Liberalism... The growing mental disorder.

Re: Liberalism... The growing mental disorder.

by OttSens » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:22 pm

beaglehound wrote:OttSens writes:

"Regarding moving the bakery that is moving the goalposts. You are comparing gay people (whose homosexuality does absolutely nothing to fringe upon the rights of others."

On the contrary. It would be an infringement on a priest or pastor's right to decline performing a same sex marriage ceremony on biblical grounds if said pastor were accused of discrimination. The priest or pastor has the lawful right to exercise in good conscience his or her religious freedom.


When has a pastor been forced to marry a gay couple?
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Re: Liberalism... The growing mental disorder.

by OttSens » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:28 pm

RedandWhite wrote:...interesting that because of a human created situation we are forced to figure out ways to explain it to the most innocent minds...


What are you trying to say here? Much of the stuff we learn in school is human created. I learned about Canada, WW2, computers, and English in school. Isn't that " a human created situation" where in school we "figure out ways to explain it to the most innocent minds...". What is the point of this post? What is this "human created situation" you are referring to? Why is it worth noting we have to "explain it to the most innocent minds"?
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Re: Liberalism... The growing mental disorder.

by beaglehound » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:50 pm

OttSens wrote:
beaglehound wrote:OttSens writes:

"Regarding moving the bakery that is moving the goalposts. You are comparing gay people (whose homosexuality does absolutely nothing to fringe upon the rights of others."

On the contrary. It would be an infringement on a priest or pastor's right to decline performing a same sex marriage ceremony on biblical grounds if said pastor were accused of discrimination. The priest or pastor has the lawful right to exercise in good conscience his or her religious freedom.


When has a pastor been forced to marry a gay couple?


What do you mean by "forced"?
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Re: Liberalism... The growing mental disorder.

by OttSens » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:03 pm

beaglehound wrote:
OttSens wrote:
beaglehound wrote:OttSens writes:

"Regarding moving the bakery that is moving the goalposts. You are comparing gay people (whose homosexuality does absolutely nothing to fringe upon the rights of others."

On the contrary. It would be an infringement on a priest or pastor's right to decline performing a same sex marriage ceremony on biblical grounds if said pastor were accused of discrimination. The priest or pastor has the lawful right to exercise in good conscience his or her religious freedom.


When has a pastor been forced to marry a gay couple?


What do you mean by "forced"?



You said:


"On the contrary. It would be an infringement on a priest or pastor's right to decline performing a same sex marriage ceremony on biblical grounds if said pastor were accused of discrimination. The priest or pastor has the lawful right to exercise in good conscience his or her religious freedom."

When has a pastor tried to exercise that right, but been denied?
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Re: Liberalism... The growing mental disorder.

by PTBO Dave » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:56 pm

OttSens wrote:
Regarding moving the bakery that is moving the goalposts. You are comparing gay people (whose homosexuality does absolutely nothing to fringe upon the rights of others) with honour killers (whose actions obvious do quite a lot to infringe upon the rights of others).


Granted, they're not perfect analogs. The point is about allowing people the freedom to follow their religious or moral beliefs.

How about a vegan bakery refusing to bake a cake celebrating Janie's first deer hunt?

How about a bakery supporting political party A refusing to bake a cake celebrating the victory of a candidate from party B?

In all those cases, I would support the right of the bakery owner to follow his or her conscience. Similarly, I would support the right of the honor killers, hunters, party supporters, homosexual couples, etc. to boycott the bakeries in question. I wouldn't, however, support the government forcing the bakery owner to bake against his or her conscience.
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Re: Liberalism... The growing mental disorder.

by OttSens » Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:05 pm

PTBO Dave wrote:
OttSens wrote:
Regarding moving the bakery that is moving the goalposts. You are comparing gay people (whose homosexuality does absolutely nothing to fringe upon the rights of others) with honour killers (whose actions obvious do quite a lot to infringe upon the rights of others).


Granted, they're not perfect analogs. The point is about allowing people the freedom to follow their religious or moral beliefs.

How about a vegan bakery refusing to bake a cake celebrating Janie's first deer hunt?

How about a bakery supporting political party A refusing to bake a cake celebrating the victory of a candidate from party B?

In all those cases, I would support the right of the bakery owner to follow his or her conscience. Similarly, I would support the right of the honor killers, hunters, party supporters, homosexual couples, etc. to boycott the bakeries in question. I wouldn't, however, support the government forcing the bakery owner to bake against his or her conscience.



