the ball...yes. it is not legal to advance it forward. On 1st down or maybe even 3rd and 1 this doesn't get called, but he moved that forward enough that it was already breaking the first down plane...it had nothing to do with tilting the ball...which is perfectly legal. Chances are this doesn't get called if a Dlineman doesn't stand and point it out...from there it is a pretty easy call. It was 3rd and a few inches and he moved it 3+. When the ref came in and laid the ball flat from where the center held it you could clearly see it was already half way through the yard marker...which is where the first down point was. Because the first down plane was basically dead center of the yard mark it was pretty easy for the DL to see it was moved

How do u advance a ball when its not even snapped yet BTW the Riders Center did exact same thing in their next series, the call was the worst call in CFL History
But hey....hows about that illegal contact where Andy slipped and stumbled into the DB?



Edit...here is a picture to illustrate. It was 3rd and inches. You feel that ball is not clearly advanced?

Image


Worst Call in CFL History TSN even Highlighted the Riders Center doing same thing with no call in their next series
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Re: Ti-Cats @ Riders

by depopulationINC » Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:56 am

EE17 wrote:
depopulationINC wrote:
60YearFan wrote:You're right rules are rules. But you should check the rulebook. What the Hamilton centre did is perfectly legal and is done by every centre on virtually every snap.


I think you need to check the rule book...It is legal to adjust the ball...yes. it is not legal to advance it forward. On 1st down or maybe even 3rd and 1 this doesn't get called, but he moved that forward enough that it was already breaking the first down plane...it had nothing to do with tilting the ball...which is perfectly legal. Chances are this doesn't get called if a Dlineman doesn't stand and point it out...from there it is a pretty easy call. It was 3rd and a few inches and he moved it 3+. When the ref came in and laid the ball flat from where the center held it you could clearly see it was already half way through the yard marker...which is where the first down point was. Because the first down plane was basically dead center of the yard mark it was pretty easy for the DL to see it was moved

How do u advance a ball when its not even snapped yet BTW the Riders Center did exact same thing in their next series, the call was the worst call in CFL History
But hey....hows about that illegal contact where Andy slipped and stumbled into the DB?



Edit...here is a picture to illustrate. It was 3rd and inches. You feel that ball is not clearly advanced?

Image


Worst Call in CFL History TSN even Highlighted the Riders Center doing same thing with no call in their next series


Yep, they sure did highlight it and compare it to Clark's snap...Clark tilted it as well, as does every center....difference is that he didn't move it forward half a foot. Open your eyes and look....go on...actually look and compare.....there is no comparison because he didn't move it. Just because schmucks on TSN might have said it was from simply tilting it that doesn't mean that is why it was called. Did you even listen to the ref give an expanded reasoning for the call when he announced it?

I laughed my butt off when they attempted comparing Clark's setting to this one...he never moved it at all, only tilted it. Sorry to hear that you are a big enough sucker that you bit so hard on what the panelists told you. The Cats were doing this the entire game...the Riders either noticed it in game or saw it on footage coming in and waited till the right time to point it out...that is a huge kudos to them for recognizing acting on it.

When I have time I will do a side by side shot of Clark's short yardage next snap, since you apparently can't pick up the difference. You think the Cats were not watching for it and would not have stood up and pointed it out if they saw the same thing after? How naive.

I don't think you can be THIS blind....you really just can't tell the difference....you need to re-watch some short yardage snaps

PS...this is NOT the first time this has ever been called. Ask O'Shea about it....shoot him a Tweet and see what he has to say
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Re: Ti-Cats @ Riders

by JimmytheGreek » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:57 pm

Depop is dead bang on as the Riders have been nailed for this also so it isn't the "first time it ever been called" as Suitor was proclaiming. I think we got nailed for it twice in one game but can't recall who the center was. Yeah TSN was playing it up as a Mickey Mouse infraction and trying to say Clark did the same thing which he didn't. He rolled the ball to the side in the same spot to get the laces right and then tilts it straight from there. Hamilton adjusted the ball twice in that one play and it was the second adjustment they got nailed for. I also agree that if Clark had did the same thing on the last gamble then Austin would have been flapping his arms at another ref or just out right punching him.

Austin will probably only get a fine but he should be suspended a game for what he did and no it was no accident either. He looks right at the ref and then hits his hand as the ref was making a motion to Austin to move away. I can understand Austin being upset but still he shouldn't get away with that. The dude needs to get control of himself and perhaps serving a game in the box may be the only way to do it.
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Re: Ti-Cats @ Riders

by JimmytheGreek » Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:17 pm

Back to the game now and to the keys that I mentioned. Well the Riders did get off to a better start on offense and actually scored points in the first quarter so thats a check. Coaching mistakes though again as I also mentioned taking Darian out and putting Gale in on the first and goal, seriously how many times do they have to do this only for bad results before they get it through their thick heads it isn't working? Gale goes in and fumbles and was within a whisker of costing us the game. Darian goes in and just plows straight in. Hmm does anyone not see the difference here? I will break it down for whoever made that decision because obviously they are a bit slow or obtuse. Gale in on sneaks or goal line plays> Bad. Darian in on sneaks or goal line plays> Good. There is that clear enough? I hope so but time will tell.

The defense didn't give up any really big big plays other then that one series that Hamilton marched easily down the field and scored, it wasn't all in one shot though so I will give the defense a check mark for that but take a half check mark off for still not getting great pressure. They did get a bit more pressure at times but just not consistent enough yet.

They didn't call any trick plays on third downs so they get a check mark there.

They did play pretty solid fundamental ball without taking lots of penalties, still need to clean that area up a bit more.

They do use Steele a bit more but still not happy with how much, half a check mark there.

O line played fairly well but a couple of whiffs and Durant did get hurried or hit still far too often, so only a quarter check mark there.

Overall they did enough of the key things right to get the win and if Darian didn't go out( again O line not keeping him clean) then I think we would have won bigger. Baby steps in the right direction though so that is a plus.
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Re: Ti-Cats @ Riders

by 60YearFan » Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:46 pm

JimmytheGreek wrote: Hamilton adjusted the ball twice in that one play and it was the second adjustment they got nailed for.

I didn't see that but if you're right and he adjusted the ball twice that is against the rules - a cheap call but technically correct . In any event the Riders won it by moving the ball at the end for a field goal. The players not the refs decided it.
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