Another Bomber player retires from CFL

Another Bomber player retires from CFL

by Lyle B. Style » Fri May 12, 2017 3:19 pm

This time former 1st round pick Garrett "Lyle" Waggoner packs it in after just a couple years in the saddle.

Basically Waggoner never developed into much beyond a slightly above average special-teamer w/ the ability to cover at OLB for a few reps before other teams realized he was playing soft (and often scared)

Just another example of why the bombers have botched their drafts since time immemorial - picking hobos, defectives and leakies in addition to the requisite nobos and bobos.

I'll have more thoughts soon on why the bombers probably won't make playoffs this season, despite slithering thru to an 11-7 record in 2016. But this is the 3rd major player to retire in their 20s - PLUS losing o-line coach Bob "Walrus" Wylie and now we are hearing Richie Hall may have come down with a debilitating illness.
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Re: Another Bomber player retires from CFL

by papazoola » Fri May 12, 2017 4:31 pm

Lyle B. Style wrote:This time former 1st round pick Garrett "Lyle" Waggoner packs it in after just a couple years in the saddle.

Basically Waggoner never developed into much beyond a slightly above average special-teamer w/ the ability to cover at OLB for a few reps before other teams realized he was playing soft (and often scared)

Just another example of why the bombers have botched their drafts since time immemorial - picking hobos, defectives and leakies in addition to the requisite nobos and bobos.

I'll have more thoughts soon on why the bombers probably won't make playoffs this season, despite slithering thru to an 11-7 record in 2016. But this is the 3rd major player to retire in their 20s - PLUS losing o-line coach Bob "Walrus" Wylie and now we are hearing Richie Hall may have come down with a debilitating illness.



......Painting it pretty grim there Lyle....BUT I'll agree Waggoner (who was a supplemental ) wasn't what we thought he could be...Good special teamer and never developed much past that ...Apparently has a business that is doing well so an easy call for him as football was dead ending....Wylie was a tough loss BUT am hearing Ritchie Hall is going to be alright and will be able to handle the dc chores..That's one less worry at this time...I totally agree Joe Mack screwed up our draft when he slept through his time here...We are recovering quite well under Walters.....AND as far as not making the playoffs....ain't gonna happen in 2017 and I'll bet we are fighting for second in the west the way I see it :wink:
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Re: Another Bomber player retires from CFL

by Lyle B. Style » Fri May 12, 2017 6:53 pm

papazoola wrote:
Lyle B. Style wrote:This time former 1st round pick Garrett "Lyle" Waggoner packs it in after just a couple years in the saddle.

Basically Waggoner never developed into much beyond a slightly above average special-teamer w/ the ability to cover at OLB for a few reps before other teams realized he was playing soft (and often scared)

Just another example of why the bombers have botched their drafts since time immemorial - picking hobos, defectives and leakies in addition to the requisite nobos and bobos.

I'll have more thoughts soon on why the bombers probably won't make playoffs this season, despite slithering thru to an 11-7 record in 2016. But this is the 3rd major player to retire in their 20s - PLUS losing o-line coach Bob "Walrus" Wylie and now we are hearing Richie Hall may have come down with a debilitating illness.



......Painting it pretty grim there Lyle....BUT I'll agree Waggoner (who was a supplemental ) wasn't what we thought he could be...Good special teamer and never developed much past that ...Apparently has a business that is doing well so an easy call for him as football was dead ending....Wylie was a tough loss BUT am hearing Ritchie Hall is going to be alright and will be able to handle the dc chores..That's one less worry at this time...I totally agree Joe Mack screwed up our draft when he slept through his time here...We are recovering quite well under Walters.....AND as far as not making the playoffs....ain't gonna happen in 2017 and I'll bet we are fighting for second in the west the way I see it :wink:


First, nice to hear Rich Hall will give it a go this season!!!
Thing that scares me the most is endemic to the organization. Any franchise who picks up an out-of-work hobo from the southern coal mines to be their GM is sadly out of touch with today's reality. Lets get some facts straight - Drowsy Joe didn't select himself when drowned in sorrow, sitting on the park bench in Charlotte, sipping a begged coffee. Bomber management (at the time) went to an old demented coot named Paul Robson (who remembered a guy named Drowsy who worked as a scout under Cal Murphy). I can't believe Robson recommended to the board that Drowsy Joe be appointed GM.
Lyle Bauer may have been slightly (ok, much more than slightly) out of his mind but he had a minor-league infrastructure with Ross Hodgkinson as his fart-catcher and Brendan Taman working the phones. I would venture to say the organization was marginally better with demented sleep-walker Joe than Bauer, his bum buddy Maggot Kelly and Hodgkinson - especially when Kelly sent Taman packing.

