CFL problems

Discussion of technique and strategy.

Re: CFL problems

by Jakob7 » Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:07 pm

ya it does make sense because thats the rule so you know in a 1 point game you play hard D, not prevent d, if you let the other team get that close to your endzone with little to no time left than you didnt do your job. and if you have been watching once the ball hits the ground its only a 5 yard no yards call. to say that the returner should be intelligent enough to catch it in the air is a ridiculous claim as there are way too many factors to take in account. if that was the case teams would punt ten yards and try and down it there for a first down. back to the first point...have you ever seen a game end this way? if so than what game, if not than maybe use actual evidence not hypothetical situations
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Re: CFL problems

by Paulback22 » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:41 am

Just because a rule is in the mighty CFL handbook doesn't make it immediately make sense. If you are comfortable with giving a point for a miss and the excitement of safeties then I just cannot argue with that kind of logic. It just doesn't make sense to me.
I have heard all kinds of arguments about the returner getting the option of returning or giving up the single as strategy but when the kick goes through the endzone that arguement goes out the window.

I also never said that there wasn't a 5yd rule on a bounce. I am saying that there shouldn't be as the returner should be positioned so that he is able to catch the ball in the air or the defense can run up and down it. If a team wants to punt ten yards and down it, go ahead......the ball still turns over to the other team as it wouldn't be a recovery(that onside or punter recovery rule would be null & void).

I have seen a game end that way..... by the way. My Lions did it and I just wanted to puke. I would rather not see it again.

Is everything the CFL does 100% okay with you? Isn't there anything that they change that you disagree with? 3 years ago were you happy with the punting out of bounds or was that something you would have changed? Do you prefer the way punting is regulated now instead? You must have been in conflict with the CFL in one case or the other.
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Re: CFL problems

by Jakob7 » Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:22 pm

the point you make about downing punts on the ground wont make the game any better or worse, its nearly the same rule, and therefore makes no sense to change. the crossover is the only thing i would take out of the game. other than that theres no reason to change any of the rules
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Re: CFL problems

by Paulback22 » Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:27 pm

The punting change would force the returner to catch the ball or follow the bouncing ball like everyone else. Also if a ball bounced back towards the coverage team there would be no "no yards" penalty.

What about this.....Is everything the CFL does 100% okay with you? Isn't there anything that they change that you disagree with? 3 years ago were you happy with the punting out of bounds or was that something you would have changed? Do you prefer the way punting is regulated now instead? You must have been in conflict with the CFL in one case or the other.

I wouldn't worry about the crossover because I would put all the teams into 1 division & lose the East vs West thing.
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Re: CFL problems

by Jakob7 » Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:08 pm

i have not seen the punt out of bounds rule affect a game ever so i dont care. but THANK GOD you have no impact on this league. no divisions? what is this beer league football? im tired of debating with someone who has no concept of competitive sports, you sir only give me a headache.
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Re: CFL problems

by Paulback22 » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:00 am

You manage to dodge questions everytime you are pinned into a corner. Your response to this......Is everything the CFL does 100% okay with you? Isn't there anything that they change that you disagree with? 3 years ago were you happy with the punting out of bounds or was that something you would have changed? Do you prefer the way punting is regulated now instead? You must have been in conflict with the CFL in one case or the other.

Someone put the same Post about stopping the East/West situation on one of the team sites already. I am not the only one who is thinking this over.

I don't think you are tired of debating this yet. You'll be back.
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Re: CFL problems

by Massdestruction » Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:51 pm

Just get rid of the nonintentional 5 yd penalty for no yards infractions, keep the 15 yd penalty when there is no attempt to avoid or allow the kick returner to catch the ball safely, its a common sence judgment cal the ref,s need to get real about!.
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Re: CFL problems

by Massdestruction » Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:55 pm

Once you get rid of the rouge for missed field goals when the ball is not returned out of the end zone, then you will start chipping away at the basic Canadian rules altogether, The rouge is awarded when the ball is not returned out of the end zone, because the kicking team placed a live ball over the goal line. its totally logical, where as a fair catch rule is not.
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Re: CFL problems

by rocketsfan05 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:42 pm

I know how to fix the point for missing a field goal.
If your kicker attempts to kick a field goal from long range(let's say for our sake 45 yards) if the kicker misses a field goal from 45 yards or more BUT it only misses because it hits one of the uprights, then you get a point.
If this doesn't work, abolish the rule
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Re: CFL problems

by Billy_Soup » Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:31 am

Actually rocketsfan, the only guaranteed way you don't get a rouge on a missed field goal (other then a short or blocked one) is to hit the goal posts. It is a dead ball. So I don't think I like your amendments. Leave it how it is. It's good.
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Re: CFL problems

by Massdestruction » Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:53 pm

Paulback22 wrote:Your argument contradicts itself and so why I see that you don't want to answer the scenario laid out before you.

There are some rules in the CFL that don't make sense and I believe that they should be changed to better the game. I cannot just follow blindly along and that is why I wrote a letter to the CFL long before posting on here.

Now I have to write a letter to the NHL and ask if they could start rewarding a penalty shot that misses the net with 1/3 of a point. Unless it hits the post then it will still get 0........lmao.

