Offense 2010

[Niagara Als]

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[Niagara Als]

Watkins has been the big play man for the Als for several years. Unfortunately the fact that he does not catch every pass thrown his way diminishes him with some people. Remember the first TD catch this year - Watkins. Remember the clutch catch in their winning Grey Cup- Watkins. Historically Watkins has to be one elite receivers ever to be an Al!!!

[HfxTC]

Most of the passes he drops are when he turns his back to the defense and sits. It makes him uncomfortable. At least that's how I see it.

[disciplineandpunish]

Most of the passes he drops are when he turns his back to the defense and sits. It makes him uncomfortable. At least that's how I see it.

Interesting. I hadn't noticed that pattern in his drops. Maybe he doesn't like knowing he's going to get hit when he can't see the tackler.

[disciplineandpunish]

According to today's Gazette article Santiago saw the field even after the unsportsmanlike penalty. Evidently Trestman didn't bear a grudge, even though Santiago took the 13th man penalty later in the game.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/S ... story.html

[disciplineandpunish]

So is Trestman going to wait until after Calvillo suffers a serious injury to start using Cobourne more regularly?

[HfxTC]

So is Trestman going to wait until after Calvillo suffers a serious injury to start using Cobourne more regularly?

Looks like he prefers to use Cobourne as a 180 pound offensive linesman rather then let the biggest Oline in the league do a little pounding.

[disciplineandpunish]

Looks like he prefers to use Cobourne as a 180 pound offensive linesman rather then let the biggest Oline in the league do a little pounding.

It's downright insane that after probably our strongest week of offensive football (against Toronto), Trestman & Milanovich go right back to what wasn't working by ignoring the run and failing to establish a ground game early.

I have never seen a coach so quick to give up on the run if it's not yielding big gains early in the game. It's ridiculous. To me, if your back is gaining at least 4 yards on most first-down carries, you run the ball down the other team's throat! And if he's got good hands, as Cobourne does, get him involved in the short passing game as well!

With all due respect to the Riders, last night's game didn't need to be as close as it was. If we'd had even the semblance of a balanced attack in the second half, we could have put it away by the start of the fourth quarter.

[Niagara Als]

DP you are right- we need only look at Toronto using Boyd last night.

[disciplineandpunish]

DP you are right- we need only look at Toronto using Boyd last night.

It boggles my mind that Trestman, who has an extensive NFL background, is so reluctant to run the ball. I'm not familiar with his work in Oakland during the Gannon-Rice era -- was it purely West Coast? Was he like Andy Reid in Philadelphia, making McNabb drop back a billion times per game even with a star running back like Westbrook in the backfield?

We dodged yet another bullet this week with Calvillo's finger, but I would bet money that if we don't wise up soon and start giving Cobourne the rock, Calvillo will suffer an injury and be forced to miss one or more games.

[BC-]

It boggles my mind that Trestman, who has an extensive NFL background, is so reluctant to run the ball. I'm not familiar with his work in Oakland during the Gannon-Rice era -- was it purely West Coast?

That is actually a pretty good question by DP... I didn't pay enough attention to the raiders offense at the time, but just researched the stats out of curiosity.

Mark Trestman was offensive coordinator for the raiders in 2002 and 2003. His best year was 2002 where the Raiders had one of the best offenses in the league and went to the Superbowl. QB Rich Gannon was league MVP. Some stats below (the similarity with Als stats is amazing).


- Team 1st for passing yards
- Team 2nd for points scored
- Team 2nd for pass attempts
- Team tied for 2nd for least interceptions
- Team 2nd for team QB rating
- Team 23rd for rush attempts
- Jerry Rice was 9th in the league for receptions ...followed by RB Charlie Garner 10th and WR Tim Brown 16th
- RB Charlie Garner 962 yards rushing and 941 yards receiving


There has been many comments regarding the play selection of the Als this year, not only on this forum but also by the local press. Although, many of these comments are valid, I think it is important to say that Mark Trestman has been consistent at sticking to a philosophy which has served him well (and many other succesful coaches, including Bill Walsh) in the past years. For the only sake of demonstrating my point, here are some of the basic principles of the west coast offense :

- As opposed to more conventional offenses preceding the west coast offense which used to run first to eventually setup the pass, the west coast offense philosophy was to pass first in order to setup the run

- Based on the principle above, west coast offense coaches would go for short passes on first down in order to achieve the same result as other run-minded coaches who would run the ball on first down to attempt getting 4-5 yards. West Coast offense coaches are often of the opinion that is easier to pass the ball for five yards then to run it for the same gain, basically it's a different means to achieve the same result.