At least the braintrust got Kyle Walters by accident.

As for the bombers having to sign a slug like Joe Mack - and why they would do it - that's easy! Nobody, but nobody wanted to come to Winnipeg. At the time it was a worse CFL enema than Regina. So you have to go outside the box and bring in hobos, nobos and bobos. Stuff happens. Winnipeg was robbed - moreso the Winnipeg fans who pay good money to see dead product. The coaches, GM, president, etc. are all well-compensated. Same with the top players of the time (Stegall, the Chinese fire drill at QB, Doug Brown, etc.)

Winnipeg is still recovering. The #1 choice of Halfasakitie was puzzling. Guy won't be more than a slightly bigger than average fireplug at nose tackle, perhaps a rotation guy once the coaches realize he can't sack and provide necessary corruption of opposing o-lines. #1 from a few years ago is done - Waggoner. A half-arsed starter with slightly above average special teams skills. Not a big loss - just hate the fact we burned a #1 pick on the guy.

Also don't like burning a wait 'n see pick on Geoff Gray, no matter how many guys had him as consensus #1 pick. Bombers ignored their most need spot - could have had Behar or Vandervoort at #1 (guaranteed starters) and either Spooner, Luke, etc. @ #6. Halfasakatie would definitely gone by the end of 1st round - so @ #15 we could have taken the requisite flyer on Gray. Vandervoort + Spooner or Luke would seem to fill more holes than Faith E. and a ghost pick #6. The saddest part is the bombers have to go to war without a legit Canadian WR, a maybe OL in the futures hopper and a slightly under-sized and under-powered pass rusher in Ekatatie.

Justin Cole cut - he got 11 sacks last year on a team that basically couldn't sack their groceries.

Questions about o-line coach absence. Questions abound about Rich Hall's health.

Also, if Matt Nichols drops down a few completion %'ge points, tosses a few more picks and gets sacked more - the bombers will be fortunate to snag 8 wins.

I'm picking them for either 5-13 or 6-12 with their upside being 8 wins

In other words a dogfight between Corky's Riders and O'Shea's tryers!
Last edited by Lyle B. Style on Sat May 13, 2017 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Another Bomber player retires from CFL

by papazoola » Sat May 13, 2017 9:50 am

Lyle B. Style wrote:

I'm picking them for either 5-13 or 6-12 with their upside being 8 wins

In other words a dogfight between Corky's Riders and O'Shea's tryers!


.....You're putting too much faith in Corky ,Lyle....IF they win a couple of games more than they did last year, I'll be surprised :lol: ..I'm picking Bombers to go 12-6....Walters has put together some pretty nice pieces in the offseason and it will bear fruit this year...

....I can't disagree with anything you said about Dozey Joe......This man put us behind years and it'll be a little while yet till full recovery...Don't know what the hell the Al's organization seen him BUT he's their problem now....

.....I'm still smarting over the fact we didn't get Danny V.....BUT we didn't do that badly considering ...Certainly better than the Als. where 'sleepy' now draws a cheque :wink:
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Re: Another Bomber player retires from CFL

by Lyle B. Style » Sat May 13, 2017 10:19 am

Papa - the reason Drowsy Dopey Elmer Fudd-Mack arrived in Montreal is virtually the same as when Asper & Cooty Robson brought him into Winnipeg.

THEY SIMPLY DIDN'T HAVE ANYONE ELSE WHO WOULD TAKE THE JOB!

That's it, pure and simple!

Kavis Reed was a surprise pick as GM in montreal as the turmoil surrounding the Jim Popp lynching grew into a furor. Reed was seen as the next Ed Hervey - a former player who served as an assistant coach, a position coach, did a bit of scouting and had an aborted run as a volatile head coach.

Reed obviously didn't have much of a rol-o-dex, so he scrambled like the dickens to find a guy who had some knowledge of the CFL, scouting and NCAA player piplelines. Everyone else was drawing a cheque - Drowsy Dopey wasn't. But at least Mack is an underling in Montreal. If he can find 1 or 2 good players down south he'll have served his purpose. Mack was obviously ostracized at the CIS draft - his reputation precedes him!
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Re: Another Bomber player retires from CFL

by LeStaf » Thu May 18, 2017 9:17 am

Lyle B. Style wrote:Papa - the reason Drowsy Dopey Elmer Fudd-Mack arrived in Montreal is virtually the same as when Asper & Cooty Robson brought him into Winnipeg.

