Edmonton's capacity

Re: Edmonton's capacity

by project.legacy » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:28 pm

beaglehound wrote:
project.legacy wrote:The Eskimos and City of Edmonton IMO should have built a new stadium (without a ridiculous track) as opposed to spending over $120 million on the Commonwealth renos. 30-35k seems to be the right size nowadays for the teams out West - even in Edmonton.


You raise a valid point project.legacy and I'm sure you were meaning that the $120 million would have been put to better use had it gone towards a new stadium. I think your fan attendance makes good sense.

B.C. Place, in Vancouver completed renovations about 5 years ago. The total cost? More than...get this....more than One-half billion dollars!! Mind boggling.

But here is the kicker...

Though the stadium occasionally hosts the Grey Cup and can host around 55, 000 fans for the Grey Cup, the B.C Lions are garnering about 20, 000 a game. In their hay day during the 80s they were bringing 40, 000+ for a regular season game. Not sure why but everyone was having a great time.

If one works out the annual average attendance from the Lions inception [1954] it is around 27, 000. Anything over 30,000 would be considered a good year. Over the Lions 60+ life span the annual average attendance has not changed very much at all. No idea why but it hasn't.

When the Lions were playing at the old Empire Stadium where the seating capacity was around 32,000 the stadium was close to full capacity or it certainly had that appearance.

I have been a season's ticket holder with the Lions and the new retractable roof was "nice" and it was nice to look up and see the night sky. But here is the dumb thing...

The upper deck is closed due to poor sales. they have curtained off the upper deck so you can't see the seats and it gives the illusion of a fuller stadium. The problem is many fans who paid for premium seating [most expensive] cannot see the open roof because the curtains are in the way. A real dumb move.

I love the old stadium where the teams would slug it out in the elements: rains, sleet and yes even sometimes snow in Vancouver. Wind also played a factor. There was nothing like looking up at the full night sky, experiencing the nippy autumn night while taking in the game. There was something nostalgic about bundling up in the elements, sipping hot chocolate and eating a hot dog while watching the game.

The Lions "home" is BC Place. I'd rather be watching in an outdoor stadium with about 25 000 to 30 000 ravenous fans than in a stadium that cannot even make 1/2 capacity.

Glad someone understood what I meant. $120 million is not enough to build a new stadium (not sure why it was assumed I meant otherwise), but that $120+ million reno will give Commonwealth at best another 20 years of usage. Commonwealth is way too big for the regular season - Grey Cups are great there though. Add in another $100-$150 million on top of that $120 million and I think at the time they could have built a 35,000 seat version of Investors Group field (which was originally built for $190 million, then jumped to $210 million a year and a half "after completion", and then another $35 million loan guarantee via the Province to fix all the the current deficiencies.

As for BC, I agree, I would have much rather seen a new stadium built at the current BC place location. The reno cost the Province of British Columbia $514 million - for under $300 million at the time, they could have built a fantastic 30-35,000 outdoor stadium for the Lions and Whitecaps.

Mistakes have been made IMO, with some of the current CFL stadiums, Ottawa should have built their's to at minimum 25,000. Hamilton should have built their's in a better location, and 25-26,000. Investors Group Field in Winnipeg was built too large (Bombers have averaged around 26,000 over the last 2 decades), and in the wrong location IMO. Edmonton needed a new stadium that was built for football and even some soccer, and more importantly without a track. I hope Calgary builds a 30,000 partially covered Stadium at a new location closer to Downtown. But, this is all just my opinion of course.
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Re: Edmonton's capacity

by STM » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:34 am

It is baffling to me that a city that size can't fill that stadium.
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Re: Edmonton's capacity

by slimjim2 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:44 am

STM wrote:It is baffling to me that a city that size can't fill that stadium.


You could say the same thing about Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto
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Re: Edmonton's capacity

by PTBO Dave » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:55 am

slimjim2 wrote:
STM wrote:It is baffling to me that a city that size can't fill that stadium.


You could say the same thing about Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto


And Calgary.
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Re: Edmonton's capacity

by jamie » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:11 am

To me its logical why attendance is down.

The game day experience is poor in Vancouver, at least for me. Constant overloud pumped in music, too many interruptions, and you have to overpay for ticket, food and drink. When I go to a game now it seems most people are watching the huge screen or texting someone. A game does not feel like an "event" in any way. Certainly not worth the $100 I drop when I go.
Compared to large screen TV, good seat, watch with whom you want, food and drink of choice at 1/4 the price. Washroom just down the hallway.

If you buy TSN you are still supporting the CFL.
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Re: Edmonton's capacity

by beaglehound » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:40 am

jamie wrote:To me its logical why attendance is down.

The game day experience is poor in Vancouver, at least for me. Constant overloud pumped in music, too many interruptions, and you have to overpay for ticket, food and drink. When I go to a game now it seems most people are watching the huge screen or texting someone. A game does not feel like an "event" in any way. Certainly not worth the $100 I drop when I go.
Compared to large screen TV, good seat, watch with whom you want, food and drink of choice at 1/4 the price. Washroom just down the hallway.

