ABC sued for Fake News

Re: ABC sued for Fake News

by OttSens » Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:08 am

beaglehound wrote:OttSens writes: " agree to an extent, but I think you and some of the others on here overstate it greatly. I don't watch CNN (I rarely watch TV outside of sports and instead my primary news source is the CBC website although I also like to read The Economist online), so I can't comment on them specifically, but I challenge you to point out examples of them tainting information with their own slant. What media source do you primarily use? Because I would also challenge you to seek out examples of that media source tainting information with their (which may also be your) biases.

Also, it is ridiculous to compare those pieces of trash at the grocery store to established news organizations. I find it highly unlikely that a significant percent of the population takes them seriously. Before you can compare CNN to them CNN will have to publish a story about Trump impregnating Michelle Obama"


Challenge? Challenge? Tone it down OttSens. We are having a discussion- I hope.

"I don't watch CNN so I can't comment on them specifically, but I challenge you to point out examples of them tainting information with their own slant."

Oh my gosh. Go to YouTube and you can see for yourself hundreds if not thousands of examples. And you don't have to dig for them. See the way CNN covered the 2016 U.S. election campaign. You will not see impartiality . You will see bias at its worst.

"Also, it is ridiculous to compare those pieces of trash at the grocery store to established news organizations. I find it highly unlikely that a significant percent of the population takes them seriously."

You did not get my point. My point is that they there are numerous stories that carry some truth:
- In 2006, the Enquirer was the first newspaper to reveal that O. J. Simpson had written a book, If I Did It. The story was immediately denied by Simpson's lawyer, but was confirmed by release of the book one month later
- In 2001, the Enquirer uncovered that the Rev. Jesse Jackson had an illegitimate child.
- The Enquirer additionally scooped other media outlets during the O. J. Simpson murder trial: when a distinctive footprint from a Bruno Magli shoe was found at the crime scene, Simpson vehemently denied owning such a shoe. The Enquirer, however, published two photos showing Simpson wearing Bruno Magli shoes.

However, there is a lot of Yellow Journalism in the tabloid and it is the yellow journalism that I am seeing more and more of in so called "established" news organizations.

"I find it highly unlikely that a significant percent of the population takes them seriously."

Is $50+ million annually in revenue serious enough for you?

"Before you can compare CNN to them CNN will have to publish a story about Trump impregnating Michelle Obama"

I don't know about that. Have you heard something you are not telling us?



Point 1: I don't mean to come across aggressively at all. Perhaps "challenge wasn't the best choice of verb, but it gets across my intent that all of us should strive to do that in order to get the most out of the media

Point 2: Please post a Youtube video and point out the biases in there. If you are making claims about bias you have to prove them.

Point 3: The original post said "See the trash that is in there. That is what the establishment media has become" Now you are saying your point is that they sometimes report stories with some truth? My only point was that it was unfair to compare CNN to them.

Point 4: It is pretty depressing they make that much money. However I still think that pales in comparison to what the big TV networks make.

Point 5: I was making a joke about what those tabloid headlines are like.
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Re: ABC sued for Fake News

by beaglehound » Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:25 pm

You appear to be a reasonable person who is not trying to be confrontational in this thread OttSens so I will respond to point two. I have "proven" my point about bias when I said,

"See the way CNN covered the 2016 U.S. election campaign. You will not see impartiality . You will see bias at its worst."

I am not going to provide individual links on youtube supporting my claim about CNN being biased and very anti-trump. I say this not because there aren't any links but because there are so many to choose from. Watch several of them and you will either come to the same conclusion I came to about bias or you won't. It would be like me telling someone that the American Politics CFL forum posters are terribly biased against Trump and you asking me to cite you specific posts. Why when you can look them up and see for yourself.

More importantly what I will not do is get into a debate with you by posting a particular link where I believe the anchors are being terribly biased against Trump and then argue with you if in your opinion they are not. We would accomplish nothing and all I would be doing would be trying to persuade you what is already obvious about CNN's editorializing.