THEY SIMPLY DIDN'T HAVE ANYONE ELSE WHO WOULD TAKE THE JOB!

That's it, pure and simple!

Kavis Reed was a surprise pick as GM in montreal as the turmoil surrounding the Jim Popp lynching grew into a furor. Reed was seen as the next Ed Hervey - a former player who served as an assistant coach, a position coach, did a bit of scouting and had an aborted run as a volatile head coach.

Reed obviously didn't have much of a rol-o-dex, so he scrambled like the dickens to find a guy who had some knowledge of the CFL, scouting and NCAA player piplelines. Everyone else was drawing a cheque - Drowsy Dopey wasn't. But at least Mack is an underling in Montreal. If he can find 1 or 2 good players down south he'll have served his purpose. His was obviously ostracized at the CIS draft - as his reputation precedes him!


Bien que cette analyse de ce qui a amené Mack à Montréal soit rigoureusement exacte, ce n'est pas lui qui était en charge du repêchage. C'est Éric Deslauriers qui a hérité de cette tâche. Mack l'assistait dans l'évaluation des joueurs, mais les sélections ont été faites par Deslauriers et Reed. Nous verrons avec le temps la qualité ou l'absence de qualité de ce repêchage, mais dans les circonstances (les Alouettes n'avaient pas de choix en première ronde), je crois qu'ils ont assez bien sélectionné. Foote vient donner de la profondeur à une position qui devient névralgique chez les Alouettes, Wright vient donner une option à l'équipe chez les demis défensifs, position où le personnel canadien manquait cruellement après le départ de Brouillette et le renvoi de Coady et Alex Morrison a été un receveur qui se démarquait. Il manque un peu de constance, mais c'est quelque chose qui s'apprend (Adarius Bowman, par exemple). Je ne fonde pas de grands espoirs sur les choix de 4ième ronde et moins, mais on ne sait jamais. Luc Brodeur-Jourdain était un choix de 6ième ronde, le tout dernier de cette année-là.
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Re: Another Bomber player retires from CFL

by papazoola » Fri May 19, 2017 12:48 pm

LeStaf wrote:
Lyle B. Style wrote:Papa - the reason Drowsy Dopey Elmer Fudd-Mack arrived in Montreal is virtually the same as when Asper & Cooty Robson brought him into Winnipeg.

THEY SIMPLY DIDN'T HAVE ANYONE ELSE WHO WOULD TAKE THE JOB!

That's it, pure and simple!

Kavis Reed was a surprise pick as GM in montreal as the turmoil surrounding the Jim Popp lynching grew into a furor. Reed was seen as the next Ed Hervey - a former player who served as an assistant coach, a position coach, did a bit of scouting and had an aborted run as a volatile head coach.

Reed obviously didn't have much of a rol-o-dex, so he scrambled like the dickens to find a guy who had some knowledge of the CFL, scouting and NCAA player piplelines. Everyone else was drawing a cheque - Drowsy Dopey wasn't. But at least Mack is an underling in Montreal. If he can find 1 or 2 good players down south he'll have served his purpose. His was obviously ostracized at the CIS draft - as his reputation precedes him!


Bien que cette analyse de ce qui a amené Mack à Montréal soit rigoureusement exacte, ce n'est pas lui qui était en charge du repêchage. C'est Éric Deslauriers qui a hérité de cette tâche. Mack l'assistait dans l'évaluation des joueurs, mais les sélections ont été faites par Deslauriers et Reed. Nous verrons avec le temps la qualité ou l'absence de qualité de ce repêchage, mais dans les circonstances (les Alouettes n'avaient pas de choix en première ronde), je crois qu'ils ont assez bien sélectionné. Foote vient donner de la profondeur à une position qui devient névralgique chez les Alouettes, Wright vient donner une option à l'équipe chez les demis défensifs, position où le personnel canadien manquait cruellement après le départ de Brouillette et le renvoi de Coady et Alex Morrison a été un receveur qui se démarquait. Il manque un peu de constance, mais c'est quelque chose qui s'apprend (Adarius Bowman, par exemple). Je ne fonde pas de grands espoirs sur les choix de 4ième ronde et moins, mais on ne sait jamais. Luc Brodeur-Jourdain était un choix de 6ième ronde, le tout dernier de cette année-là.



