United Airlines overbooked debacle

United Airlines overbooked debacle

by beaglehound » Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:42 pm

If you haven't seen the United Airlines article on the news yet watch the following Jimmy Kimmel clip and he gives a good summary of what happened on a recent scheduled United Airlines flight where United Airlines claims to have been overbooked and asked for 4 "volunteers" to disembark. No one volunteered, I guess because the incentive wasn't enough so United took things to the next level by saying that 4 people would be randomly selected. One guy refused and everything hit the fan from then on.

http://www.ksat.com/news/internet-react ... with-memes

The parody at that end of the clip is hilarious. If you want to see some funny memes, go to boredpanda.com
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Re: United Airlines overbooked debacle

by oo DAWG oo » Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:28 pm

At some point you think the guy would just get up and walk out..

What I really want to know is how far did they actually drag him? Just out the plane door or all they way out to the gate entrance...

One thing is for sure all our professional protesters down here are using that as a training video..
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Re: United Airlines overbooked debacle

by ro1313 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:30 pm

oo DAWG oo wrote:What I really want to know is how far did they actually drag him? Just out the plane door or all they way out to the gate entrance...



I would say just out the plane door because I saw another video where he ran back onto the plane

IMO When they tell you to get off the plane, you get off the plane
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Re: United Airlines overbooked debacle

by beaglehound » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:24 pm

oo DAWG oo wrote:At some point you think the guy would just get up and walk out..

What I really want to know is how far did they actually drag him? Just out the plane door or all they way out to the gate entrance...


No idea how far they dragged him but other reports say the guy was "allowed" back into the cabin. When you see a clip of the same guy back in the cabin you could see part of his butt crack. The guy appeared disoriented and was mumbling, " I have to get home, I have to get home.".

This incident was so unnecessary and handled so poorly. Shame on United Airlines. They really do need to train their staff better.
When a flight is over-booked, which airlines routinely do, they will offer "incentives" to get passengers to "voluntarily" give up their seat. In this case they were asking 4 passengers to de-plane. If the incentive is good enough the volunteers will step forward and catch another flight.

In this case United could not get 4 volunteers. No one was interested in taking the $800 give up your seat deal. Some reports say it was $1000. Who knows.

Regardless, this fiasco took place for two reasons:

1. United was being cheap. Instead of upping the anti until they got some interest they elected to randomly select 4 people who would no longer have a choice. The selection was by computer apparently.

2. The extraction team were not trained properly. Did anyone at a training session that deals with uncooperative customers ask, " Okay, what happens if we have to choose passengers to de-plane and one of them refuses? Should we call head office? Up the anti and offer 1st class to the person's destination plus hotel accommodation? Do we taser the passenger? Shoot the person? Tranquilize the person? What?

Personally, I think the guy who dragged the passenger off the plane has been watching the TV series "Cops" too much.

Bottom line? Everyone has their price. United just wasn't willing to up the dollar value incentive and now they're paying a much bigger price.

Rumour has it that this flight was actually not "over-booked". The airline was just wanting to make room for 4 stand-by employees. That in itself is a travesty if it is true.

While this situation was very poorly handled I think the Asian doctor escalated the situation and needs to take some responsibility. He was basically saying, " Why should I get off? Ask someone else to get off." He did this even though 3 of of the other passengers complied when they were randomly selected. I think the Asian guy was resisting on principle more than need. I think if United hit the sweet spot and offered him enough of an incentive he would have been off in an heart beat or there would have been other takers.

Regardless, United had better re-evaluate its policies when it comes to bumping paying passengers. When do United employees take priority over paying customers? That is exactly what happened here.
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Re: United Airlines overbooked debacle

by KevinRiley2 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:02 pm

Good/Really funny stuff...

