Canadian Politics

Re: Canadian Politics

by PTBO Dave » Tue May 02, 2017 6:24 am

jamie wrote:This is a tough one.
When you look at the totality of the man and career I would say no to firing him.


I agree. He'll deserve the greater scrutiny he receives after his Trump-like bluster, but he apologized, so I think he deserves the opportunity to show us how much of the apology was calculated platitude and how much genuine remorse.

I also support Trudeau's support of Sajjan at this time. Don't support the man in his lie, but do support him in his contrition.
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Re: Canadian Politics

by PTBO Dave » Tue May 02, 2017 6:26 am

Liquor Kitty wrote:
Aerial wrote:O'Leary out as he says he can't win in Quebec in a general election. Probably correct on that.

Kevin O’Leary drops out, endorses Maxime Bernier for Conservative leadership

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... e34818970/


Good. Enough said.


Agreed. Canadians are getting a taste of what it's like have a leader with little experience but a famous name. And it's not particularly sweet.
What all men speak well of, look critically into; what all men condemn, examine first before you decide.
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When people are fanatically dedicated to political or religious faiths or any other kind of dogmas or goals, it's always because these dogmas or goals are in doubt. -Robert M. Pirsig
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Re: Canadian Politics

by West » Tue May 02, 2017 6:41 am

As dumb as the lie was, and it was a whopper, it still does not negate his rather impressive resume. As much as I dislike the Liberals, I think he was and still is a good choice for the job
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Re: Canadian Politics

by beaglehound » Tue May 02, 2017 9:32 am

jamie wrote:Perhaps a bit harsh BH...


No doubt some will think it rather harsh Jamie.

Trudeau said, "When we make a mistake, Canadians expect us to apologize and to acknowledge that mistake." True. It would be nice if it were that simple. "Ooops I made a mistake, I am sorry, can we just let it go." I guess politicians do that all the time. "Oooops, I promised this or I said that. Sorry, I made a mistake. I was wrong. I shouldn't have made those promises to get elected." What is the difference Jamie?

I read the link. Thanks for posting it. Sajjan said he made a mistake and he's prepared to own it. Well, that is what he says but has he given an explanation for why he embellished and lied? It is fine for him to admit he was wrong but I'd like to hear him explain why he did what he did. I've not read anything so far. What if this information never surfaced and he never got caught? Would he ever have been forth coming and later on voluntarily admitted this transgression or did it only become a "mistake" because he got caught? I guess we're never going to know. Not all is as it seems. I would like to think the person I'm talking to or dealing with is the genuine article.

Mistakes can and should be forgiven and reconciliation can be re-established. But reconciliation does not always translate into restoration. All does not return to where it once was in many cases. Did he have to embellish and lie? No. Why did he? To me that is the crux of the matter. Especially in this day and age of fake news, untrustworthy governments and politicians.

I'm not suggesting that Sajjan resign as MP but I am just not one that sees lying as a legitimate means to an end.
Last edited by beaglehound on Tue May 02, 2017 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Canadian Politics

by Aerial » Tue May 02, 2017 10:25 am

beagle, along those lines, you might be interested in this book which I'm reading right now So You've Been Publicly Shamed and tells the saga of Jonah Lehrer, among others, which I have found interesting especially about what exactly is an apology from how the public views it and how it can or cannot affect your career:

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/cult ... raced.html
Resilience is accepting your new reality, even if it's less good than the one you had before - Elizabeth Edwards
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Re: Canadian Politics

by beaglehound » Wed May 03, 2017 11:09 pm

Aerial wrote:beagle, along those lines, you might be interested in this book which I'm reading right now So You've Been Publicly Shamed and tells the saga of Jonah Lehrer, among others, which I have found interesting especially about what exactly is an apology from how the public views it and how it can or cannot affect your career:

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/cult ... raced.html


An interesting article Aerial. Thanks for the reference. I read the guy's article and it certain drives home some very good points. In Sajjan's case I want to hear him admit why he did what he did. That would be taking ownership. Just saying I made a mistake isn't enough. And as I mentioned earlier, there should certainly be an opportunity to be forgiven which can lead to reconciliation but reconciliation does not always translate into restoration. I would like this guy to admit that he lied to further his own political ambitions. Making that admission would be taking ownership. It would not lead to restoration in my opinion but at least it would be showing a greater degree of respect for those whom he lied to. That to me would be a greater acknowledgement of the gravity of the lie than to simply say I made a mistake.
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Re: Canadian Politics

by Aerial » Thu May 04, 2017 7:14 am

Well to admit that you lied shows predeterminate thought and there aren't many public figures who would go on record admitting that I would say. But yes, I think this is what the public demands if in fact it is the case, rightly demands to be more accurate. And often I think the public can read both the verbal and the non-verbal communication of an interview to see exactly how genuine an apology is. I also think that most people if asked if they were purposely lying from the get go would deny it and just say they made a mistake where their head wasn't in the right place sort of thing.
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Re: Canadian Politics

by West » Wed May 10, 2017 2:34 am

Looks like BC turfed the Liberals for the NDP minority. Probably a good decision.
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Re: Canadian Politics

by Liquor Kitty » Wed May 10, 2017 7:38 am

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Re: Canadian Politics

by jamie » Wed May 10, 2017 10:16 am

In BC

Libs: 43 seats
NDP: 41
Green: 3

So far it's a Lib minority with Green Party holding balance.

But not yet decided...one riding will be an auto recount ( with a 9 vote diff)

And absentee and early votes yet to be counted.

Amazing night.
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Re: Canadian Politics

by pigseye2015 » Wed May 10, 2017 6:11 pm

I feel sorry for the people of BC, they can't see the forest for the trees and the crash that is coming.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/sarah-mill ... 47276.html

So while the multi-million dollar spin machine runs at full speed I recommend that everyone take a look around their community and province; at the people dying on the streets, the families living in their cars, the long line ups at the food banks, the falling apart school buildings, overcrowded hospitals and make up your own mind about how well we are doing as a province.Because Clark and the B.C. Liberals are clearly living in their own little bubble that very few of us could ever afford to live in.
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Re: Canadian Politics

by jamie » Wed May 10, 2017 7:14 pm

What part of BC do you live in pigseye and did the election results surprise you?
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Re: Canadian Politics

by PTBO Dave » Thu May 11, 2017 12:07 pm

What all men speak well of, look critically into; what all men condemn, examine first before you decide.
-Confucius

When people are fanatically dedicated to political or religious faiths or any other kind of dogmas or goals, it's always because these dogmas or goals are in doubt. -Robert M. Pirsig
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Re: Canadian Politics

by West » Thu May 11, 2017 1:50 pm



Cant expect anything less from the Liberal Party of Canada.
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Re: Canadian Politics

by jamie » Thu May 11, 2017 2:26 pm

No question Dave. Trudeau's reluctance to answer this directly and the way he answered is totally unacceptable.
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