KevinRiley2

Question for those in the not one cent of taxpayer's money crowd, would your stance be the same if this was for a stadium that can accommodate a CFL team, new or existing?

No.  I admit, when it comes to the CFL, I am a hypocrite.

Besides, it is easy for me to say since most CFL teams have already benefitted from tax subsidized upgrades/stadiums.  Still...

NO MORE TAX MONEY FOR PUBLIC STADIUMS!!!

If you want a stadium, pay for it privately - feel free to kick in your own money.
* Kevin Riley = The moral conscience AND movie reviewer for cfl.ca.  :)
* When in doubt, always ask (WWKD) What Would Kevin Do?
* Forgive me for always taking the High Road.  It's the ONLY Road I know.

KevinRiley2

Quebec I broke so let's hope they say no.
Quebec has actually posted budget surpluses the last two years although it does still have a high debt.  

I think a couple of hundred million may be a wise investment for the province based on the return they would see from economic impact of a team over the long term assuming they could come up with the rest of the financing of a stadium from other sources.  The economic impact each year from just a few weekend series against the Jays, Yankees and Red Sox (about a 5 hours drive from Boston - about the same distance as Toronto) each year - could be quite significant.  

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-05/quebec-s-leitao-open-to-personal-tax-cuts-after-budget-surplus



Don't agree.
People have disposable income, if it is spent on sporting events it means it will not be spent at another event/purchase.
There is only so much a dollar will go around.
There is no correlation that I have seen that shows a sporting event and or franchise being a boom to the economy.
Ok, yes maybe  a one off such as the grey Cup with people coming in from across the country.
The hotels and restaurants, being private enterprise may see a spike but not to the citizens as a whole.
There are certain people who will say Yes to anything/everything and not worry about the tax consequences.  I take the middle ground.

If my taxes are needed for a hospital, a new MRI machine, nurses, or to feed/cloth the poor, then I will NOT complain.

If someone wants to put my tax dollars towards a new stadium or the Olympics, I will do everything in my power to fight it.  Both are a shameful waste of money.

KevinRiley2

Re : "Wow!  Kevin you are telling me that deficit and debt are different!?  Who knew?"

Obviously, based on your posts, you didn't know.

Re : "Since a city of 800,000 received nearly $200 million from the province for a new arena"

Again, how did THAT turn out?  Been to a Nordiques game lately?

Re : "Just be thankful that the feds paid for THF or the Ticats would be in dire straits right now if not outright folded.  Unlike teams out west, like the Bombers and the Riders, Hamilton had to rely on the federal taxpayer to bail them out lol."

I am thankful.  Now, from this day forward, NO more money for stadiums.

With the interest rate increases, Quebec will feel a real pinch, and I hope it kills the idea for a stadium.
Exactly, QC is no closer to an NHL team now, same thing happened in Hamilton when they built their arena thinking they were either going after the new expansion team or the Cayotes.
What a waste.
Yes.  I don't understand this recent infatuation.  15 years ago, you couldn't pay people to go to an Expo game - waiting for Patrick to say that the Expo never struggled at the gate.  

Now, people not only want a team, but they want to spend $1.5B to $2B CDN (and that is how much it will eventually cost) to build a new version of the Big O (which took a half a century to pay off)?  

No way.  There are too many people who need meds, food or health care to waste money on that garbage.

KevinRiley2

Everyone can spin stats to justify anything/everything :

"My friend says that if we build a flying saucer, we will sell seats licences and tax the concessions, and the flying saucer will pay for itself."

Then when it doesn't pay for itself, they shrug their shoulders and say, "Oh well.  It's too late now".

When will people ever learn?  

Answer : Sadly, never!

The Last Word

Re : "Wow!  Kevin you are telling me that deficit and debt are different!?  Who knew?"

Obviously, based on your posts, you didn't know.

Re : "Since a city of 800,000 received nearly $200 million from the province for a new arena"

Again, how did THAT turn out?  Been to a Nordiques game lately?

Re : "Just be thankful that the feds paid for THF or the Ticats would be in dire straits right now if not outright folded.  Unlike teams out west, like the Bombers and the Riders, Hamilton had to rely on the federal taxpayer to bail them out lol."

I am thankful.  Now, from this day forward, NO more money for stadiums.

