Ligne offensive

Re: Ligne offensive

by disciplineandpunish » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:30 pm

HfxTC wrote:Not passing moral judgement but he can't then hide behind that trade for his failure as a HC in Edmonton.


Well, I'd need you to provide evidence that he's been "hiding" behind that trade when talking about his time in Edmonton. But even so, it's still plausible and coherent. I suspect Tillman made Reed do a bunch of gruntwork but stepped in every once in a while and royally effed things up (as with the Ray trade).
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Re: Ligne offensive

by HfxTC » Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:18 pm

disciplineandpunish wrote:
HfxTC wrote:Not passing moral judgement but he can't then hide behind that trade for his failure as a HC in Edmonton.


Well, I'd need you to provide evidence that he's been "hiding" behind that trade when talking about his time in Edmonton. But even so, it's still plausible and coherent. I suspect Tillman made Reed do a bunch of gruntwork but stepped in every once in a while and royally effed things up (as with the Ray trade).



Reed was supportive of the trade when it was made, then was evasive when the season went down the drain and then passed the blame on Tillman when he was fired.

At time of trade

“There was a great deal of conversation between Kavis (head coach Reed) and myself over the last six or seven days,” said Tillman. “We’re talking about Ricky Ray, not only in terms of what he’s accomplished as a player, but a kind of person that he is. This is not a decision you make lightly.

“Ultimately, you have to have the courage to do what is right both in the long-term and short-term view,” said Tillma. “We believe this trade is a win-win. Toronto’s getting an outstanding player who can create a real energy in that city — a very important marketplace in our league.”

“We’re getting younger at quarterback with mobility and dimension,” said Tillman. “As we talked about from the beginning of our tenure, we put an emphasis on Canadian content. Teams that win in this league, certainly one of the major components is a strong Canadian content.

“We believe Grant can be a long-time Eskimo. With the No. 1 pick, it gives us two of the first six picks. We think we can strengthen an area we strengthened substantially last year.”

Both Tillman and Reed believe either Matt Nichols or Eric Ward have the potential to be starters in the CFL. Kerry Joseph is also under contract and Tillman said the team would bring in a fifth quarterback to training camp.
“We believe Kerry can be a starter,” Eskimos coach Kavis Reed insisted. “Kerry will come in and compete for that starting position.

“I think Kerry is a 39-year-old quarterback with a 24-year-old’s body. We’re not at all concerned that if he wins the job, he cannot survive through an 18- or 20-game season.”


Six months after the trade

During Friday’s pre-game press conference with Eskimos head coach Kavis Reed, Gene Principe of Sportsnet threw a hardball in Reed’s direction.

“I’m assuming Eric Tillman has the final call on trades,” he began. “But if it were up to you, would you have liked to have kept Ricky?”

The tension ratcheted up a few notches in the room. Reed laughed a somewhat uncomfortable laugh and said what he always says when he gets asked a question he doesn’t like.


“You know Gene, I love you,” the coach said, drawing laughs out of the people in the media centre at Commonwealth Stadium. “I’ll still send you a Christmas card.”

He went on to answer the question, in a roundabout way.

“Ricky has been an absolute professional. His numbers speak for himself and there’s no secret that I loved working with Ricky.

“The decision was made to trade Ricky Ray and as a head coach, my job is to work with what we have. We have the utmost respect for Ricky. Did I love working with him? Absolutely, no question about it.

“As a part of this franchise, my job is to make certain, the most important thing is that I look at what we have to work with to be competitive on the field.”

His answer complete, Reed looked over at Principe and said, “I did the politically correct thing in avoiding your question.”

He may have tried to avoid it, but what he didn’t say said a lot. Reed could have just said, yes, he would have done the same thing and traded Ray. The matter would have been squashed and the press conference would have rolled along. Life has rolled along in the six months since the trade and today Ray and the Argos will go into Commonwealth, looking for a win to start their season.

A not-half-bad coach, Reed will work with what he’s got in front of him today to try to put this six-month-old, all-consuming story to bed.


After Tillman was fired

That’s what Edmonton Eskimos’ head coach Kavis Reed said in the meeting about trading away Ricky Ray.

