CFL 2016 final attendance - who's trending up/down for 2017?

Re: CFL 2016 final attendance - who's trending up/down for 2

by slimjim2 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:04 pm

stats junkie wrote:
rhymes with orange wrote:It's from the league's own database, CFLdb so I can't speak to the reasons for the variance or its accuracy, other than to say the source itself is credible.

I took the numbers directly from column B (2016 attendance) and column D (home variance - which I assumed meant net increases/decreases from the previous (2015) year) for my table.

- if you scroll to the bottom of any page of the CFLdb site you will find this disclaimer

CFLdb is not affiliated with the CFL, CFLPA, any other Canadian Football organization or really anybody at all.


- as for the variance, it appears to be how much the attendance varies from the league average. It is not an indication of change in attendance from one season to the next.


Yes, now that would make sense, the variance in the table would be the difference between the individual teams attendance and the average league attendance. The Als would be 4,300 below the average CFL attendance, the Argos 8,300 below, Ottawa at the average and teams like the Esks and Riders 4k above the league average.
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Re: CFL 2016 final attendance - who's trending up/down for 2

by rhymes with orange » Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:23 pm

stats junkie wrote:- if you scroll to the bottom of any page of the CFLdb site you will find this disclaimer

CFLdb is not affiliated with the CFL, CFLPA, any other Canadian Football organization or really anybody at all.


- as for the variance, it appears to be how much the attendance varies from the league average. It is not an indication of change in attendance from one season to the next.


Okay, thanks for pointing this out. :thup:

I had assumed (with only a cursory review) that "home variance" meant the YOY difference for each team, not the change from the league average (which now makes sense). Regardless, the main idea here was to report 2016 attendance numbers and, while not coming from a direct league source, I have found CFLdb data to be accurate in the past for other projects that I have used it for.
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Re: CFL 2016 final attendance - who's trending up/down for 2

by Grover » Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:26 am

RedBlacks sold out every game and the Sens are 2000 short in the 2nd round of the playoffs, go figure. :o

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Announced attendance was 16,744 in Ottawa tonight -- almost 2,000 below capacity.
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Re: CFL 2016 final attendance - who's trending up/down for 2

by slimjim2 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:02 am

Grover wrote:RedBlacks sold out every game and the Sens are 2000 short in the 2nd round of the playoffs, go figure. :o

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Announced attendance was 16,744 in Ottawa tonight -- almost 2,000 below capacity.


Yep - Spend $96 for a 300-level seat plus $20-$30 for parking (a fan sore point) and $10 for a beer? Or catch the game for free on Elgin Street or the ByWard Market and enjoy a $7 domestic pint in 24C weather?

With the Sens making $50 Million from the TSN and Rogers TV deals, I don't think they are too worried about 2k empty seats.
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Re: CFL 2016 final attendance - who's trending up/down for 2

by TravelPat1 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:04 am

Wow! 2000 unsold seats. I only saw the highlights and when they panned the crowd after one Ottawa goal I noted a few of the private boxes looked at least half empty too - and that surprised me. I didn't realize there were so many unsold seats too. Shocking really for a Canadian NHL team - especially one with a bunch of really great Masterton Award - type stories surrounding the team's roster too. Having just beat Boston in an exciting first round series - to have 2,000 empty seats for a second round playoff game...... That is shocking. Most other Canadian arenas (heck - most NHL arenas - period) the tickets would sell out in minutes from the time they went on sale.

This would sort of be like the Riders having thousands of unsold seats for a Western final game.

Add to that the embarrassing scene of apparently having arena staff sent around to recover rally towels that were left on unsold seats part way through the first period. I can just see it - staff walking up the aisles 'Excuse me folks - could you please pass me those towels that are on seats 8 and 9 over there'.

The local Ottawa media's take. - http://ottawacitizen.com/sports/hockey/ ... st-rangers

Hundreds of empty seats stood out like very sore thumbs at the top of the upper bowls at Canadian Tire Centre on Thursday night, a fact that is sad, disgraceful and embarrassing for both Ottawa and the Senators organization.

It also likely led to very sore thumbs for arena employees who, eight minutes after the opening face-off, were ordered to walk around picking up all the extra souvenir wave towels. Make sure nobody gets two, right? Save them for Saturday.