With the interest rate increases, Quebec will feel a real pinch, and I hope it kills the idea for a stadium.
Exactly, QC is no closer to an NHL team now, same thing happened in Hamilton when they built their arena thinking they were either going after the new expansion team or the Cayotes.
What a waste.
Quebecor looks to have foisted one on the taxpayers of Quebec City and the province.  Appeal to the city's sense of nostalgia for the Nordiques to justify nearly $400 million in public subsidies to be spent on a 18,000 seat state-of-the-art arena when a $200 - $250 million 16,000 seat arena (with unfinished suites, more exposed concrete, fewer concessions, partially finished upper deck, etc.) would have sufficed.  They would have still drawn all the concerts they currently do and all the revenue that entails.  

I doubt they expected the price for entry into the most exclusive hockey club would be $500 million US when that was announced a few years ago.  With the dollar floating around .70 US at the time it would have cost Quebecor $700 million for a team - a fee that could not be justified with the ROI even with a free arena.  But of course, to keep the illusion going, there was the leader of Quebecor, standing alongside Gary Bettman for the expansion announcement of Las Vegas, trying to maintain the semblance of a working relationship between the two sides.  Reality is, Quebec City's only hope at this point is picking up some troubled southern team on the cheap hopefully with an improved Canadian dollar.

As for Montreal, no new stadium will be built without a guarantee that a team will be moving there.  Not a case of build it and hope they will come.

KevinRiley2

Re : "Wow!  Kevin you are telling me that deficit and debt are different!?  Who knew?"

Obviously, based on your posts, you didn't know.

Re : "Since a city of 800,000 received nearly $200 million from the province for a new arena"

Again, how did THAT turn out?  Been to a Nordiques game lately?

Re : "Just be thankful that the feds paid for THF or the Ticats would be in dire straits right now if not outright folded.  Unlike teams out west, like the Bombers and the Riders, Hamilton had to rely on the federal taxpayer to bail them out lol."

I am thankful.  Now, from this day forward, NO more money for stadiums.

With the interest rate increases, Quebec will feel a real pinch, and I hope it kills the idea for a stadium.
Exactly, QC is no closer to an NHL team now, same thing happened in Hamilton when they built their arena thinking they were either going after the new expansion team or the Cayotes.
What a waste.
Quebecor looks to have foisted one on the taxpayers of Quebec City and the province.  Appeal to the city's sense of nostalgia for the Nordiques to justify nearly $400 million in public subsidies to be spent on a 18,000 seat state-of-the-art arena when a $200 - $250 million 16,000 seat arena (with unfinished suites, more exposed concrete, fewer concessions, partially finished upper deck, etc.) would have sufficed.  They would have still drawn all the concerts they currently do and all the revenue that entails.  

I doubt they expected the price for entry into the most exclusive hockey club would be $500 million US when that was announced a few years ago.  With the dollar floating around .70 US at the time it would have cost Quebecor $700 million for a team - a fee that could not be justified with the ROI even with a free arena.  But of course, to keep the illusion going, there was the leader of Quebecor, standing alongside Gary Bettman for the expansion announcement of Las Vegas, trying to maintain the semblance of a working relationship between the two sides.  Reality is, Quebec City's only hope at this point is picking up some troubled southern team on the cheap hopefully with an improved Canadian dollar.

As for Montreal, no new stadium will be built without a guarantee that a team will be moving there.  Not a case of build it and hope they will come.
NO MORE TAX MONEY FOR PUBLIC STADIUMS!!!

If you want a stadium, pay for it privately - feel free to kick in your own money.

PTBO Dave

Everyone can spin stats to justify anything/everything :

"My friend says that if we build a flying saucer, we will sell seats licences and tax the concessions, and the flying saucer will pay for itself."

Then when it doesn't pay for itself, they shrug their shoulders and say, "Oh well.  It's too late now".

When will people ever learn?  

Answer : Sadly, never!
Exactly. The budgets for these kinds of things never really balance themselves, but taxpayers keep buying the promises that the proper investments in these things will make the budget for it balance itself. Hopefully, more and more people are seeing that it doesn't work that way and won't buy into such platitudes in the future.

KevinRiley2

Everyone can spin stats to justify anything/everything :

"My friend says that if we build a flying saucer, we will sell seats licences and tax the concessions, and the flying saucer will pay for itself."

Then when it doesn't pay for itself, they shrug their shoulders and say, "Oh well.  It's too late now".

When will people ever learn?  

Answer : Sadly, never!
Exactly. The budgets for these kinds of things never really balance themselves, but taxpayers keep buying the promises that the proper investments in these things will make the budget for it balance itself. Hopefully, more and more people are seeing that it doesn't work that way and won't buy into such platitudes in the future.
I believe more and more people are.  Sadly, they tend to be the silent majority.

It is the loud mouths who run political groups who scream the loudest and say, "Toronto wants an Olympics", "Toronto needs a new stadium", "Calgary needs a new arena", and all too often they get their way.

