Oh - those Russians

Oh - those Russians

by TravelPat1 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:38 pm

Russia was in decline as Europe became more unified and their influence was waning. Their economy was struggling too due in part to the sanctions the USA helped push through against them.

But their plan to overcome that appears to be working like a charm. They've poured millions of dollars into supporting Nationalists parties throughout Europe in the hope that will generate divides within the EU. So politicians like Le Pen and similar nationalist candidates in other Western European countries raise their profiles with Russian help.

Not only through funding to those parties but through massive cyber efforts to discredit the mainstream parties. Through hacking, planting false stories, paying people and programmers to give stories discrediting those they are battling against higher profiles in social media. The clear goal destabilize Europe so they can take advantage.

Those kinds of efforts certainly worked in the American election - the only remaining questions there are how much did Trump associates know about the Russian efforts and when did they know. Were any of their campaign efforts planned with advance knowledxge of the timing of Russian/Wikileak dumps - and were the Russians wanting anything in return?

Evidence is pointing more and more towards at least some of those surrounding Trump being in the loop in spite of West's best efforts to deny that here..

And apparently Russia isn't ignoring Canada either. Apparently it is ramping up its efforts to smear the Canadian Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland. She must concern them to warrant such attention.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/201 ... wells.html

It’s “public knowledge that there have been efforts, as U.S. intelligence forces have said, by Russia to destabilize the U.S. political system,” Freeland said. “I think that Canadians, and indeed other western countries, should be prepared for similar efforts to be directed at us.”

Freeland’s answer was true, as far as it went. Canadians should indeed be prepared for Russia to lead efforts to destabilize Canada’s political leadership. It makes sense that Freeland would be a target. She’s already banned from travelling to Russia, as part of the tit-for-tat game of escalating sanctions the Russians played with the West in the wake of Vladimir Putin’s illegal annexation of Crimea, in Ukraine. Freeland is obviously the leading voice in the government for rebutting Russia’s actions there.

And indeed, tales of Freeland’s grandfather Michael Chomiak have been circulating on pro-Putin social media accounts and websites since January.
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Re: Oh - those Russians

by pigseye2015 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:22 pm

I thought this quote sums it up best,

How in recent years the EU, once the world’s most ambitious peace project, became, from the pauperization of Greece to the confrontation of nuclear powers over Ukraine, a force for sweeping economic and geopolitical destabilization is a story best told elsewhere. For the moment, like their counterparts in Washington, many European leaders seem to lack any vision for the EU’s relationship with Russia other than as a convenient scapegoat for its own ills. It’s time that changed. ~ Matthew Dal Santo
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Re: Oh - those Russians

by West » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:24 pm

Keep asking you for evidence that Trump colluded patty but you cant seem to give any

Pat was wrong about the election. Wrong about the Russians hacking voter machines. And he's probably wrong here.

How does it feel to be wrong so much patty pie?
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Re: Oh - those Russians

by TravelPat1 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:55 pm

I never claimed any voting machines were hacked yet over and over and over again you keep bringing that back up. Is that a poor attempt at deflecting West because you are becoming so concerned as piece by piece the connections of Russia's role in the USA election become clearer and clearer. And as those become clearer the involvement of Trump associates comes more and more into question.

Why did the Trump team push so hard to change the Republican platform on the Russian invasion of the Ukraine in the days leading up to their convention. A time when we now know there were numerous meetings between some involved in the Trump campaign and senior Russian government officials - just days before the Russian hacks of the DNC rolled out through Wikileaks? All just coincidences - right West. :lol:

How did some close advisers to Trump know to tweet about Podesta's upcoming problems - before Wikileaks even dumped those hacked emails? Were they just guessing?

And am I wrong that Russia is pouring moeny in to prop up ultra nationalist parties throughout Europe - even though numerous intelligence agencies and Conservative commentators have pointed that out including many in the Republican Party who have discussed at length the dangers that presents to NATO and the USA? Or do you disagree with all of them?
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Re: Oh - those Russians

by pigseye2015 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:08 pm

:lol: https://counterpropa.com/why-democrats- ... for-trump/


Did Russia really hack the election?