Just to educate you_---The rouge is awarded when the ball which crossed the GOAL line ,is not returned back across the GOAL line!
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Re: CFL problems

by Massdestruction » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:18 am

Canadian rouge similar to Aussie rules scoring. http://www.aussierulesuk.com/about/scoring
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Re: CFL problems

by Avro Arrow » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:48 pm

Paulback22:
I personally like the Rouge because the NFL touchback is boring as hell. It's actually an original rule in Football that the NFL moved away from, just like they moved away from having the goal posts on the goal line. I also think that the coffin corner punt is a boring play. Why do you think the NFL doesn't allow kickoffs to go out of bounds? Honestly, I don't know why they allow one and not the other. I do like the idea of the kickoff after a successful field goal though.

Massdestruction:
You want to give CFL referees the power to make a common-sense call when they have no common sense? Bad idea to say the least! LOL
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Re: CFL problems

by Paolo X » Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:19 pm

I also think that the coffin corner punt is a boring play. Why do you think the NFL doesn't allow kickoffs to go out of bounds? Honestly, I don't know why they allow one and not the other.


These rules in American football, for kickoffs and for punts respectively including the continued use of the fair catch, are derived largely from the old rules of rugby (union).

Kickoffs In American Football And Rugby (Union)
The ball must go 10 yards (metres now in rugby, originally yards) AND touch the ground before recovery as well by the kicking team on any kickoff. Even most fans of American football I find do not know the second requirement of that rule.

In rugby just as in all gridiron football, options in advantage of the defence remain in place in the rules if the kickoff goes out of bounds without being touched or if the kicking team makes contact with the ball before 10 metres.

However, a drop kick is required in rugby on all kickoffs and never used anymore in gridiron football though remains well within the rules.

The current rules of American football for kickoffs resemble more those of old rugby rules than do the current rules of Canadian football.

Punts Out Of Bounds
Rugby itself had changed its rules for penalties for sake of some punts out of bounds long since and they resemble closely those of present Canadian football.

Fair Catch
Rugby also changed its rules regarding the fair catch on any kick but a kickoff, or as called in rugby a "mark," as well, with current NFL rules in place just like the old rugby rules (and old football rules before the FA for "soccer" too) for all punts and kicks for which the ball has not yet touched the ground including those taken with the use of a tee.
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Re: CFL problems

by CatsFaninOttawa » Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:29 pm

Paulback22 wrote:The CFL has the potential to be a great league but they are run by dinosaurs. The following problems need to be cleared up...
1) The referees are horrible--calls are; missed, inconsistent from game to game and it seems that most times it hurts them just to think. I want the job to be in charge and evaluate refs. I don't know if I can drink as much as the guy that does it now but I'll try.

While I always feel my team gets too many penalties, and the other team gets too few, when I try to be objective about it, watching plays in slo-mo, I have found that the refs miss a lot fewer calls than I used to think. That being said, I think that the refs should be paid enough by the league to be allowed to work at it full-time. Currently, refs all have day jobs to pay the bills, and are into reffing mostly because they love the game. Not sure how you practice being a referee, but watching game films, reviewing all the games as a group, and looking for things done well and areas for improvement would be a good start.

Paulback22 wrote: 2) I do not see the problem with punting out of bounds to play field position--it's called strategy. The CFL says it wants exciting return but then they let a team start at their 35 after a field goal. Why not let them start at their 20 or 25 if they are too lazy for an "exciting" return.

Totally agree. Most of the time a punt goes out of bounds is because the punter shanked it. Punters always try to kick it away from the return man, and kicking it out of bounds is one of the better ways. They give up yards with the angle, so it's their choice. And maybe dropping that penalty would reverse the trend of conceding a safety when deep in your own end.

Paulback22 wrote: 3) A point for a missed field goal. If I have to explain how rewarding failure seems idiotic......

I disagree on this one, as others on this thread have already. Sure it's quirky. Sure it seems to reward "failure". But I still like it. It's an emotional thing, I guess. I could maybe argue the merits of why it should stay, but I'm not sure I could even convince myself. :)

Paulback22 wrote: 4) No yards penalty. If the ball is caught in the air 15 yds but after bouncing around 5yds. Really if your punt returner cannot catch then lets let the defense down it and get on with the game as this isn't recess and these aren't 5 yr olds.

That's a wide field for the punt returner to cover, so there will be times he'll have to let it drop, especially on a line-drive punt. I remember growing up, teams used to put two guys back there, but they all went to a single punt returner years ago. They probably found that one guy could cover most of the field, and almost always get to the ball at least on the first hop.

I absolutely hate the fair catch rule in the NFL. And I love the onside punt rule in the CFL, even the quick kick, although I haven't seen either in years. I thought Hamilton would have tried the onside punt last year with Prechae Rodriguez's leaping ability and Nick Setta's hangtime. (Don't get any ideas, Saskatchewan!) Occasionally you do see a punter sprint downfield to recover a short punt or a bounce back, and I would hate to lose that buy introducing a "grounding" rule.

Paulback22 wrote: The CFL governing board is useless and should be replaced as they continue to screw things up.
WHEW!!!! I feel better.

My $0.02

More possible rule changes? Allowing designated quarterbacks to play at other positions, even allowing two on the field at once? Not sure why there's rule preventing a designated QB from playing on the defence. Shouldn't it be up to the team if they are willing to risk an injury? Maybe that's the reason behind this rule, to prevent deliberate shots at the QB when playing another position. Not sure if any team would ever take advantage of it, but you never know. Wildcat plays? Option plays?
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