......Ol sleepy might not have been in charge of the draft LeStaf, but he surely had input and that should be enough for concern :lol: Not having a first rounder definitely hurt the Als. and it's tough to back in once you deal out of it without giving up too much...If we are all being honest it will take some time to see who did well in the draft....Sometimes latter round pics excel over the one's considered to be the top choice....So we'll all wait and watch to see who did well...all I can say about Mack is that his pics for us were ...lets say'''leaving a lot to be desired'''...Good thing he didn't have full control of yours :wink:
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Re: Another Bomber player retires from CFL

by LeStaf » Fri May 19, 2017 2:30 pm

papazoola wrote:......Ol sleepy might not have been in charge of the draft LeStaf, but he surely had input and that should be enough for concern :lol: Not having a first rounder definitely hurt the Als. and it's tough to back in once you deal out of it without giving up too much...If we are all being honest it will take some time to see who did well in the draft....Sometimes latter round pics excel over the one's considered to be the top choice....So we'll all wait and watch to see who did well...all I can say about Mack is that his pics for us were ...lets say'''leaving a lot to be desired'''...Good thing he didn't have full control of yours :wink:


Absolument. Les repêchages de Mack n'ont pas souvent été heureux, s'ils l'ont seulement été même une fois! C'était d'ailleurs parmi les messages que j'ai passés à Kavis Reed. Gardez le sur le qui-vive, suivez-le de près et demandez son avis, mais pour les repêchages, ne pas trop s'y fier.

Ceci dit, Mack a trouvé de bons joueurs américains pour les Blue Bombers et je crois que c'est surtout là que son apport était recherché. Reed n'avait pas (ou si peu) de réseau de recrutement aux USA que l'embauche de son ami Mack lui en procurait un instantanément. Maintenant, il va pouvoir développer le sien. Ceci dit, je ne sais pas combien de temps le contrat de Mack va durer, mais j'aimerais que Reed essaye de le remplacer par Ed Hervey, qui me semble en avoir un meilleur. Mais comme c'est Hervey qui a congédié Kavis à Edmonton, je ne compterai pas là-dessus. De toute façon, il semble que Hervey ne soit pas tout à fait le "joueur d'équipe" que les Wetenhall recherchent... Mais c'est un foutu bon recruteur!
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Re: Another Bomber player retires from CFL

by papazoola » Fri May 19, 2017 3:48 pm

LeStaf wrote:
papazoola wrote:......Ol sleepy might not have been in charge of the draft LeStaf, but he surely had input and that should be enough for concern :lol: Not having a first rounder definitely hurt the Als. and it's tough to back in once you deal out of it without giving up too much...If we are all being honest it will take some time to see who did well in the draft....Sometimes latter round pics excel over the one's considered to be the top choice....So we'll all wait and watch to see who did well...all I can say about Mack is that his pics for us were ...lets say'''leaving a lot to be desired'''...Good thing he didn't have full control of yours :wink:


Absolument. Les repêchages de Mack n'ont pas souvent été heureux, s'ils l'ont seulement été même une fois! C'était d'ailleurs parmi les messages que j'ai passés à Kavis Reed. Gardez le sur le qui-vive, suivez-le de près et demandez son avis, mais pour les repêchages, ne pas trop s'y fier.

Ceci dit, Mack a trouvé de bons joueurs américains pour les Blue Bombers et je crois que c'est surtout là que son apport était recherché. Reed n'avait pas (ou si peu) de réseau de recrutement aux USA que l'embauche de son ami Mack lui en procurait un instantanément. Maintenant, il va pouvoir développer le sien. Ceci dit, je ne sais pas combien de temps le contrat de Mack va durer, mais j'aimerais que Reed essaye de le remplacer par Ed Hervey, qui me semble en avoir un meilleur. Mais comme c'est Hervey qui a congédié Kavis à Edmonton, je ne compterai pas là-dessus. De toute façon, il semble que Hervey ne soit pas tout à fait le "joueur d'équipe" que les Wetenhall recherchent... Mais c'est un foutu bon recruteur!


......Can't disagree that Mack's strength is with American recruiting....something Popp did very well and that had to be replaced....I would say this was mostly the reason 'sleepy' was brought on board and if he sticks with that, he should turn up a few quality players for you guys...Forget Hervey...in his case 'all is not what it appears to be' :wink:
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