Or, did these 25 bizarre aspects of the FBI’s criminal investigation force Democrats to find a scapegoat nefarious enough to overshadow Clinton’s epic failure?
1.President Bill Clinton’s staffer literally shipped Hillary’s laptop in the mail. Bloomberg first reported this story:


A personal laptop computer used to archive Hillary Clinton’s e-mails when she was secretary of state went missing after being put in the mail, according to the FBI’s report on its investigation into her use of a private e-mail system…

Someone whose name was redacted in the FBI report told the agency that he later deleted the e-mails from the laptop but didn’t wipe its hard drive.

Since Clinton told the FBI she didn’t remember how to read classified markings, there’s a laptop somewhere that has the former Secretary of State’s classified emails.
2.The New York Times on July 6, 2016 published a piece citing security experts who believe Clinton’s server was hacked:


“Reading between the lines and following Comey’s logic, it does sound as if the F.B.I. believes a compromise of Clinton’s email is more likely than not,” said Adam Segal, the author of “Hacked World Order,” who studies cyberissues at the Council on Foreign Relations.

It’s doubtful Clinton didn’t know the risks of using a private server that stored Top Secret intelligence; even if convenience was the excuse.
3.Wired called Clinton’s server a “security fail” primarily because of the following:


Unlike the State Department’s State.gov domain, Clinton’s Clintonemail.com is currently registered with a private domain registrar, Network Solutions, as a simple Whois search reveals…

Anyone who hacked Network Solutions would be able to quietly hijack the Clintonemail.com domain, intercepting, redirecting, and even spoofing email from Clinton’s account.

Clinton stored Top Secret Special Access Program intelligence on this “security fail.”
4.Clinton’s first seven weeks of emails as Secretary of State are missing. POLITICO writes the following:


On March 18, 2009, Hillary Clinton stopped using her longstanding email, hr15@att.blackberry.net, and switched to a new account: hrod17@clintonemail.com. When she switched accounts, all of her old email disappeared—including all of the email from her first seven weeks as secretary of state. To date, neither Clinton nor the FBI have located any of her email from that period.

Madam Secretary is the only State Department official ever to use private email exclusively.
5.The State Department had no ability to access Clinton’s email server. CNN published the following quote from a court interrogatory:


“State objects to this interrogatory on the grounds that it never possessed or controlled clintonemail.com, does not now possess or control clintonemail.com, and thus has no method of identifying which State Department officials and employees had and/or used an account on clintonemail.com to conduct official government business,” lawyers wrote in the filing, released by Judicial Watch Thursday.

Only Clinton and Huma Abedin are believed to have had complete access to the server. Imagine Trump with a private server nobody in government could access.
6.Secretary Clinton used her private network to store Special Access Program Intelligence. NBC News explained SAP’s level of classification:


In a letter to lawmakers, the intelligence community’s internal watchdog says some of Clinton’s emails contained information classified Top Secret/Special Access Program, a secrecy designation that includes some of the most closely held U.S. intelligence matters.

In addition to America’s most sensitive secrets on a private email server, Clinton’s server was unencrypted.
7.Hillary Clinton’s server was unencrypted for three months. As explained by Fortune, it’s likely spies had access to her classified emails:


Venafi, a Salt Lake City computer security firm, has conducted an analysis of clintonemail.com and determined that “for the first three months of Secretary Clinton’s term, access to the server was not encrypted or authenticated with a digital certificate.” In other words: For three months, Clinton’s server lay vulnerable to snooping, hacking, and spoofing.

There’s no reason why Clinton wouldn’t have received classified information during her first three months as Secretary of State.
8.Former Defense Secretary Robert Gates believes Russia, China, and Iran hacked Clinton’s server. Gates is quoted in The Hill saying the following:


Former Defense Secretary Robert Gates says he believes foreign countries like Russia, China and Iran may have hacked the private email server Hillary Clinton used while secretary of State.

