Durant for ?????

Re: Durant for ?????

by bowl450 » Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:49 pm

depopulationINC wrote:
Grover wrote:Half way thru the Negotiations, Jones PO'ed Durant,
Durant then told Jones to go "Eff" himself, It didn't have to happen, Jones got in the way of himself on this.
After that, Jones got what he could get for him.
Remember, DD restructured his contract and Durant took a $50K paycut last season for Jones and the team

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that is great...but DD closed negotiations well before an adverse word was said about him to the media. They had not said one bad thing about him prior to him stating he would not negotiate further directly which was a total blindsiding. he also pulled some stunts he shouldn't have after that during the season. don't get me wrong...Jones also never should have said what he did in that interview...but DD had already pulled back by then. had they said it to his face in negotiations...probably...not in public though. while they maybe should not have said it to him they were stating their view on why they could not meet his base and the fact is that nothing he said in that interview was false....so yeah...DD likely got butt hurt when it was used to try to push him off the 200...doesn't make them wrong and doesn't mean it was said publicly before he stepped back. I always said I was concerned with negotiations with DD during the season...it was a mistake. w/o Montreal having had put an offer out there and have it make its way to him DD likely bends on that 200.

Durant stirred things up in the media to start this all with his "i am done" comment and he seems to have the need to continue it...to each their own. Hope he makes his tax shelter and didn't leave the Riders for 7k to potentially a take-home loss. Hope he has a great year.


all we hear is the comments via media.
not the comments behind closed doors ?
bridges could be burnt both ways with simple comments not privy to the general public, whether through negotiations or on the field or in the dressing room.
the fact is that both Durant and Jones painted themselves into a corner that neither could back down from and continue negotiations in good faith.
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Re: Durant for ?????

by depopulationINC » Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:01 pm

bowl450 wrote:all we hear is the comments via media.
not the comments behind closed doors ?
bridges could be burnt both ways with simple comments not privy to the general public, whether through negotiations or on the field or in the dressing room.
the fact is that both Durant and Jones painted themselves into a corner that neither could back down from and continue negotiations in good faith.


oh yes...bridges were burned both ways for sure. Pretty obvious by what we saw in the media alone
we saw....
- we saw negotiations were going good on the road trip
- we then saw the Riders state it was getting close
- we then saw Montreal make a bid on him
- we then saw the Riders state they were not interested unless it was a mountain
- we then saw the Riders state it would have taken the "A" in Argos for them to have agreed to a trade with the Argos when they approached
- we then saw what Montreal/Popp had tabled through back channels for a contract
- we then saw DD state he would no longer negotiate himself and in doing so blindsiding Murphy as he went public using the "unofficial" offer stating he was giving a discount
- we then saw that DD pulled out of the last game (and I have filled in some blanks there of the in-between)
- we then saw DD's end of season comments where he was butt hurt over the last week of the season (again I filled in some blanks)
- we then saw Jones make the idiotic statements in an interview
- we then saw they were not negotiating
- we then saw Jones make at least 2 offers in the new year including doubling up to 150 cash
- we saw DD's camp reject and say no, without moving on their "1 year 200+150+50" counter
- we saw a trade


there are certain things some know about more than others...I know I know a few details many don't....but the above everyone had access to.
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Re: Durant for ?????

by Grover » Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:39 pm

Does anybody actually think that Durant didn't want to be the starting QB for the Riders anymore?
Do you think Durant sabotaged the negotiations to not have to play in the New Stadium?
Do you think he was butt hurt by the standing ovation he got in the last game played at the old Stadium?
Bigger than the ovation for George Reed!

Absolutely Not to all of it!

The guy was the face of the franchise, He lived for the Riders,A Green God, A Green Warrior, He bled Green.
He loved SSK, He Loved the Riders and He loved the Fans.
IMHO, Durant didn't want to go, but he had to, and the reason is blatantly obvious.

Jones messed with him so bad he left the Team so he wouldn't have to deal with Jones anymore.
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Re: Durant for ?????

by StormRider1 » Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:42 pm

Grover wrote:Does anybody actually think that Durant didn't want to be the starting QB for the Riders anymore?
Do you think Durant sabotaged the negotiations to not have to play in the New Stadium?
Do you think he was butt hurt by the standing ovation he got in the last game played at the old Stadium?
Bigger than the ovation for George Reed!

Absolutely Not to all of it!

The guy was the face of the franchise, He lived for the Riders,A Green God, A Green Warrior, He bled Green.
He loved SSK, He Loved the Riders and He loved the Fans.
IMHO, Durant didn't want to go, but he had to, and the reason is blatantly obvious.

Jones messed with him so bad he left the Team so he wouldn't have to deal with Jones anymore.