To settle this go to several links that involved Kayleigh McEnany, an exceptionally bright and talented contributor on CNN who many times had to go up against 3, 4 and 5 Trump adversaries all at one time and set them straight. She often did a masterful job putting them in their place. The bias was often blatant because CNN did this on a nightly basis throughout the election campaign. The pattern of biases was obvious. If you are asking for one or two links I'm not going to provide them for you for the reasons I've already given. You will need to do what I did if you are as interested as I was.

Re: point 3...

I am saying that CNN often embellishes, exaggerates and has now been caught faking news. I do not think I said CNN does not report news that has some truth in it although they have recently fired 3 of their employees for "trumping" up fake news.
Pun intended by the way. :wink:

If I am not being clear or something has been lost in translation I will say again that in my opinion CNN has become a yellow journalist media outlet because of the way it embellishes, exaggerates and attempts to sensationalize stories involving Trump. It is more interested in its ratings than in legitimate trustworthy reporting. Thus the reason for the comparison with the likes of rags like the NE.

I followed CNN very closely throughout the 2016 US campaign and it was all too clear how one sided [favoring Clinton] the network was. It turned my stomach. Not because I was in support of one candidate over another but because of the kinds of guests they would have on the show and what the moderators would do and how the moderators would try to direct the conversation and attempt the influence the viewing audience.

I might as well have been watching the The View or The Talk.
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Re: ABC sued for Fake News

by OttSens » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:09 pm

beaglehound wrote:You appear to be a reasonable person who is not trying to be confrontational in this thread OttSens so I will respond to point two. I have "proven" my point about bias when I said,

"See the way CNN covered the 2016 U.S. election campaign. You will not see impartiality . You will see bias at its worst."

I am not going to provide individual links on youtube supporting my claim about CNN being biased and very anti-trump. I say this not because there aren't any links but because there are so many to choose from. Watch several of them and you will either come to the same conclusion I came to about bias or you won't. It would be like me telling someone that the American Politics CFL forum posters are terribly biased against Trump and you asking me to cite you specific posts. Why when you can look them up and see for yourself.

More importantly what I will not do is get into a debate with you by posting a particular link where I believe the anchors are being terribly biased against Trump and then argue with you if in your opinion they are not. We would accomplish nothing and all I would be doing would be trying to persuade you what is already obvious about CNN's editorializing.

To settle this go to several links that involved Kayleigh McEnany, an exceptionally bright and talented contributor on CNN who many times had to go up against 3, 4 and 5 Trump adversaries all at one time and set them straight. She often did a masterful job putting them in their place. The bias was often blatant because CNN did this on a nightly basis throughout the election campaign. The pattern of biases was obvious. If you are asking for one or two links I'm not going to provide them for you for the reasons I've already given. You will need to do what I did if you are as interested as I was.

Re: point 3...

I am saying that CNN often embellishes, exaggerates and has now been caught faking news. I do not think I said CNN does not report news that has some truth in it although they have recently fired 3 of their employees for "trumping" up fake news.
Pun intended by the way. :wink:

If I am not being clear or something has been lost in translation I will say again that in my opinion CNN has become a yellow journalist media outlet because of the way it embellishes, exaggerates and attempts to sensationalize stories involving Trump. It is more interested in its ratings than in legitimate trustworthy reporting. Thus the reason for the comparison with the likes of rags like the NE.

I followed CNN very closely throughout the 2016 US campaign and it was all too clear how one sided [favoring Clinton] the network was. It turned my stomach. Not because I was in support of one candidate over another but because of the kinds of guests they would have on the show and what the moderators would do and how the moderators would try to direct the conversation and attempt the influence the viewing audience.

I might as well have been watching the The View or The Talk.


For what it is worth I do think that CNN has a left bias (but I also think that among mainstream media Fox is more biased, and that many of the major media sources that aren't quite in the mainstream are much much more bias in whatever direction they slant). What I didn't like seeing was the constant posting of threads for every mainstream media error. Of course they make errors, it happens all the time. That doesn't necessarily mean a source is unreliable, you just hope that they do rectify their mistake (and it isn't uncommon to see an article online say it had a correction made to it after an earlier posting).