“Given the fact that the Pentagon acknowledges that they get attacked about 100,000 times a day, I think the odds are pretty high,” he said

Secretary Gates worked with both Hillary Clinton and President Obama.
9.Clinton stored emails (likely classified) on a two different “cloud” storage firms. McClatchy DC broke this story:


WASHINGTON

A Connecticut company, which backed up Hillary Clinton‘s emails at the request of a Colorado firm, apparently surprised her aides by storing the emails on a “cloud” storage system designed to optimize data recovery.

The firm, Datto Inc., said Wednesday that it turned over the contents of its storage to the FBI on Tuesday.

…Datto and Platte River seemed at odds, however, over how Clinton’s emails wound up on Datto’s cloud storage, which may have resulted from a misunderstanding.

Both Datto and Platte River initially weren’t aware that Clinton’s emails might contain classified intelligence.
10.Employees at Platte River, one of the cloud storage firms given Clinton’s emails, wrote incriminating details of their task. As explained by Jake Tapper on CNN, a Platte River work ticked actually read “Hillary Coverup Operation”:


JAKE TAPPER, CNN: There was a document dump on Friday where we learned from the FBI that an I.T. contractor managing Hillary Clinton’s private e-mail server made reference to the “Hillary coverup operation” in a work ticket.

He used that after an aide asked him to automatically delete emails after 60 days. This I.T. worker thought he was covering something up, no?

Robby Mook answered Tapper by saying these accusation were merely “swirling around out the ether.”
11.Hillary Clinton is quoted in The Washington Post as initially saying she used a personal email account for convenience:


“First, when I got to work as Secretary of State, I opted for convenience to use my personal email account, which was allowed by the State Department, because I thought it would be easier to carry just one device for my work and for my personal emails instead of two.”

Clinton was said to be the most qualified candidate in American history to run the country. There’s no way she’d be naïve enough to store Top Secret intelligence on an unencrypted private server.
12.Secretary Clinton stored 22 Top Secret emails on an unencrypted private server. POLITICO stated the following after certain emails were deemed Top secret:


The furor over Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email account grew more serious for the Democratic presidential front-runner Friday as the State Department designated 22 of the messages from her account “top secret.”

It’s certain Hillary Clinton knew she’d be receiving these Top Secret emails as Secretary of State (she couldn’t have done her job without expecting to receive classified intelligence), yet decided to use a private server; knowing the risks involved.

Therefore, did Clinton never expect to receive Top Secret intelligence as Secretary of State?

Or, did she know she’d be receiving Top Secret intelligence, but still accept the risks of an unencrypted server merely for convenience?
13.CNN quotes the FBI’s James Comey stating Clinton was “extremely careless” in the handing of classified intelligence:


“…there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.”

Mr. Comey should review the other 24 reasons on this list to consider Clinton’s intent and knowledge of the harm done (by her server) to national security.
14.The Denver Post reported that a Platte River employee used BleachBit to delete Clinton’s emails:


Sometime between March 25 and 31, 2015, the Platte River employee had an “Oh expletive moment” that the files weren’t deleted. He told the FBI that he then “deleted the Clinton archive mailbox from the PRN server and used BleachBit to delete the exported .PST files he had created on the server system containing Clinton’s e-mails,” according to the FBI report.

There were many “oh expletive moments” during the FBI’s email investigation.
15.Redditors reported that one Platte River employee asked for help deleting Clinton’s emails. The Hill published an interesting Reddit post from a user named “Stonetear”:


“I may be facing a very interesting situation where I need to strip out a VIP’s (VERY VIP) email address from a bunch of archived email… Basically, they don’t want the VIP’s email address exposed to anyone, and want to be able to either strip out or replace the email address in the to/from fields in all of the emails we want to send out,” reads the post, by a user called “stonetear.”