Yeah, the baker has that right. The government also does not have the right to force a business to take on certain clients. And to my knowledge they never have tried to force a business to do that.
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Re: Liberalism... The growing mental disorder.

by beaglehound » Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:44 pm

"On the contrary. It would be an infringement on a priest or pastor's right to decline performing a same sex marriage ceremony on biblical grounds if said pastor were accused of discrimination. The priest or pastor has the lawful right to exercise in good conscience his or her religious freedom."

OttSens asks: "When has a pastor tried to exercise that right, but been denied?"

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... rry-gays-/
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Re: Liberalism... The growing mental disorder.

by OttSens » Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:59 pm

beaglehound wrote:"On the contrary. It would be an infringement on a priest or pastor's right to decline performing a same sex marriage ceremony on biblical grounds if said pastor were accused of discrimination. The priest or pastor has the lawful right to exercise in good conscience his or her religious freedom."

OttSens asks: "When has a pastor tried to exercise that right, but been denied?"

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... rry-gays-/


I was unaware of this story. I certainly don't like that pastors can be faced with jail time.


What I would like to see is more marriages done without the involvement of religion, but the involvement of the state. That way gay couples could get married by someone who feels comfortable with marrying them.
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Re: Liberalism... The growing mental disorder.

by beaglehound » Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:04 pm

OttSens writes: "What I would like to see is more marriages done without the involvement of religion, but the involvement of the state. That way gay couples could get married by someone who feels comfortable with marrying them."

I agree. Aren't they call civil marriages and performed by a justice of the peace?
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Re: Liberalism... The growing mental disorder.

by OttSens » Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:16 pm

beaglehound wrote:OttSens writes: "What I would like to see is more marriages done without the involvement of religion, but the involvement of the state. That way gay couples could get married by someone who feels comfortable with marrying them."

I agree. Aren't they call civil marriages and performed by a justice of the peace?


I think so, but it is just not as common. People seem to want to be married by a religious figure.
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Re: Liberalism... The growing mental disorder.

by Aerial » Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:27 pm

Yup, as a non practicing Catholic, someone who grew up in the Catholic Church, married someone like me who didn't want anything to do with the Catholic Church and said a simple state marriage was fine, I said no, I wanted someone of some Christian training to marry us so we settled on an Evangelical Protestant Minister.

As much as I don't agree with everything Christianity espouses and as a non-practicing Christian, er Catholic, but someone who retains a certain degree of what Christianity stands for, how could anyone not think that the 10 commandments are not a goal to aspire to if you were raised Christian, a state marriage was out of the question for me and the Catholic Church with their doctrines on marriage wasn't going to work, so an Evangelical Minister worked.

Marriage does have a very spiritual aspect to it IMHO that a state marriage just doesn't cut it for me. If I was raised as a Muslim in whatever Muslim sect but that sect didn't make sense, I'd probably do similar in that vein for marriage, just not a state marriage.

Marriage must be, IMHO, a very spiritual experience that demands some sort of spiritual theism. Some state person marriage, while fine for some, just doesn't cut it for me.
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Re: Liberalism... The growing mental disorder.

by DAN38 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:04 am

I know more than few people who never went to Church, didn't believe in 'that bunk' as they called it, yet they had to be married in a Church by a priest or minister. Same with some Jewish friends and their rabbi. Most of these non-believers also had to have all their children baptized. Then none of them ever went back to Church...When illness hit them, they turned to their respective Churches. When death came to an ailing mother or father, there was always the call to the Minister.....Funny how that works.
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Re: Liberalism... The growing mental disorder.

by Aerial » Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:48 am

True enough DAN. I'm not sure I'll ever be connected to any Church in my life regularly but I will always feel, or hopefully anyways, feel a need to connect to a "God" image of some sort, a higher force or power if you will, to help make sense of my life and what is happening and the world.
Resilience is accepting your new reality, even if it's less good than the one you had before - Elizabeth Edwards
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Re: Liberalism... The growing mental disorder.

by West » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:03 pm

More from the lunatics on the left. A leftist is arrested after making threats to the staff of a Republican congressman.

"You know how liberals are going to solve the Republican problem? ... They are going to get better aim. That last guy tried, but he needed better aim. We will get better aim."


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/07 ... staff.html

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Re: Liberalism... The growing mental disorder.

by West » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:47 am

A law firm who specializes in defending religious liberty is defined as a 'hate group' by the Looney Left.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/07/ ... group.html
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