“You would be putting the franchise at risk to the extent it may take five to 10 years to find and develop a quarterback to replace Ricky Ray.”

The Eskimos are out of the playoffs and Ray has moved on to Sunday’s Eastern Division final with the hope of getting the Toronto Argonauts to the Grey Cup.

And back in Edmonton, coach Kavis Reed wants Ray to know that the way his trade went down was not the way it was presented at the time or during the season.

As for the Eskimos, with whoever is going to be general manager and coach next year, it says here the fans, more than anybody, need to know what really happened. The way GM Eric Tillman presented it wasn’t remotely close to what happened, because whatever happens next in Edmonton is going to require a patience which wouldn’t be necessary if the Eskimos still had a championship-calibre quarterback like Ray.

It has become known that it was very heated in that room that day with Eric Tillman, Kavis Reed, outgoing CEO Rick LeLacheur and incoming CEO Len Rhodes.

It is believed that any of the explosive eruptions involving Reed on the sidelines during the season paled compared to his response in that room.

Knowing some of the details from other sources, your correspondent suggested to Reed by phone that it needs to come out now that the Eskimos season is over because it’s going to come out eventually.

It was also suggested it needs to come out now while Reed is contemplating his options: to remain as coach; take over as GM; become GM-coach; or move on.

And it needs to come out now before Ray wins Sunday to get back into the Grey Cup, if that should happen, and it then sounds like revisionist history.

Facing a non-confidence reaction from the fans who led the league in attendance, despite everything that happened in the turbulent season, if there was ever a time for transparency, this is it.

Reed agreed but with trepidation.

“I don’t want this to sound like I’m blabbing what went on at a meeting, because that isn’t professional. But the way Eric presented it at the time and during the season was that I was supportive of making that trade. I was not.”

Reed wouldn’t say it but other sources suggest that Tillman pressed the point the president shouldn’t tell the GM what to do about football operations. Timing wasn’t exactly ideal for either LeLacheur or Rhodes with one having one foot out the door and the other 11 days into the job to replace him.

“When we were in that room, Rick and Len listened. I said we’d probably be putting our franchise in danger for the next five to 10 years if we traded Ricky Ray away.

“At the time, I was not agreeable with the decision. Realizing Ricky is a franchise quarterback, it was very difficult to say I’m willing to start over with another quarterback.

“It is critically important for the franchise that we all agree stability being the most important thing. We must follow the change of command and make sure the franchise is intact. When a decision is made we must all appear of the same accord.”

It was Reed who called Ray.

“I called Ricky in California and told him that he was traded. He expressed his disappointment and I told him that he did everything right as an Edmonton Eskimo and that the franchise was indebted to him.”

He didn’t tell him that he was violently against the action.

“Eric was going to speak to the agent. I didn’t want say anything different than he was saying with the agent.”

Saturday Ray said he always kind of believed that was probably the way it went down.

“When I got the call from him, he did say something like ‘It wasn’t really my call.’ He didn’t say a lot, but I knew.”

Reed, I believe, stood up as much as he could. But in the end he was the coach and the job of the coach is to coach the players the general manager gives him to coach.

“It was a very difficult situation in the locker-room. Ricky was the centre piece of our football team. To see the king’s head cut off, I think a lot of our players wondered if they were safe and if the ship were rudderless. But they quickly got over it,” said Reed.

Reed, of course, spent the rest of the season massaging players feelings about the quarterback who was starting the next game, but good luck getting a quote from him on that.

Reed says he’s now hopeful he’s going to be wrong about that five to 10 years thing.

“All signs are that Matt Nichols could be the guy. It may not work out. None of us can say for sure. Are people patient enough to develop Matt Nichols? Nobody is going to trade us Travis Lulay ... or Ricky Ray.”

All Reed knows for sure right now is that he’s going to be cheering for Ricky Ray Sunday.

“Absolutely. I gave him a hug after the game. Ricky is a class act. In one year’s time of coaching him, I loved everything he’s about and how he approaches football.

“I’d like to see him have success in the post-season.”

Reed says he’s happy with the idea that Eskimo fans will likely be cheering for No. 15 this weekend, too.