- As opposed to most offenses of the time which ran the ball early and focused on passing when behind in the score, the philosophy of the west coast offense was to pass the ball early to get the lead and then rundown the clock with the running game.

- As opposed to the other revolutionary pass offense of the 80s, the Air-Coryell type offense, which spread the field vertically with a couple deep threats on every play, the west coast offense philosophy was aimed at spreading the field horizontally with short routes in the intermediate zones.

- In order to make the short routes most successful, the short routes were designed to be precisely timed with the dropback steps of the QB...after the QB takes his last step, he winds up, throws the ball, the receiver then makes his cut and the ball is right there for him.



Some of the proven benefits of the west coast offense just happen to be well suited for Als personnel, as


- It is better suited for QBs with average arm strength but high accuracy, as it focuses on short passes.

- It is better suited for experienced receiver which may be past their prime as far as speed, but run accurate patterns, read well the defense and adjust patterns accordingly, and also have good hands

- It is better suited for less dominating offensive lines, as the ball is released quickly which lessens the time that the line needs to maintain the pass protection pocket

- It is well suited for teams with much depth at wide receiver positions and running backs with good receiving skills as many receivers get the ball as part of the philosophy to force the defense to defend the entire width of the field

Based on the above, although I see the validity of comments expressed by many fans and the press with regards to the play selection, I feel that the system we currently use has proven itself has sound and many teams, including the Als, have won championships with these.

[LeStaf]

Based on the above, although I see the validity of comments expressed by many fans and the press with regards to the play selection, I feel that the system we currently use has proven itself has sound and many teams, including the Als, have won championships with these.

Ces points sont très intéressants et collent presqu'à la perfection à l'attaque des Alouettes.

Un petit point au sujet de la Coupe Grey 2010. Les Alouettes en arrachaient à en faire pitié. Qu'est-ce que les Alouettes ont fait pour se sortir de leur merdier et remettre l'attaque en marche? Ils ont remis le ballon à Cobourne! Alors les Alouettes ont gagné un championnat, mais ce n'est pas à proprement parler la Weast Cost Offense qui les ont fait se rendre au dernier jeu de la partie et gagner.

[LeStaf]

Based on the above, although I see the validity of comments expressed by many fans and the press with regards to the play selection, I feel that the system we currently use has proven itself has sound and many teams, including the Als, have won championships with these.

Ces points sont très intéressants et collent presqu'à la perfection à l'attaque des Alouettes.

Un petit point au sujet de la Coupe Grey 2010. Les Alouettes en arrachaient à en faire pitié. Qu'est-ce que les Alouettes ont fait pour se sortir de leur merdier et remettre l'attaque en marche? Ils ont remis le ballon à Cobourne! Alors les Alouettes ont gagné un championnat, mais ce n'est pas à proprement parler la Weast Cost Offense qui les ont fait se rendre au dernier jeu de la partie et gagner.

Je voulais dire "... de la Coupe Grey 2009." Pardon.

[disciplineandpunish]

BC, thanks for the post on WC offenses. I myself am conversant with the West Coast style, but your post revealed a number of details about this system of which I wasn't aware. Very illuminating, thanks.

Now, on the viability of a West Coast offense for our Als, I will agree with a few other posters and note that we didn't win the Grey Cup by ignoring our running back. In fact, every time we got in a hole last season, our running back bailed us out. I think back to our first regular-season meeting against Sask in 2009. We did nothing in the first quarter and through most of the second. It was only when we got Cobourne involved in the offense that we started to take control of the game and the LOS.

A West Coast philosophy is fine in general, because it does suit our players, but no system, no matter how well-tailored to your team, works all the time. You have to be flexible on the ground, recognize in-game when something isn't working and make your adjustments accordingly. What used to be a strength last season -- the ability to adjust at the half -- has been exposed as a glaring weakness in both the Rider games, where we shot out to a sizable lead at halftime but sputtered in the second half out of a stubborn refusal to commit to the run (obviously not the only reason we lost game one; the defense went to sleep as well).

Were it not for Avon Cobourne's MVP performance in the 2009 Grey Cup, Trestman wouldn't have a championship today, West Coast style or not. Yet we persist in making one of our most lethal weapons an afterthought in our offense game in and game out. It's starting to look weird and crazy from where I'm sitting.

[Niagara Als]

BC, interesting comments on the West Coast offense especially as it relates to Trestman and the Als.