Stonetear eventually pleaded the Fifth Amendment.
16.The NSA rejected Clinton’s request for a secure Blackberry. CBS News states she continued using an unsecured device:


The department’s designated NSA liaison, whose name was redacted from the documents, expressed concerns about security vulnerabilities inherent with using BlackBerry devices for secure communications or in secure areas. However, the specific reasons Clinton’s requests were rebuffed are being kept secret by the State Department.

The following month, in March 2009, Clinton began using private email accounts accessed through her BlackBerry to exchange messages with her top aides.

The use of mobile devices without NSA approval says everything about Clinton’s intention to keep emails private.
17.As of March 16, 2016 CBS News writes:


“There are currently at least 38 lawsuits, including one filed by The Associated Press, seeking records related to Clinton’s service as secretary of state from 2009 to 2013.”

Clinton’s use of a private server is almost certainly tied to a desire to keep emails away from FOIA lawsuits.
18.WikiLeaks Podesta emails quoting Cheryl Mills prove the Justice Department should never have given attorney client privilege to Mills and Clinton.


On March 7, 2016 Mills wrote “we need to clean this up – he has emails from her – they do not say

state.gov.”

This email not only implicates President Obama, but also proves Mills knew of the server; something she claims never to have known before the scandal erupted.
19.Podesta and Mills knew the server would be a political liability. POLITICO writes that Mills warned Clinton about running for office:


In a hacked email chain posted Sunday by WikiLeaks, Podesta suggests that close Clinton confidante Cheryl Mills had been against Clinton’s decision to mount another presidential run. The disclosure of her private email server may have been the cause, he said.

This completely undermines Clinton’s “convenience” excuse.
20.Clinton personally paid Brian Pagliano to set up and maintain her email server. The Washington Post explains their agreement:


Pagliano had served as the IT director of Clinton’s 2008 presidential campaign and then worked for her political action committee.

The Clintons paid Pagliano $5,000 for “computer services” prior to his joining the State Department, according to a financial disclosure form he filed in April 2009.

But even after arriving at State in May 2009, Pagliano continued to be paid by the Clintons to maintain the server, which was in their Chappaqua, N.Y., home, according to the campaign official and another person familiar with the arrangement.

Paying someone to set up and maintain an email server shows intent; at least intent to circumvent government networks.
21.Pagliano’s emails during four years at the State Department are missing. The Hill reported this story:


“[T]he State Department has represented that no responsive records exist … [of] [a]ny and all emails sent to, or sent by, Bryan Pagliano for the time period May 1, 2009 through February 1, 2013,” the RNC said in a filing as part of the court case.

Where are Pagliano’s emails and why doesn’t the State Department have them?
22.While Clinton eventually stated she never sent or received emails marked classified, Reuters reported that certain emails are “born” classified:


This sort of information, which the department says Clinton both sent and received in her emails, is the only kind that must be “presumed” classified, in part to protect national security and the integrity of diplomatic interactions, according to U.S. regulations examined by Reuters.

“It’s born classified,” said J. William Leonard, a former director of the U.S. government’s Information Security Oversight Office (ISOO).

Clinton’s emails weren’t only retroactively classified, many were “born” classified from the start.
23.Clinton’s email server contained around 2,000 retroactively classified emails from the same intelligence community now admired by Democrats. POLITIFACT states the following:


Clinton has consistently said she didn’t send or receive anything marked classified at the time they were sent — and the approximately 2,000 emails that the State Department classified before their public release were victim to retroactive classification.

In addition to Top Secret intelligence, around 2,000 emails should never have been on a private server (that was initially unencrypted). Again, whistleblower Jeffrey Sterling is serving a prison sentence because of retroactively classified information.
24.Clinton claims never to have sent or received classified information, but POLITIFACT refutes this claim:


The FBI investigation found 110 emails in 52 email chains that contained information that was classified at the time it was sent or received. Eight chains contained top secret information, the highest level of classification, 36 chains contained secret information, and the remaining eight contained confidential information.

