Poll : Would You Work? If So, How Much?

If You Had a Guarenteed Income, that covered ALL your NEEDS, how much would you work?

1) NONE - I prefer a simple life and don`t need extras.
3
33%
2) 10 Hours A Week - a little spending money.
1
11%
3) 20 Hours A Week - just enough for a few of the finer things.
2
22%
4) 40 Hours A Week - I love my job and would keep working!
2
22%
5) More Than 40 Hours - Work keeps you alive. Give me the $$$$!!!
1
11%
 
Total votes : 9

Re: Poll : Would You Work? If So, How Much?

by oo DAWG oo » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:47 pm

Grammar? I'm sitting at work on a friggen cell phone i could care less about grammar...

A payout from the government to its people as a means of income IS WELFARE.

So ya guaranteed income for EVERYONE is welfare and if poverty was NOT A PROBLEM then they wouldn't need to even consider that now would they?

As for the meaningless i could care less where the USA comes on their lists ....that is people specific some people like the mountains some like the beaches some like it whete its hot some don't some people like to learn and earn their way through life ..others want handouts ...
Theres places I dislike deeply here in tne USA California and Seattle are 2
Wouldnt live there for anything.
Theres places in Canada i feel the same about its all a personal thing on "greatest places"
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Re: Poll : Would You Work? If So, How Much?

by oo DAWG oo » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:49 pm

Do i need to go back and fix the typos or can you just figure them out
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Re: Poll : Would You Work? If So, How Much?

by ryan3434 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:55 pm

KevinRiley2 wrote:
oo DAWG oo wrote:Ahhh those lists are meaningless...

And you never said "best place to live"

You implied they had no crime or poverty...and your wrong on both points

No, I never implied that at all...

* Ryan said violence and poverty come from socialism.
* I said the U.S. has more poverty and violence than most, and it's one of the least socialistic countries on earth. Then I gave examples of high quality places to live that are consider left leaning.
* Then you said everyone is on welfare - YOU'RE wrong on that point and YOUR grammar was incorrect as well (see above).
* I said those places are considered better places to live than the good old Right Wing U.S.A., as a counter point.
* Now you say the lists are meaningless, but it seems those lists are only meaningless when they say the U.S. isn't # 1 - which they always do, usually listing the U.S. around 10th.

Would you like me to point out which parts of the country in the US are the most poor and violent and you make a list of areas that are the most socialistic too.. Bet we have the same areas on our lists.
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Re: Poll : Would You Work? If So, How Much?

by KevinRiley2 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:58 pm

oo DAWG oo wrote:A payout from the government to its people as a means of income IS WELFARE.

So ya guaranteed income for EVERYONE is welfare and if poverty was NOT A PROBLEM then they wouldn't need to even consider that now would they?"


No... Welfare is, by definition, "financial support given to people in need".

Guaranteed Income is given to everyone, no matter their need.

Guaranteed Income is being tried in Finland and Ontario because those governments fear a future where A.I. and robotics destroy a large percentage of jobs. They are being proactive and trying something new. I applaud them for it.
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Re: Poll : Would You Work? If So, How Much?

by KevinRiley2 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:00 pm

oo DAWG oo wrote:Do i need to go back and fix the typos or can you just figure them out

Don't get defensive. You said I implied something I didn't and then said I was wrong. How can I be wrong when I didn't imply that? Now you're upset because I corrected your grammar? If you can't take being corrected, don't say I implied something I didn't, or tell me I was wrong when I wasn't.

P.S. You should just say, "You know, Kevin, you're right. You didn't imply that and I was wrong - and it led to argument. My bad". That is what I would do. Call it taking the Kevin High Road. ;)
Last edited by KevinRiley2 on Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Poll : Would You Work? If So, How Much?

by KevinRiley2 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:05 pm

ryan3434 wrote:
KevinRiley2 wrote:
oo DAWG oo wrote:Ahhh those lists are meaningless...

And you never said "best place to live"

You implied they had no crime or poverty...and your wrong on both points

No, I never implied that at all...

* Ryan said violence and poverty come from socialism.
* I said the U.S. has more poverty and violence than most, and it's one of the least socialistic countries on earth. Then I gave examples of high quality places to live that are consider left leaning.
* Then you said everyone is on welfare - YOU'RE wrong on that point and YOUR grammar was incorrect as well (see above).
* I said those places are considered better places to live than the good old Right Wing U.S.A., as a counter point.
* Now you say the lists are meaningless, but it seems those lists are only meaningless when they say the U.S. isn't # 1 - which they always do, usually listing the U.S. around 10th.

