To rouge or not to rouge

Discussion of technique and strategy.

To rouge or not to rouge

by CatsFaninOttawa » Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:02 am

Near the end of this weekend's Argos-Ticats game, with just over four minutes left, Hamilton had to punt on third down from Toronto's 48 yard line. Bartel ended up kicking it out of bounds at the 4. At the time, Hamilton had a six point lead.

Was going for the coffin corner the right move here? Or would it have been better to go for the rouge to make it a seven point game, even though it would have given Toronto better field position?

I can definitely see the advantages of both options, and I'm still not sure which would have been better. Had Toronto scored on their drive following that punt - and they almost did - I'm sure there would have been a lot of discussion about this decision, especially on the Ticats forum. But just because everything turned out OK for the Ticats doesn't mean it was the right decision.

Opinions?
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Re: To rouge or not to rouge

by JerkFaceLoser » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:22 pm

The good part is that even if you mess up going for the option you want, you still get the other one (unless you shank it way short) so it's really a no-lose situation.

But I think by kicking for the point you're telling your defence "I don't have much faith in you stopping them". And last year (and at the start of this year) I may have agreed with that. But the way the Ticats defence is playing right now, you say "go stop them" and put them in the best position to do so.
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Re: To rouge or not to rouge

by Grover » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:29 pm

At the time of the punt there was over 4 min. remaining in the game,
That is an eternity in the CFL, even if they scored, the Cats would have got the ball back with over 1 min left.
IMHO, the coffin corner punt was the right call.
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Re: To rouge or not to rouge

by CatsFaninOttawa » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:40 pm

JerkFaceLoser wrote:The good part is that even if you mess up going for the option you want, you still get the other one (unless you shank it way short) so it's really a no-lose situation.

But I think by kicking for the point you're telling your defence "I don't have much faith in you stopping them". And last year (and at the start of this year) I may have agreed with that. But the way the Ticats defence is playing right now, you say "go stop them" and put them in the best position to do so.

Or would you be saying "I know our defence can stop them from anywhere, so field position isn't that important, but just in case they break one, let's make sure they don't take the lead"?
Grover wrote:At the time of the punt there was over 4 min. remaining in the game,
That is an eternity in the CFL, even if they scored, the Cats would have got the ball back with over 1 min left.
IMHO, the coffin corner punt was the right call.

Good point. The last three minutes, with stop time, always seems like half the fourth quarter. In fact, it's only one third of the quarter (28 plays before, 14 plays after). Lots of time to come back if they score the TD. But wouldn't it be better to have the come back to win, but if not, the game goes into overtime?
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Re: To rouge or not to rouge

by JerkFaceLoser » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:46 pm

CatsFaninOttawa wrote:
JerkFaceLoser wrote:The good part is that even if you mess up going for the option you want, you still get the other one (unless you shank it way short) so it's really a no-lose situation.

But I think by kicking for the point you're telling your defence "I don't have much faith in you stopping them". And last year (and at the start of this year) I may have agreed with that. But the way the Ticats defence is playing right now, you say "go stop them" and put them in the best position to do so.

Or would you be saying "I know our defence can stop them from anywhere, so field position isn't that important, but just in case they break one, let's make sure they don't take the lead"?


I think the defence feels more confident if the coach makes the aggressive decision. If "just in case" enters into the decision, that's not being aggressive.
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Re: To rouge or not to rouge

by depopulationINC » Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:19 pm

I was pondering the same thing. Personally, I would have went for the rouge in that situation. Had it not been a guy like Ray at helm, that might sway me. I could not argue either decision though.
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Re: To rouge or not to rouge

by CatsFaninOttawa » Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:58 pm

And as JFL mentioned, with either result being good, maybe it's just a matter of aiming for the corner, and letting fate choose . As long as it goes out of bounds, which in this case was the important goal - keeping it out of Owens's hands.
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Re: To rouge or not to rouge

by FenderGuy69 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:09 pm

If they kicked the rouge & Toronto scrimmages from the 30 with 4 minutes to go, down by 7 points ... their, Toronto's Win Probability equals 0.08.

If they pinned them deep ... down by 6, scrimmaging from their own 4 yard line ... Toronto's Win Probability equals 0.16.

So the decision should have been to kick the rouge ...

That is if my math is correct ... which is not always the case ... but I think it is this time ...
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Re: To rouge or not to rouge

by FenderGuy69 » Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:03 am

Now that I've watched the game again on PVR, I don't think Bartel would've been able to comfortably get the kick deep enough into the endzone. He let it go from his own 50. LOS was the Toronto 49. It was a 43 yard kick as it was. He would've had to really drive the ball, thus sacrificing hang time & coverage. If he doesn't get it out the side of the endzone, Owens would've brought it out. The key there was to limit Owens' return possibility. Which he did with the coffin corner.
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