Agreed!!
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Re: Durant for ?????

by ed ohmnes » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:32 pm

Agreed, I also want to add that I don't agree at all that he is injury prone to me , he had 2 fluky injuries, that cost him, but lots of time can heal those injuries. I guess we'll see
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Re: Durant for ?????

by depopulationINC » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:23 pm

ed ohmnes wrote:Agreed, I also want to add that I don't agree at all that he is injury prone to me , he had 2 fluky injuries, that cost him, but lots of time can heal those injuries. I guess we'll see


nobody has said he is injury prone except for some fans. It has been said he has an injury history...and he does. There is a massive difference. Lulay for example is injury prone.
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Re: Durant for ?????

by JimmytheGreek » Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:53 am

Grover wrote:Does anybody actually think that Durant didn't want to be the starting QB for the Riders anymore?
Do you think Durant sabotaged the negotiations to not have to play in the New Stadium?
Do you think he was butt hurt by the standing ovation he got in the last game played at the old Stadium?
Bigger than the ovation for George Reed!

Absolutely Not to all of it!

The guy was the face of the franchise, He lived for the Riders,A Green God, A Green Warrior, He bled Green.
He loved SSK, He Loved the Riders and He loved the Fans.
IMHO, Durant didn't want to go, but he had to, and the reason is blatantly obvious.

Jones messed with him so bad he left the Team so he wouldn't have to deal with Jones anymore.


Couldn't agree more. Sure Darian probably did say some dumb things but after the final game in Mosaic that clearly was very important to him and he was yanked in and out of the line up I think he finally had enough. Jone knew full well what that game meant to Darian and he humiliated him by not allowing Darian to even have a reasonable chance to get anything going. Darian knew it and I imagine there were words at half time. This game to me was the turning point and after that it was all down hill. Of all games for Jones to decide to pull this stunt of let see what the other guys can do was more then about the team but to send a message. If it wasn't then why not do it a game earlier or a game later? Nope it was a well calculated move in my opinion by Jones.

If Jones hadn't done that perhaps things would have turned out but after that game it was obvious things were not good between the two and probably Darian had all ready made up his mind by the end of the season that it was hopeless to think he and Jones could work together and thus his reason not to play in the final game or simply not budge on his 200k ask on upfront money. As you said Depop he probably knew that Jones would never go for it but if he did then things may have a chance. Jones refused and with Darian probably having a good idea what Montreal would do for him, it was game over.
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Re: Durant for ?????

by ed ohmnes » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:03 am

I think it was a hard season for durant to get through after jones gassed everyone and that it wouldn't take much to turn durant away, It's really hard to have any respect for jones after the way this has all gone down. But it's too late now, I guess we're in for more rebuilding and that seems to be what we do best.
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Re: Durant for ?????

by JimmytheGreek » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:53 pm

ed ohmnes wrote:I think it was a hard season for durant to get through after jones gassed everyone and that it wouldn't take much to turn durant away, It's really hard to have any respect for jones after the way this has all gone down. But it's too late now, I guess we're in for more rebuilding and that seems to be what we do best.


Yes whats done is done and can't be undone for better or worse. As far as rebuilding and what we do best that remain to be seen. IF the Riders get off to a poor start and its obvious the main reason is lacking a good qb then things could get ugly fast. If say by after the banjo bowl we are sitting with only one or two wins or worse, I think the torches will be lit and the pitchforks sharpened to a razor. End of the season and only a couple more wins and Jones may feel the wrath of Rider nation and we know that can be a very powerful thing. Yes the new stadium is going to help this year, but if its filled with 30,000 p****d off fans they will make their displeasure very obvious. Sure there are lots of people waiting to get tickets now but with the price increase, a poor economy,and a team that is an embarrassment, that could change in the blink of an eye. How long would the board stay quiet if the place is half empty? Not long I would think if they want to keep their jobs.

Jones is putting his career on the line here and for the sake of the team I hope he hasn't made the biggest mistake of it. If he has then he will be gone and finding employment in the CFL may be hard for him to do. Mark my words, this is a very critical time in team history. Either Jones did the right thing and he builds a winner or he is wrong and the team could turn back to the dark days of the past. At this stage I'm starting to think we may have to sell the farm and get Franklin at no matter the cost just to have a chance. I'm sorry but Gale or Bridge or Kinney or Waters do not instill any confidence in me. Burris sounds like he is going to retire and he should. Ray would be huge mistake and probably killed in game one. Glenn? Well that may be the only alternative as desperate as that sounds.
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Re: Durant for ?????

by GC Bound » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:55 pm

StormRider1 wrote:
Grover wrote:Does anybody actually think that Durant didn't want to be the starting QB for the Riders anymore?
Do you think Durant sabotaged the negotiations to not have to play in the New Stadium?
Do you think he was butt hurt by the standing ovation he got in the last game played at the old Stadium?
Bigger than the ovation for George Reed!

Absolutely Not to all of it!