“He deserves it.”
Everything I write is just an opinion formed from various sources. Some more reliable than others, it is expressed as a composite of facts, innuendos, emotions, personal experiences and complete fabulation into a gumbo for entertainment purposes alone.
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Re: Ligne offensive

by disciplineandpunish » Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:33 pm

And that is absolutely normal. You seriously think he could have spoken his mind at the time of the trade?
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Re: Ligne offensive

by HfxTC » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:24 pm

disciplineandpunish wrote:And that is absolutely normal. You seriously think he could have spoken his mind at the time of the trade?


Yes
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Re: Ligne offensive

by LeStaf » Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:43 pm

HfxTC wrote:
disciplineandpunish wrote:And that is absolutely normal. You seriously think he could have spoken his mind at the time of the trade?


Yes


Humainement, je ne crois pas. Il y a peu de postes disponibles dans ce métier et je crois qu'il ne se serait pas fait des amis en contestant publiquement une décision de son supérieur immédiat. Pour un futur DG, il serait devenu un candidat à risque. Il a pu faire connaître en privé son désaccord, mais si la décision officielle de l'organisation était de faire l'échange quand même, pour le bien de l'équipe il lui était préférable de ne pas provoquer davantage de controverse.

De la même manière, il a gardé le silence sur le congédiement de Popp même si les média ont rapporté par la suite qu'il était au courant lorsqu'on le lui avait demandé.

De prétendre qu'il pouvait alors décider de rompre subitement son emploi pour une telle question (puisque c'est aussi ça que ça voudrait dire) m'apparaît un peu trop rigide. C'est une exigence trop lourde, encore plus que nous ne connaissons pas quelle était sa situation familiale, sa situation de fortune, ses expectatives de travail, ses objectifs professionnels à moyen et long terme, etc.
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Re: Ligne offensive

by HfxTC » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:41 pm

Kavis was coming off an 11-7 season. There was no way Tillman could pull the trigger on that trade without Kavis going along. He threw Ray under the bus. Compare that to Milanovich who told Barker there was no way he was trading or cutting Ray. You think Popp could have imposed trading Calvillo on Trestman or Matthews ?

Obviously Tillman worked him over hard but in the end, he knew the move didn't make his team better but let it happen.
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Re: Ligne offensive

by idealsheldon » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:40 am

It`s not etched in stone that Olafioye will be the LT.

Reed said two imports would play tackle. Training camp will decide who plays the all-important left side. Olafioye, a 6-foot-6, 325-pounder, switched there last season and was named a Canadian Football League all-star for a sixth consecutive year. He also was named the league’s most outstanding offensive-lineman in 2012.

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/footb ... n-olafioye
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Re: Ligne offensive

by jamie » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:17 pm

Re Ray trade etc.
Despite all the hoopla about Ray trade and setting them back 5-10 years...
Three seasons after the trade they win the GC.
They freed up a lot of room ...ultimately enabling them to land Reilly.
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Re: Ligne offensive

by HfxTC » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:38 pm

jamie wrote:Re Ray trade etc.
Despite all the hoopla about Ray trade and setting them back 5-10 years...
Three seasons after the trade they win the GC.
They freed up a lot of room ...ultimately enabling them to land Reilly.


But they may have won that cup or another(s) with Ray anyway, we will never know.

I don't agree with your logic. The trade was what it was. a pick, Shaw and Jyles. Pick ended up never playing for the team so it ended up being Ray for Shaw and Jyles. One of the worst trades in CFL history.
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Re: Ligne offensive

by disciplineandpunish » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:12 pm

HfxTC wrote:Compare that to Milanovich who told Barker there was no way he was trading or cutting Ray. You think Popp could have imposed trading Calvillo on Trestman or Matthews ?


Not a useful example, because there is no way Popp would have been stupid enough to propose trading Calvillo on Trestman's watch. Also, do you have evidence that Milanovich refused Barker's attempt to ditch Ray?

I think Tillman made the trade and forced Reed to go along with it. Does Reed have private regrets about it? I'm sure. But he was a young HC in a tough spot. In retrospect maybe he realizes he should have stood up to Tillman but that's a very easy thing to spot in hindsight.
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