Seriously, what’s going on here people? How is it possible that the first game of Round 2 was not sold out? Did we forget to mention only eight teams remain in the hunt for the coveted Stanley Cup?


The Redblacks should take note and not take sellouts for granted. Apparently Ottawa sports fans are rather ....... I can't think of the best word. Fickle doesn't really cover it.
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Re: CFL 2016 final attendance - who's trending up/down for 2

by Mightygoose » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:20 am

Yikes, I don't care how anyone can spin this. It's bad with 2K unsold seats and there seems to be about 1000 left for tomorrow.

I know the Argos gets the brunt of attendance here but they're 5th on the totem pole here. We're talking about a freaking Stanley Cup Playoff game here. Though they will be in better shape being downtown, it shouldn't matter here. Even at 96.00, it's a steal compared to any other Canadian city or most US ones for that matter.
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Re: CFL 2016 final attendance - who's trending up/down for 2

by bobo82 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:28 am

Just went on StubHub out of curiosity and you can get tickets for as low as $80.00 . For NHL play-off hockey that is unbelievably reasonable and a great bargain all things considered .

https://www.stubhub.com/ottawa-senators ... =price+asc
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Re: CFL 2016 final attendance - who's trending up/down for 2

by slimjim2 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:09 am

bobo82 wrote:Just went on StubHub out of curiosity and you can get tickets for as low as $80.00 . For NHL play-off hockey that is unbelievably reasonable and a great bargain all things considered .

https://www.stubhub.com/ottawa-senators ... =price+asc


Yea, but that's $80 US = $110 Cdn, and that's the cheap upper bowl where you can't see the puck!!
two people $220 plus $20 parking and $10 beer.
No I wouldn't attend an NHL game for those prices.

But this thread is titled " CFL final attendance" - no relevance to the CFL
It's funny how people are quick to bring up things like empty seats at NHL or MLS or Jays games, as though it somehow makes us CFL fans feel better :?
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Re: CFL 2016 final attendance - who's trending up/down for 2

by Grover » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:49 am

slimjim2 wrote:
bobo82 wrote:Just went on StubHub out of curiosity and you can get tickets for as low as $80.00 . For NHL play-off hockey that is unbelievably reasonable and a great bargain all things considered .

https://www.stubhub.com/ottawa-senators ... =price+asc


Yea, but that's $80 US = $110 Cdn, and that's the cheap upper bowl where you can't see the puck!!
two people $220 plus $20 parking and $10 beer.
No I wouldn't attend an NHL game for those prices.

But this thread is titled " CFL final attendance" - no relevance to the CFL
It's funny how people are quick to bring up things like empty seats at NHL or MLS or Jays games, as though it somehow makes us CFL fans feel better :?


Jim, It just points to how fickle the Ottawa sports fan is.
The RedBlacks sold out attendance has been phenomenal, but, this could be an omen of what can happen if fans and teams become complacent.
I am sure this is a big wakeup call to the SENS.
It is much easier to lose fans of your team than it is gain fans.
Once a fan is lost, it is very difficult to get fans back once they have moved on

Good read here on why SENS attendance is down
http://www.tsn.ca/there-s-no-playoff-fe ... e-1.737420
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Re: CFL 2016 final attendance - who's trending up/down for 2

by rhymes with orange » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:25 am

I guess you can loop this back to the CFL with the question "to paper the house a bit or not to?"

CFL Semi-Finals have always been a harder sell as the home team often has just 1 week to sell the game (i.e. Winnipeg at BC last year) and/or it's going to be played in colder weather.

Should clubs discount seats or offer promos to get a respectable gate? Or does this diminish the value of your brand and alter the perception out there (or is the perception "nobody cares" worse than "they offer discounts")?

Should the Sens have considered doing similar to move those 2K tickets? Offered a "last minute" deal or Groupon? That way, this would not be a talking point right now it's "Sens attendance" grabbing the headlines instead of their "impressive playoff run to date" which should be the focus.
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Re: CFL 2016 final attendance - who's trending up/down for 2

by The Last Word » Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:30 pm

slimjim2 wrote:
Grover wrote:RedBlacks sold out every game and the Sens are 2000 short in the 2nd round of the playoffs, go figure. :o

Chris Johnston‏Verified account
@reporterchris
Announced attendance was 16,744 in Ottawa tonight -- almost 2,000 below capacity.


