2017 Discussion

2017 Discussion

by disciplineandpunish » Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:29 pm

OK, folks. Let's think about the year ahead instead of the travesty of a year in progress. What do you think is going to happen in the offseason? What should happen?

I still feel that as much as Popp should go, they will retain him as GM, hire Chapdelaine as the permanent HC, and try to maintain status quo as much as possible. I hope I'm wrong.
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Re: 2017 Discussion

by GHT120 » Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:01 pm

disciplineandpunish wrote:OK, folks. Let's think about the year ahead instead of the travesty of a year in progress. What do you think is going to happen in the offseason? What should happen?

I still feel that as much as Popp should go, they will retain him as GM, hire Chapdelaine as the permanent HC, and try to maintain status quo as much as possible. I hope I'm wrong.


Likely. But as accepting of the status quo (failure?) as that would be, Having Popp fulltime as GM and nowhere on the coaching staff it would be a better coaching situation than last training camp
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Re: 2017 Discussion

by RougeMe » Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:46 pm

After 4 seasons of really, really, crappy football, the last thing the Alouettes can sell to their fans in 2017 is the status quo.

If the organization commits to a thoughtful, top-to-bottom rebuild, curiosity alone will bring me back in 2017 - win or lose. But if all they can muster is a window-dressing shuffle, I won't be the only one heading for the exits.
Last edited by RougeMe on Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2017 Discussion

by cahoonrules86 » Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:48 pm

A Quarterback...Cato doesn't have it.
An Oline
A DC
A HC...not sold on Chap
An OC

And and and....a GM!!!
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Re: 2017 Discussion

by disciplineandpunish » Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:32 am

RougeMe wrote:After 4 seasons of really, really, crappy football, the last thing the Alouettes can sell to their fans in 2017 is the status quo.

If the organization commits to a thoughtful, top-to-bottom rebuild, curiosity alone will bring me back in 2017 - win or lose. But if all they can muster is a window-dressing shuffle, I won't be the only one heading for the exits.


Agreed, but the question, for me, is: do the Wetenhalls see this? Do they understand that their hold on fan loyalty in Montreal is balanced on the edge of a knife? Or are they just going to do what they've been doing for years now -- slapping band-aids on hemorrhaging wounds and seizing on whatever false indicators let them continue to believe that everything is basically fine?

The litmus test will be what they do with Popp. If they fire him from the org in all capacities, I will be convinced that they have turned a corner. If, however, they rationalize bringing him back as GM, it feels like it will just be more of the same. At which point, as I said above, I'll have no choice but to hope that Popp has had some sense kicked into him.

I mean, if they brought him back but demanded that he move back to Montreal full-time and clean out his scouting ranks, I might be convinced, but I have a bad feeling that Popp is going to be here again next year.
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Re: 2017 Discussion

by AlsPal » Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:59 pm

cahoonrules86 wrote:A Quarterback...Cato doesn't have it.
An Oline
A DC
A HC...not sold on Chap
An OC

And and and....a GM!!!

I would like to see a true competition at the qb spot.

Even on TSN last night they were utterly confused as to why Adams wasn't getting a chance to play.

I mean, did Popp not trade a first for him? If he was utter crap then why trade what looks likely to be a really high pick for him?

I like Cato, I think he has talent, but I'm not sold he has what it takes between the ears. Him running to the sidelines and sulking away from the team isn't exactly inspiring.
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Re: 2017 Discussion

by Johnny Ticat slayer » Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:14 pm

AlsPal wrote:
cahoonrules86 wrote:A Quarterback...Cato doesn't have it.
An Oline
A DC
A HC...not sold on Chap
An OC

And and and....a GM!!!

I would like to see a true competition at the qb spot.

Even on TSN last night they were utterly confused as to why Adams wasn't getting a chance to play.

I mean, did Popp not trade a first for him? If he was utter crap then why trade what looks likely to be a really high pick for him?

I like Cato, I think he has talent, but I'm not sold he has what it takes between the ears. Him running to the sidelines and sulking away from the team isn't exactly inspiring.


Adams had a training camp and 3/4 of a season with the team. Johnny isn't expecting him to walk onto the field and play at a high level. But, it is very discouraging that he seems to be not ready to play a few snaps.
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Re: 2017 Discussion

by disciplineandpunish » Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:18 pm

Adams is in his first year as a pro. There is no way he should be taking snaps as the starter barring injury. That's not how you develop anyone. Give Cato the rest of the season and give AC EXPLICIT instructions to keep him calm and cool during games. Someone else can be in the spotter's booth.
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Re: 2017 Discussion

by tony » Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:56 pm

disciplineandpunish wrote:
RougeMe wrote:After 4 seasons of really, really, crappy football, the last thing the Alouettes can sell to their fans in 2017 is the status quo.

If the organization commits to a thoughtful, top-to-bottom rebuild, curiosity alone will bring me back in 2017 - win or lose. But if all they can muster is a window-dressing shuffle, I won't be the only one heading for the exits.


Agreed, but the question, for me, is: do the Wetenhalls see this? Do they understand that their hold on fan loyalty in Montreal is balanced on the edge of a knife? Or are they just going to do what they've been doing for years now -- slapping band-aids on hemorrhaging wounds and seizing on whatever false indicators let them continue to believe that everything is basically fine?

The litmus test will be what they do with Popp. If they fire him from the org in all capacities, I will be convinced that they have turned a corner. If, however, they rationalize bringing him back as GM, it feels like it will just be more of the same. At which point, as I said above, I'll have no choice but to hope that Popp has had some sense kicked into him.