For the cost of a new stadium, an awful lot of people could get health care, and THAT should be the priority.

KevinRiley2

I don't agree with Bob McClown very often, but he is spot on when it comes to this subject.  As he says, "No public money for stadiums", and I agree.

Aerial

Have to say, I completely agree as well.  At least for pro stadiums and arenas.
I'm not allowed to comment on lousy officiating - Former Saints General Manager Jim Fink

oo DAWG oo

I don't agree with Bob McClown very often, but he is spot on when it comes to this subject.  As he says, "No public money for stadiums", and I agree.
Unless it's for a team you follow right?

Did you call for the CFL owners to pay back the gov.?

KevinRiley2

I don't agree with Bob McClown very often, but he is spot on when it comes to this subject.  As he says, "No public money for stadiums", and I agree.
Unless it's for a team you follow right?

Did you call for the CFL owners to pay back the gov.?
Re : Unless it's for a team you follow right

Exactly.

Re : Did you call for the CFL owners to pay back the gov.?

Of course not, because then, it was money well spent. ;)

raymarkca

Re : "Wow!  Kevin you are telling me that deficit and debt are different!?  Who knew?"

Obviously, based on your posts, you didn't know.

Re : "Since a city of 800,000 received nearly $200 million from the province for a new arena"

Again, how did THAT turn out?  Been to a Nordiques game lately?

Re : "Just be thankful that the feds paid for THF or the Ticats would be in dire straits right now if not outright folded.  Unlike teams out west, like the Bombers and the Riders, Hamilton had to rely on the federal taxpayer to bail them out lol."

I am thankful.  Now, from this day forward, NO more money for stadiums.

With the interest rate increases, Quebec will feel a real pinch, and I hope it kills the idea for a stadium.
Exactly, QC is no closer to an NHL team now, same thing happened in Hamilton when they built their arena thinking they were either going after the new expansion team or the Cayotes.
What a waste.
Yes.  I don't understand this recent infatuation.  15 years ago, you couldn't pay people to go to an Expo game - waiting for Patrick to say that the Expo never struggled at the gate.  

Now, people not only want a team, but they want to spend $1.5B to $2B CDN (and that is how much it will eventually cost) to build a new version of the Big O (which took a half a century to pay off)?  
Montreal is a finicky town  other than the Canadians if you do not win/compete they will not show up.  In 94' when they were the best team they would get more than 30k fans a game.  Just being competitive I guarantee they will attract more than Tampa Bay does.     The other issue with attendance was fans in that city knew the rumours about the team moving and got tired of seeing their developed stars move onto other teams.   The stadium was also never a great stadium either by location or simply quality.     No they would not lead the league in attendance or anything but with a new stadium and a competitive team they would do just fine.    How do fund that stadium is not my concern here that's up to the fans in Montreal, but if you want a team you can expect that there will be some government funding.    Obviously you do not build a stadium without a conditional franchise first aka Quebec and the hockey arena.
Life is blog, or maybe it is like a box of chocolates.  Exercise your mind as well as your body.
Warning subject matter may require thinking outside the box.
Visit
http://www.raymark.ca

Aerial

Although if the Expos do return, the ownership could take a page out of the Blue Jays playbook and see how well the Big O works for baseball with some upgrades.  There was a time when with football in the Skydome and baseball, the primary tenants the Blue Jays and their fans didn't like the aragement but now everything seems great in Toronto.  In fact I would say many see the Skydome, Rogers Centre, as an almost pure baseball stadium even with a bowl design.

So new ownership for a baseball team in Montreal could give some paltry thing about looking at a new stadium down the road to satisfy the big shots and other owners in MLB, but delay, delay, delay if the fans seem happy enough with a basically baseball-only Big O.  The Jays draw well there in Montreal for ex games so who knows.  If the Expos do return and MLB sees big crowds at games, I think they will back off pressuring the ownership for a new stadium with any sort of timeline.

But yes, agree, Montreal is about as finicky as it gets for a sports town I've heard.  You really have to wonder if the Expos return and they can't resign some stars that don't want to live in Canada and Montreal/Quebec, will the same thing happen where fans stop showing up?  Who knows.

Mightygoose

Jays heading back to Montreal to play 2 exhibition games.

http://www.tsn.ca/jays-schedule-two-montreal-preseason-games-1.869488

March 26 and 27 vs. the Cardinals.

Part of me wonder how much longer will these be a hot ticket without this thing coming closer to fruition. I think MLB is 2 years away at the earliest and that's just to ramp up pressure on T-Bay more. 
 


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