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radi ... s-ad-video

Looks good on United.
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Re: United Airlines overbooked debacle

by Aerial » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:12 am

When I saw this I almost couldn't believe it. Talk about a training video in how not to be excellent in customer service.
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Re: United Airlines overbooked debacle

by bobo82 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:46 am

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Re: United Airlines overbooked debacle

by oo DAWG oo » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:23 am

If you follow all the news reports on this you'll find that "witness accounts" mean absolutely NOTHING ....
Everyday there is a news witness account that contradicts the one from another witness. One says he agreed and was getting ready to leave then changed his mind another said they just showed up and told him to leave...then others said he was rude and putting up a fight and then others said no he wasnt..

This stuff happens ALL THE TIME planes get cancelled, delayed, people get bumped around it happens. They would have accomodated him and got him home they would have lost a customer seeing as it sucks if it happens to you.

But the video isn't shocking or surprising they had 2 uniformed people I did not see if it was TSA or the Police but if either of them come and tell you to leave the plane your going out in one of 2 ways he could have walked out but he chose option number 2 ....
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Re: United Airlines overbooked debacle

by BigJoeM » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:31 am

Yes people get bumped but they are actually not sitting on the plane in a seat they paid for in advance .
Last edited by BigJoeM on Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: United Airlines overbooked debacle

by ro1313 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:44 am

BigJoeM wrote:Yes people get bumped but they are actually not sitting on the plane in a seat they paid for in advance .



yes but when you buy that ticket you agree that the airline has the right to bump you without notice....or something along those lines
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Re: United Airlines overbooked debacle

by beaglehound » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:52 am

BigJoeM wrote:Yes people get bumped but they are actually not sitting on the plane in a seat they paid for in advance .


True. It still comes down to United handling this so very poorly. I have read that there is a ceiling on how much an airline is willing to offer to have you give up your seat. I was not aware that if they have no takers they can arbitrarily "order" individuals off. Bottom line? Apparently, it doesn't matter if they are already seated.

There are so many ways United could have handled this to avoid things escalating but because of terrible staff training things were allowed to escalate.

Regardless of whether these passengers were seated or still at the gate I find it terribly offensive that any passenger should have to give up a seat and get bumped especially for airline employees. The only exception would be an emergency situation and I don't think those are common nor do I think most passengers would put up a stink if they believed the reason was legitimate.
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Re: United Airlines overbooked debacle

by beaglehound » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:59 am

ro1313 wrote:
BigJoeM wrote:Yes people get bumped but they are actually not sitting on the plane in a seat they paid for in advance .


yes but when you buy that ticket you agree that the airline has the right to bump you without notice....or something along those lines


It's time for these airlines to do a re-think about how they carry on business.

Let us say you have booked a cruise from Vancouver to Hawaii. Being compensated with a flight voucher by the airline for your inconvenience is fine but its my understanding that when taking a cruise, if you're not on the ship when it leaves port you are on your own and have to make arrangements to get aboard at the next port of call. Does the airline pay for that? That would mean paying your way by air to Hawaii not to mention that you've missed half of the cruise.

Here's another example:

Let's say you want to fly to a Super Bowl game. You have booked your room at $200 a night and you paid $800 for a pair of Super Bowl tickets. You end up missing the game. Does the airline pick up the tab?
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Re: United Airlines overbooked debacle

by BigJoeM » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:43 am

ro1313 wrote:
BigJoeM wrote:Yes people get bumped but they are actually not sitting on the plane in a seat they paid for in advance .



yes but when you buy that ticket you agree that the airline has the right to bump you without notice....or something along those lines



Yes but that allows for you to be bumped before sitting you don't give them carte blanche removal for a frivolous reasons as the one's given by United . If all passengers disembarked yes but because of a lottery for there workers to have their seat this does not over ride consumer protection in the travel industry . There is an expectancy by the airline to travel by the passenger . A civil contract no matter if your on a train , bus or airline . You cannot use physical force for civil matters that do not harm to the public or property . He was dragged out which shows me the police were not there to arrest other than to keep the peace . No grounds for removal whether fight safety or trespassing .
This was an active discriminatory practice with the sole beneficiary being the airline and they need to have their butts kicked civilly ; what if he was with a small child or did have to perform a life threatening operation . This was a stupid act of embarrassing violence on a passive resistant consumer they solicited to fly with them .