If you buy TSN you are still supporting the CFL.


Man that is so true! Especially the part, " now it seems most people are watching the huge screen or texting someone."

Watching the game on the big screen at home? Yep. I was a seasons ticket holder for years. I eventually stopped a couple of years ago. I remember watching the Lions playing Montreal. During the half-time intermission I got up and came home to watch the second half. I loved it. I was in my recliner having some great snacks. No traffic to fight getting out of the parking lot.

I was getting sick and tired of being inundated with adverts; on the field, on the huge screen, over the sound system and from the guys pushing their product up and down the aisles.
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Re: Edmonton's capacity

by Grover » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:15 pm

BC Place is booked well over 200 days a year!
Brings massive amounts of $$$ from out of the city.
Part of that $500M cost was to build/rent and operate a temporary Stadium for the Lions to use for a year and a half until BC Place was reno'ed
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Re: Edmonton's capacity

by jamie » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:21 pm

I don't believe the temp stadium costs were included in the 500mil renos to BC place.

But BC place is HEAVILY used. And it is a beautiful stadium. Even has good acoustics for music which cost a lot in the renos but the number of concerts held there is pretty amazing. It's really part of the downtown core.
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Re: Edmonton's capacity

by jamie » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:26 pm

...and speaking of that temporary stadium...I probably enjoyed those games that I attended there as the most enjoyable in the last decade actually.
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Re: Edmonton's capacity

by 300Magnum » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:33 pm

jamie wrote:I don't believe the temp stadium costs were included in the 500mil renos to BC place.

But BC place is HEAVILY used. And it is a beautiful stadium. Even has good acoustics for music which cost a lot in the renos but the number of concerts held there is pretty amazing. It's really part of the downtown core.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_Field

The venue was constructed by Nussli Group in three months, cost $14.4 million and opened on June 15, 2010. The venue featured 20,500 roofed bucket seats—with the remaining 7,000 being benches—12 luxury suites, a press room, flood lighting and a FieldTurf artificial turf. The venue's record attendance are two sell-out matches: for the Lions it occurred in inaugural 2010 regular-season match against the Saskatchewan Roughriders; for the Whitecaps, it was a regular-season match against the Los Angeles Galaxy. Dismantling took place in November and December 2011 and the site is now used as a community playing field.
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Re: Edmonton's capacity

by jamie » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:43 pm

Shocking in a way that the temp stadium only cost 14-15Mil.

It was snuggled into the east side, where the PNE and horse track is, overlooking mountains with smells and sounds of the exhibition and horses in the background. It was really a fun little place actually. I'll see if I dig up a picture.
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Re: Edmonton's capacity

by brihind88 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:26 pm

I go out to Vancouver 3 x a year for Lions games.

I love the stadium and game day experience there. Much more than my own McMahon.

It started with 2 games to Empire Field. Just wanted to experience that unique historic situation.

Friend of mine recorded the 2 games for a keep sake.

Enjoyed it so much , just decided to keep doing it.

Also, I love Vancouver to visit anyway. People are so friendly there.

The only thing I do not like is the stupid kiss cam. Who cares ? That is the only thing that annoy's me.
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Re: Edmonton's capacity

by beaglehound » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:34 pm

"The only thing I do not like is the stupid kiss cam."...by brihind

I understand what you mean. As soon as they bring on that segment I put my binoculars to my eyes to look "busy". But all in all I guess it kind brings everyone a little closer together and is all done in fun.

I used to attend Lions game at the old Empire Stadium. My regret to this day is that I did not go to one game at the temp stadium just for nostalgia sake. I'd heard many negative reports during the season so did not want to take a chance. Based on your comments it sounds like I dropped the ball on that one.
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Re: Edmonton's capacity

by jamie » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:36 pm

I certainly agree that Vancouver is a great place to visit. And the game day experience is probably much better enjoyed if combined with a holiday. Its an exciting location...right out the doors of the stadium are literally hundreds of bars and resties to choose from. Water ways etc. Locals probably get spoiled.

the Lions maybe should take note and figure out a way to get more out of area folks to come.

Yeah Beagle...that temp stadium was terrific
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Re: Edmonton's capacity

by beaglehound » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:51 pm

Grover wrote:BC Place is booked well over 200 days a year!
Brings massive amounts of $$$ from out of the city.
Part of that $500M cost was to build/rent and operate a temporary Stadium for the Lions to use for a year and a half until BC Place was reno'ed


BC Place may be bringing in "massive" amounts of $$$ but it has been a losing enterprise so I have to wonder where the money is going. The taxpayers are still paying for the renovations.

Back in 2007-2008, the stadium suffered $3.955 million in losses. Under the new roof in 2012-2013, it lost $13.036 million. Another $68.3 million of red ink was expected through 2015-2016.
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