Would you like me to point out which parts of the country in the US are the most poor and violent and you make a list of areas that are the most socialistic too.. Bet we have the same areas on our lists.

That's silly. Now you're saying parts of the U.S. are socialistic? You are splitting hairs to make an argument.

Simply put...

1) The U.S. is one of the most right wing countries on earth. It is also one of the most violent - not including war zones.
2) You said socialism leads to violence and poverty. I provided a list that proves you are wrong.
Last edited by KevinRiley2 on Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Poll : Would You Work? If So, How Much?

by KevinRiley2 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:12 pm

Socialism is coming, like it or not. It will happen when AI and robotics make us all obsolete. As I have said before, I choose to embrace it.

****

Jays are winning :thdn: so I'm off to watch Dateline. Fight among yourselves, boys. :)
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Re: Poll : Would You Work? If So, How Much?

by ryan3434 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:41 pm

Of course i was originally refering to when socialism sucks the money dry like Susan the 5 dollar hooker with a meth addiction that works the corner of Ottawa and Cannon around 11pm on saturdays.....
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Re: Poll : Would You Work? If So, How Much?

by KevinRiley2 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:43 pm

ryan3434 wrote:Of course i was originally refering to when socialism sucks the money dry like Susan the 5 dollar hooker with a meth addiction that works the corner of Ottawa and Cannon around 11pm on saturdays.....

You're so bad... :)
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Re: Poll : Would You Work? If So, How Much?

by West » Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:01 am

KevinRiley2 wrote:
West wrote:
ryan3434 wrote:Thats why i put a link to Venezuala..When the money runs out Kevy.... The violence in US or Mexico isnt because they are starving and it certainly isnt the government starting the violence


I just had a dinner the other night with a couple who lived through the communist regime in East Germany the other night. They said the government would plant spies in every facet of life to collect information and report back to them. You didn't know whether it was a co-worker, a family member, your neighbour, or otherwise. Not to mention no choice in religion, education, and so forth. You were simply property of the state.

Doesn't sound very fun to me. Though it sounds like this is what some want.

Don't want communism. Just socialism. It doesn't have to be taken to extreme.

The 10 most socialistic countries (not including those that are communist - altho I thought China was communist) :

China
Denmark
Finland
Netherlands
Canada
Sweden
Norway
Ireland
New Zealand
Belgium

All of them are doing just fine. Some have a higher standard of living, a longer life span, and less National Debt (per capita) than the mighty US of A.

I just want a system where everyone has a good life and no one falls thru the cracks. Maybe it's not possible but...


I think it's overly simplistic to point to these countries and say "hey look government control is what we want" while all the while ignoring countries like Greece and Venezuala which are a **** show.

Not to mention most of these countries have been swinging right in recent years. Or if you study some of the Scandinavian countries most of their wealth was generated with center right policy.
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Re: Poll : Would You Work? If So, How Much?

by ryan3434 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:07 am

https://www.google.ca/amp/globalriskins ... -debt/amp/

Since we like to point to Finland but there is almost a story out there over out of control debt for all those countries Kevy posted.

Imagine how fast ,with our debt, basic income would sink us
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Re: Poll : Would You Work? If So, How Much?

by KevinRiley2 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:56 am

ryan3434 wrote:https://www.google.ca/amp/globalriskinsights.com/2013/11/can-finland-control-its-national-debt/amp/

Since we like to point to Finland but there is almost a story out there over out of control debt for all those countries Kevy posted.

Imagine how fast ,with our debt, basic income would sink us

:lol:

I love you, Ryan, but have you looked at the Debt to GDP ratio of the U.S. or Japan? The U.S., the bastion of free enterprise, has a GDP ratio of (at least) TWICE that of Scandinavian countries. Japan is TWICE that of the U.S. :o

Socialism, if done right, works.
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Re: Poll : Would You Work? If So, How Much?

by KevinRiley2 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:58 am

West wrote:I think it's overly simplistic to point to these countries and say "hey look government control is what we want" while all the while ignoring countries like Greece and Venezuala which are a **** show.