If they were smart they would have had all passengers disembark then only allow the passengers they wanted .
Harder for the consumer to fight back . Once your sitting in your seat you paid for there is an expectancy by the consumer to fly if not all should have disembarked and then used their discriminatory policy forcing the consumer to use civil address . United workers messed up . The passenger did not have to comply with his removal at that point sitting quietly in his seat with proven identification of purchase with no safety concerns and United should have removed all passengers and then used their discretion on who flys and who doesn't .
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Re: United Airlines overbooked debacle

by ro1313 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:53 pm

beaglehound wrote: True. It still comes down to United handling this so very poorly. I have read that there is a ceiling on how much an airline is willing to offer to have you give up your seat. I was not aware that if they have no takers they can arbitrarily "order" individuals off. Bottom line? Apparently, it doesn't matter if they are already seated.



But do you blame United, or airport security? I don't really believe that United told security to be as aggressive as they were


beaglehound wrote:
Regardless of whether these passengers were seated or still at the gate I find it terribly offensive that any passenger should have to give up a seat and get bumped especially for airline employees.


But these were not just regular employees who felt like taking a trip. They were employees who were needed at the airport destination

BigJoeM wrote: You cannot use physical force for civil matters that do not harm to the public or property . He was dragged out which shows me the police were not there to arrest other than to keep the peace ..


But he refused to leave.


BigJoeM wrote: The passenger did not have to comply with his removal at that point sitting quietly in his seat with proven identification of purchase with no safety concerns and United should have removed all passengers and then used their discretion on who flys and who doesn't .


Actually he did....Technically the plane is private property even though you bough a ticket, if you do not leave when asked to do so, you are trespassing.

What could the airline have done? They acted within their rights. The asked for volunteers, no takers They held their lottery, people were selected, 3 complied 1 refused. What do you do? Pick another name? Now that guy refuses? What now?

Yeah maybe have everyone get off but again, what if someone says no? You had the lottery, he lost, I'm not leaving

150 people are held up on that plane because of 1 guy? What if as I mentioned before they were trying to get pilots to a 747 which holds 450 people? What if these people had a ticket to the superbowl or a cruise? (Yeah its sarcasm but think about it)

United acted within their rights...Security was the problem but again, what can they do?
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Re: United Airlines overbooked debacle

by BigJoeM » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:10 pm

Yes but there is no civil authority to remove in Canada don't know about in the States .

Let's put this in prospective with what if 's . Would you physically remove four black guys or girls , four muslims or would you physically remove a disabled old man or woman if they failed the secret lottery . The four workers are United's problem alone and not the consumers . If you want to discriminate on a passengers claiming a lottery you better let them know they are in a lottery before buying a ticket .

What airlines do is screw you before they board not after as there authority to use force is limited . At no time does someone give up the right not to be touched on the plane unless doing an act that is contrary to the rules . He was not breaking the rules and was not arrested . In order to physically take control of someone in Canada you need an arrest authority .

He has control of the seat as long as he follows the rules of the plane and there is no provision anywhere here that any transportation can run a lottery to remove passengers randomly at any time so they can fly staff for another job somewhere else . That is United's problem alone not the consumer .

If the plane is off the ground in the air and four needed to be tossed off the plane or they crash and die do they have authority to throw four of them off in a lottery . The numbers of people effected don't matter it's the use of force on random passengers that is illegal the passengers travel plans become secondary to using force as a solution .

It fails the test . Removing all passengers and then board you would now have permission
to use force to remove anyone who refuses . This now takes away the act which could be seen as discriminatory
and allows for the staff to act within their rights on boarding . The consumers recourse is now Small Claims court or arbitration within civil law for United's mistake without being physically assaulted .

In essence it fails the test to apply force on a passenger for economic reasons alone especially done by a secret lottery you were not aware of when you purchased a seat . It is better they inconvenienced 150 a little while
by disembarking the plane for a short while than fight physically with a passenger with a discriminatory practice .
I doubt a lottery was even used .

Not mad at you RO just in case I just disagree on the procedure , randomness , use of force ( lack of training ) and authority .
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