Clinton sent and received classified and Top Secret information from a private server.
25.The Hill writes that Clinton deleted half of her emails as Secretary of State:


According to FBI Director James Comey, investigators “discovered several thousand work-related” messages that were not among the roughly 30,000 emails Clinton gave to the government in 2014. The former secretary of State and her lawyers deleted approximately half of the 60,000 emails on her server, claiming at the time that they were purely personal and did not belong in the government’s hands.

What on Earth was Clinton doing half the time as Secretary of State?

If you read the 25 reasons above and think “That’s the past, focus on Trump’s danger to the country,” then enjoy Trump’s reelection in 2020. The only way to defeat Trump is to ensure that Democrats remember every aspect of Clinton’s email scandal, and how this controversy resulted in a Trump White House. The FBI’s letter one week before the election isn’t Comey’s fault; it’s the fault of Democrats who believed Clinton could win alongside criminal probes. Blaming Russia worked in 2016, but Democrats might need to find another country to blame in 2020. Also, if you find Clinton’s lost laptop in the mail, notify the authorities.
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Re: Oh - those Russians

by BigJoeM » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:54 pm

TPat wrote
:But their plan to overcome that appears to be working like a charm. They've poured millions of dollars into supporting Nationalists parties throughout Europe in the hope that will generate divides within the EU. So politicians like Le Pen and similar nationalist candidates in other Western European countries raise their profiles with Russian help.


You have to admit the EU is a financial mess because of the Euro's value not matching up with the value of the individuals states ability to pay for their social programs because of the tax base cannot match the payout on National Programs . The nationalists parties rise is because of dumb policies like Merkel's migrant disaster . Germany leads the EU and has made huge mistakes . Britain's exit was smart and forward thinking . The Russians have nothing to do with it .

The UK is right behind Switzerland (not EU ) and Canada as the best places to live . UK rise and other governments jingoistic rise is they don't want unelected people telling them what to do and they don't want to live where they are like dominoes if one falls they all fall .
There was a man who had nothing to hide so he didn't care about privacy and I knew another who had nothing to say so he didn't care about free speech .
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Re: Oh - those Russians

by ryan3434 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:26 pm

pigseye2015 wrote:I thought this quote sums it up best,

How in recent years the EU, once the world’s most ambitious peace project, became, from the pauperization of Greece to the confrontation of nuclear powers over Ukraine, a force for sweeping economic and geopolitical destabilization is a story best told elsewhere. For the moment, like their counterparts in Washington, many European leaders seem to lack any vision for the EU’s relationship with Russia other than as a convenient scapegoat for its own ills. It’s time that changed. ~ Matthew Dal Santo

/end thread
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Re: Oh - those Russians

by West » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:37 pm

Dang. Pigseye bringing the voice of reason to the thread :thup:
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Re: Oh - those Russians

by ryan3434 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:41 pm

Its over West. They found the connection with the Russians.. :(

http://thehill.com/policy/international ... to-clinton
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Re: Oh - those Russians

by West » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:28 am

ryan3434 wrote:Its over West. They found the connection with the Russians.. :(

http://thehill.com/policy/international ... to-clinton


Wow!! Crooked Hillary meeting with the Russians.

Looks like our forum lefties have some explaining to do
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Re: Oh - those Russians

by ryan3434 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:51 am

West wrote:
ryan3434 wrote:Its over West. They found the connection with the Russians.. :(

http://thehill.com/policy/international ... to-clinton


Wow!! Crooked Hillary meeting with the Russians.

Looks like our forum lefties have some explaining to do

Nah the shifting of goalpost already began West. It went from "OMG look proof Trumps officials meet with Russia. So shady".
Then flopped after Clinton did same to
"Yah no big deal Trump officials meet with Russia it happens all the time but why did he Lie omg"
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