Not to mention most of these countries have been swinging right in recent years. Or if you study some of the Scandinavian countries most of their wealth was generated with center right policy.

Aye West,

We have to give credit where credit is due. These Scandinavian countries are very left leaning and thriving - life expectancy, happiness, etc. As I said above, if done right, Socialism can work.

As I have also said, with AI and robotics, Socialism is also inevitable so we better find the right mix. That's why I'm glad Finland and Ontario have these pilot projects.
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Re: Poll : Would You Work? If So, How Much?

by West » Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:32 pm

In the 1970s and 1980s the Nordics were indeed tax-and-spend countries. Sweden’s public spending reached 67% of GDP in 1993. Astrid Lindgren, the inventor of Pippi Longstocking, was forced to pay more than 100% of her income in taxes. But tax-and-spend did not work: Sweden fell from being the fourth-richest country in the world in 1970 to the 14th in 1993.

Since then the Nordics have changed course—mainly to the right. Government’s share of GDP in Sweden, which has dropped by around 18 percentage points, is lower than France’s and could soon be lower than Britain’s. Taxes have been cut: the corporate rate is 22%, far lower than America’s. The Nordics have focused on balancing the books. While Mr Obama and Congress dither over entitlement reform, Sweden has reformed its pension system (see Free exchange). Its budget deficit is 0.3% of GDP; America’s is 7%.


Denmark and Norway allow private firms to run public hospitals. Sweden has a universal system of school vouchers, with private for-profit schools competing with public schools. Denmark also has vouchers—but ones that you can top up. When it comes to choice, Milton Friedman would be more at home in Stockholm than in Washington, DC.


Imagine implementing some of this in the US or Canada. Any time we talk about semi private health care or school choice the unions and the left loses their minds.

Any time we talk tax cuts for business the left goes looney tunes.

http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/2 ... supermodel
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Re: Poll : Would You Work? If So, How Much?

by KevinRiley2 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:05 pm

West wrote:
In the 1970s and 1980s the Nordics were indeed tax-and-spend countries. Sweden’s public spending reached 67% of GDP in 1993. Astrid Lindgren, the inventor of Pippi Longstocking, was forced to pay more than 100% of her income in taxes. But tax-and-spend did not work: Sweden fell from being the fourth-richest country in the world in 1970 to the 14th in 1993.

Since then the Nordics have changed course—mainly to the right. Government’s share of GDP in Sweden, which has dropped by around 18 percentage points, is lower than France’s and could soon be lower than Britain’s. Taxes have been cut: the corporate rate is 22%, far lower than America’s. The Nordics have focused on balancing the books. While Mr Obama and Congress dither over entitlement reform, Sweden has reformed its pension system (see Free exchange). Its budget deficit is 0.3% of GDP; America’s is 7%.


Denmark and Norway allow private firms to run public hospitals. Sweden has a universal system of school vouchers, with private for-profit schools competing with public schools. Denmark also has vouchers—but ones that you can top up. When it comes to choice, Milton Friedman would be more at home in Stockholm than in Washington, DC.


Imagine implementing some of this in the US or Canada. Any time we talk about semi private health care or school choice the unions and the left loses their minds.

Any time we talk tax cuts for business the left goes looney tunes.

http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/2 ... supermodel

But that's right of where they were - past tense. They are still left of most countries in this world - and definitely left of the U.S. Again, they are proof that the system can work. They just need the right balance.

From the same article...

This may sound like enhanced Thatcherism, but the Nordics also offer something for the progressive left by proving that it is possible to combine competitive capitalism with a large state: they employ 30% of their workforce in the public sector, compared with an OECD average of 15%.

and

The main lesson to learn from the Nordics is not ideological but practical. The state is popular not because it is big but because it works. A Swede pays tax more willingly than a Californian because he gets decent schools and free health care. The Nordics have pushed far-reaching reforms past unions and business lobbies. The proof is there. You can inject market mechanisms into the welfare state to sharpen its performance. You can put entitlement programmes on sound foundations to avoid beggaring future generations. But you need to be willing to root out corruption and vested interests. And you must be ready to abandon tired orthodoxies of the left and right and forage for good ideas across the political spectrum. The world will be studying the Nordic model for years to come.

If and when they implement a Guaranteed Income, the economic model will have to be changed. My guess, you will see enormous deflationary pressure and countries will be printing money. Then each country will negotiate with companies to supply goods and services.
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