The guy was the face of the franchise, He lived for the Riders,A Green God, A Green Warrior, He bled Green.
He loved SSK, He Loved the Riders and He loved the Fans.
IMHO, Durant didn't want to go, but he had to, and the reason is blatantly obvious.

Jones messed with him so bad he left the Team so he wouldn't have to deal with Jones anymore.


Agreed!!



Absolutely no doubt IMO
You got my vote! :cowboy:
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Re: Durant for ?????

by HfxTC » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:58 pm

If Jones fails again this year to field a competitive football team, new stadium or not, there will be civil war in that fan base. They are very polarized right now and they are a very vocal bunch.
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Re: Durant for ?????

by JimmytheGreek » Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:50 pm

Just listened to the sports cage Friday broadcast and if you haven't listened to it I suggest you should. http://ckrm.streamon.fm/listen-pl-1694

Darian comes flat out and says and I quote " the moment I heard the comments of being "moderately successful" and my record was only 5-13 (I always thought it was a team game) I knew I could never play for Chris Jones again". " I have never heard a coach or GM publicly call a player moderately successful before." Well I guess Jones could also be called moderately successful after this past season too."

I have said it before and I knew that how Darian ticks that a comment like Jones made was a dagger in Darian's back. Sure it could be said that Jones was just speaking from stats wise but no it was a deliberate and well placed cheap shot with the intentions of doing exactly what it did,and that was to end the relationship between the Riders and Darian.
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Re: Durant for ?????

by ed ohmnes » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:15 pm

And it's so handy for him to never be around to answer the questions, he can't run away from them, I'm sure when he does show up he will be asked over and over , he better win or I'm afraid " as above "
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Re: Durant for ?????

by LeStaf » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:09 pm

En attendant, il faut trouver un quart-arrière à l'aise pour diriger l'attaque de McAdoo et regarnir la ligne offensive.

Je pense que Jones peut être un bon directeur-général, mais qu'il surévalue un peu ses capacités en négociation. Clairement, il n'a pas bien cerné ses enjeux avec Durant.

Tous les entraîneurs-chefs ne sont pas faits pour être directeur-général en même temps et l'inverse est sans doute encore plus vrai. Il faut une bonne dose de savoir faire pour y parvenir. Les intérêts de l'entraîneur-chef ne sont pas nécessairement les mêmes que ceux du directeur-général, et les gestes qu'on pose dans un des rôles n'est pas toujours compatible avec ceux qui serviraient l'autre. L'art dans tout ça tient dans le discernement qui permet de choisir le bon.

Dans le cas de Durant, Jones a tenté de se ménager une position de négociation comme directeur-général en prenant des décisions comme entraîneur-chef. Il a cherché à jouer dans la tête de Durant et son problème est qu'il y est parvenu. Durant avait plus d'options que Jones ne le croyait comme entraîneur-chef, et ça lui a nui comme directeur-général.
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Re: Durant for ?????

by bowl450 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:59 pm

LeStaf wrote:En attendant, il faut trouver un quart-arrière à l'aise pour diriger l'attaque de McAdoo et regarnir la ligne offensive.

Je pense que Jones peut être un bon directeur-général, mais qu'il surévalue un peu ses capacités en négociation. Clairement, il n'a pas bien cerné ses enjeux avec Durant.

Tous les entraîneurs-chefs ne sont pas faits pour être directeur-général en même temps et l'inverse est sans doute encore plus vrai. Il faut une bonne dose de savoir faire pour y parvenir. Les intérêts de l'entraîneur-chef ne sont pas nécessairement les mêmes que ceux du directeur-général, et les gestes qu'on pose dans un des rôles n'est pas toujours compatible avec ceux qui serviraient l'autre. L'art dans tout ça tient dans le discernement qui permet de choisir le bon.

Dans le cas de Durant, Jones a tenté de se ménager une position de négociation comme directeur-général en prenant des décisions comme entraîneur-chef. Il a cherché à jouer dans la tête de Durant et son problème est qu'il y est parvenu. Durant avait plus d'options que Jones ne le croyait comme entraîneur-chef, et ça lui a nui comme directeur-général



Meanwhile, one must find a comfortable quarterback to lead the McAdoo attack and replenish the offensive line.
I think Jones can be a good general manager, but he overestimates his negotiating abilities. Clearly, he did not fully understand his stakes with Durant.
All head coaches are not meant to be general manager at the same time and the reverse is probably even more true. It takes a good deal of know-how to do it. The interests of the head coach are not necessarily the same as those of the general manager, and the gestures in one of the roles are not always compatible with those who would serve the other. Art in all this is in the discernment that makes it possible to choose the right one.
In the case of Durant, Jones attempted to develop a negotiating position as general manager by making decisions as head coach. He tried to play in Durant's head and his problem is that he succeeded. Durant had more options than Jones believed him as head coach, and it hurt him as general manager..


I believe that you nailed it.
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