I mean, if they brought him back but demanded that he move back to Montreal full-time and clean out his scouting ranks, I might be convinced, but I have a bad feeling that Popp is going to be here again next year.



If the Wettenhals are not clued in to what's happening, they must have their heads buried in the sand.

Here's a quick and easy way to see how the fan base is feeling right about now. How many Season Tickets for 2017 have been sold? Is it up over the number sold at this point last year?
I am guessing no but again it's a guess.

If it's me, this is a complete rebuild starting with a new GM and a full fledge search for a HC. Said it before, Chaps is not my HC for this team next year. After watching last nights dismal performance by the Offense, his reluctance to make any change at the QB to try and get something going.

If the Wettenhals stay status quo, it will be tough to come back and watch next year.
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Re: 2017 Discussion

by GHT120 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:54 pm

disciplineandpunish wrote:Adams is in his first year as a pro. There is no way he should be taking snaps as the starter barring injury. That's not how you develop anyone. Give Cato the rest of the season and give AC EXPLICIT instructions to keep him calm and cool during games. Someone else can be in the spotter's booth.

Agreed. Fans are impatient but development of players often requires patience.
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Re: 2017 Discussion

by RougeMe » Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:50 pm

If we strip away the sentimental, emotional, and human relationship aspects of being a CFL owner, the Wetenhalls are simply investors. Investors seek to maximize ROI (return on investment). And like all investors, they are limited to 3 generic strategies:

(1) HOLD - This essentially is the status quo option, where key management (especially GM) and most coaches are retained, perhaps some job descriptions are redefined.

(2) INVEST - A thorough rebuild of the organization - GM, scouting staff, coaching, and some fan favorite (but aging) players. A modest investment in money, but a significant investment of time and effort. A larger investment would include improving the team's practice facilities, and ending the demoralizing and time-wasting bus rides around the city. And the largest investment includes establishing stadium conditions that make Grey Cup games viable in Montreal.

(3) DIVEST - Find a new owner and cash out.

Given what we have all witnessed for the past 4 seasons on the field, can anyone explain how Option 1 (HOLD) yields the highest ROI for the Wetenhalls?
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Re: 2017 Discussion

by disciplineandpunish » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:40 pm

It doesn't, but investors can be stupid / make mistakes / have egregious lapses in judgment just like everyone else.
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Re: 2017 Discussion

by tony » Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:10 am

RougeMe wrote:If we strip away the sentimental, emotional, and human relationship aspects of being a CFL owner, the Wetenhalls are simply investors. Investors seek to maximize ROI (return on investment). And like all investors, they are limited to 3 generic strategies:

(1) HOLD - This essentially is the status quo option, where key management (especially GM) and most coaches are retained, perhaps some job descriptions are redefined.

(2) INVEST - A thorough rebuild of the organization - GM, scouting staff, coaching, and some fan favorite (but aging) players. A modest investment in money, but a significant investment of time and effort. A larger investment would include improving the team's practice facilities, and ending the demoralizing and time-wasting bus rides around the city. And the largest investment includes establishing stadium conditions that make Grey Cup games viable in Montreal.

(3) DIVEST - Find a new owner and cash out.

Given what we have all witnessed for the past 4 seasons on the field, can anyone explain how Option 1 (HOLD) yields the highest ROI for the Wetenhalls?



Forgive me, but this is not the NFL. How much money will an owner make with a CFL team?
At best the Wettenhals were coming away breaking even or slightly ahead when they were having playoff games at the Big O.
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Re: 2017 Discussion

by RougeMe » Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:52 am

tony wrote:
RougeMe wrote:If we strip away the sentimental, emotional, and human relationship aspects of being a CFL owner, the Wetenhalls are simply investors. Investors seek to maximize ROI (return on investment). And like all investors, they are limited to 3 generic strategies:

(1) HOLD - This essentially is the status quo option, where key management (especially GM) and most coaches are retained, perhaps some job descriptions are redefined.

(2) INVEST - A thorough rebuild of the organization - GM, scouting staff, coaching, and some fan favorite (but aging) players. A modest investment in money, but a significant investment of time and effort. A larger investment would include improving the team's practice facilities, and ending the demoralizing and time-wasting bus rides around the city. And the largest investment includes establishing stadium conditions that make Grey Cup games viable in Montreal.

(3) DIVEST - Find a new owner and cash out.

Given what we have all witnessed for the past 4 seasons on the field, can anyone explain how Option 1 (HOLD) yields the highest ROI for the Wetenhalls?



Forgive me, but this is not the NFL. How much money will an owner make with a CFL team?
At best the Wettenhals were coming away breaking even or slightly ahead when they were having playoff games at the Big O.


OK, let's go with that assumption - that this isn't the NFL, and that it's just "fun money" for the Wetenhalls.

How much fun are you having now, Mr. Wetenhall?
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Re: 2017 Discussion

by idealsheldon » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:32 am

The Als present issues do not stem from lack of monetary investment from the Wetenhalls. They were caused by poor decision making - Head Coach hires of Hawkins, Higgins, and Popp, and the inability to find a franchise QB post AC.

The one financial mark against them is the lack of a proper practice facility, the one they had adjacent to the Big O snatched away by the Impact. But what is forgotten is that they invested $6 million in the upgrades to Molson Stadium, where unlike the Tiger-Cats or Blue Bombers they cannot produce concerts to bring in additional revenue. Or like Ottawa have adjacent revenue producing real estate.

And because of the Big O roof situation they have not been able to host a Grey Cup since 2008.

I`m sure the Wetenhalls are well off, but as Tony said certainly not in the same league as NFL owners, nor even the Saputos or Molsons here in Montreal.
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