Yep - Spend $96 for a 300-level seat plus $20-$30 for parking (a fan sore point) and $10 for a beer? Or catch the game for free on Elgin Street or the ByWard Market and enjoy a $7 domestic pint in 24C weather?

With the Sens making $50 Million from the TSN and Rogers TV deals, I don't think they are too worried about 2k empty seats.


They most certainly are worried. Last year Melnyk complained about the team losing money if they don't make the playoffs. The TV deal isn't nearly rich enough to cover all the expenses involved in running the Sens operations.

$50 million from the Canadian/regional tv deal = less than $40 million US

Sens are spending $65 million US on team salaries alone = $80 million Canadian
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Re: CFL 2016 final attendance - who's trending up/down for 2

by KevinRiley2 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:00 pm

slimjim2 wrote:With the Sens making $50 Million from the TSN and Rogers TV deals, I don't think they are too worried about 2k empty seats.

Where did you get $50M???

You are going to be the death of me, Jim. :x
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Re: CFL 2016 final attendance - who's trending up/down for 2

by Xvys » Sat May 20, 2017 10:12 pm

I'll project that every team will trend up attendance-wise this season. The league seems to be an upswing. The off-season coverage has been tremendous this year, especially compared to the sour feelings to start the last two years (acrimonious CBA negotiations, eye-opening Sportsnet graphs comparing CFL & NFL salaries, the lack of competent drug testing, etc.)

Now everything is peachy keen. All the teams with new stadiums are sitting pretty, with Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver poised for increased attendance after a few dismal years. Trestman with the Argos, a revamped fan-friendly Als administration and the Lions on the upswing with a potentially dominating offence this season...bodes well for major market rebound.

The good times are here again my friends! The entire league is trending up, up, up!!

The TV ratings should also rebound strongly this season. Interest in many of the teams is bursting at the seams. The ratings for the Riders exhibition game with Vince Young starting should be record-breaking on both sides of the border. Let the games begin! :thup:
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Re: CFL 2016 final attendance - who's trending up/down for 2

by Grover » Sat May 20, 2017 11:30 pm

KevinRiley2 wrote:
slimjim2 wrote:With the Sens making $50 Million from the TSN and Rogers TV deals, I don't think they are too worried about 2k empty seats.

Where did you get $50M???

You are going to be the death of me, Jim. :x


The total is $40M Canadian for the SENS TV rights from both TSN and Sportsnet

"As first reported by the Ottawa Sun Wednesday, the Senators have signed a monumental 12-year agreement regional broadcast agreement for radio and TV with Bell Media that league sources confirmed could be worth up to $400 million when it expires in 2025-26.

Coupled with the $16 million the Senators will receive from the new national package that the NHL signed with Sportsnet in December, the club could get more than $40 million from broadcast revenues along next season."


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Re: CFL 2016 final attendance - who's trending up/down for 2

by KevinRiley2 » Sat May 20, 2017 11:41 pm

Grover wrote:
KevinRiley2 wrote:
slimjim2 wrote:With the Sens making $50 Million from the TSN and Rogers TV deals, I don't think they are too worried about 2k empty seats.

Where did you get $50M???

You are going to be the death of me, Jim. :x


The total is $40M Canadian for the SENS TV rights from both TSN and Sportsnet

"As first reported by the Ottawa Sun Wednesday, the Senators have signed a monumental 12-year agreement regional broadcast agreement for radio and TV with Bell Media that league sources confirmed could be worth up to $400 million when it expires in 2025-26.

Coupled with the $16 million the Senators will receive from the new national package that the NHL signed with Sportsnet in December, the club could get more than $40 million from broadcast revenues along next season."


http://www.ottawasun.com/2014/01/29/liv ... r-practice

Actually, the numbers seem to support Jim. $400M/12 = $33.33M (from TSN) + $16M (from Sportsnet) = almost $50M.

Well done, Jim!
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