What I do find very unnerving is public officials recurring condemnation the media. Journalists play an integral role in society, and part of their job is to be critical of the government. The media needs to question the government, investigate government claims, and report government (mis)actions, because the average Joe does not have the time or resources to properly do that. When the government says that the media lies and is "fake news" it erodes trust in the institutions that inform us, and by extension hold the government accountable for wrong doings.


Today there are two countries that come to mind when I think of government censorship. They are Turkey and Russia. Yes, others like China do it too, but Turkey and Russia's crack down is more recent. In those countries journalists which criticize the government, or write stories that highlight issues with the government get thrown in jail or worse. Now Trump is nowhere near that level, but even the open hostilities with the media is not only very unusual in the west, but also in my opinion very scary.





Now on another note regarding this:

"I am not going to provide individual links on youtube supporting my claim about CNN being biased and very anti-trump. I say this not because there aren't any links but because there are so many to choose from. Watch several of them and you will either come to the same conclusion I came to about bias or you won't. It would be like me telling someone that the American Politics CFL forum posters are terribly biased against Trump and you asking me to cite you specific posts. Why when you can look them up and see for yourself. "


I am not going to look it up mainly because that is not really what I care about in this thread. And hell, I almost never watch TV, and didn't even have one or live on the continent during the campaign so many in this thread would know much more about CNN than me. But in response to the bolded, the person who is making a claim is the person who should be able to support that claim with sources. Now I don't expect sources for every point everyone makes on these boards (and hell I would be a hypocrite if I did), but if you are asked to prove your point you should be able to. Saying "look it up yourself" makes it look like that you don't know what you are talking about or can't prove or can't support your claim.
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Re: ABC sued for Fake News

by beaglehound » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:35 pm

OttSens writes: "But in response to the bolded, the person who is making a claim is the person who should be able to support that claim with sources. Saying "look it up yourself" makes it look like that you don't know what you are talking about or can't prove or can't support your claim."

Come on OttSens. You know I am not saying look it up yourself in the way you imply. I did support the claim with sources. Many many sources. All of which are on Youtube. Take your pick. I even pointed you in the right direction by telling you to see segments involving Kayleigh McEnany. I suggested you go to Youtube where you will find many CNN segments of the 2016 U.S. campaign a few mouse clicks away. You are asking for sources backing up my evidence. I gave them to you. If the Youtube CNN segments are valid why do you need me to pin point specific segments? I don't understand your point.
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Re: ABC sued for Fake News

by OttSens » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:40 pm

beaglehound wrote:OttSens writes: "But in response to the bolded, the person who is making a claim is the person who should be able to support that claim with sources"

Come on OttSens. I did support the claim with sources. I suggested you go to Youtube where you will find many CNN segments of the 2016 U.S. campaign a few mouse clicks away. You are asking for sources backing up my evidence. I gave them to you. If the Youtube CNN segments are valid why do you need me to pin point specific segments? I don't understand your point.



Saying "go look it up" doesn't count as citation. You need to provide a specific source, and rationalize why that source supports your claim. This is for any argument by anyone.


Now I personally don't really care about it for this specific argument, because I don't disagree that CNN has a left lean. But if someone can't provide any evidence for their claims than there is no reason to believe those claims are accurate.
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Re: ABC sued for Fake News

by beaglehound » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:50 pm

OttSens writes: "Saying "go look it up" doesn't count as citation."

Agreed. But directing your attention to numerous CNN segments of the 2016 U.S. campaign on Youtube involving Kayleigh McEnany is.
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Re: ABC sued for Fake News

by OttSens » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:04 pm

beaglehound wrote:OttSens writes: "Saying "go look it up" doesn't count as citation."

Agreed. But directing your attention to numerous CNN segments of the 2016 U.S. campaign on Youtube involving Kayleigh McEnany is.


The thing is that isn't enough. Firstly, you have to provide a specific clip. Then you have to point to specific things said in the video (or edited out, facts missed etc) and explain why that supports your position. To craft a strong argument you have to back it up.
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