FootbalYouBet

she stayed on the ice and shooked the winners hands, that is sportsmanship.

she didn't want to wear what was to her a symbol of losing.  that has nothing to do with sportsmanship
that is just emotion.

if they would wait a day before giving out the medals, then it would be a different scenario.
No, she was warned to keep her medal on by management... but still took it off... sorry, no sympathy here.

www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/olympics/rules-trump-emotion-as-canadian-womens-hockey-player-ordered-to-wear-silver-medal/article38062105/
no need for sympathy, just understanding and compassion
Crush cream soda is oh so good.  I think I'll have another

it is not how much you love but how well you love

why be part of the solution when you can be part of the problem

beaglehound

"Would you agree that a good team improves every game on it's way to a championship ? I think you would." by Dan38

In theory that would be expected but in reality that isn't the case so no, actually I wouldn't agree.   Teams can suffer injuries to key players.     Players can fall into slumps.  A team can 'peak' at the wrong time.   How difficult the previous match was can factor in big time as well.   There are many reasons why a team does not necessarily 'improve' with each game on its way to the championship.  Case in point?  Calgary Stampeders.  Not just last year but the year before that as well.  Dominated the CFL in both seasons only to lose in the both Grey Cups against different opponents.

Another example?   Pro Tennis.  A player blows away his opponent 6-0 in the first set, only to drop the second set 1-6.  Why did he not repeat with another 6-0 set win?   It's a rhetorical question.  No response required.  

It would really be interesting to be a fly on the wall and hear what the players had to say about why they lost and what might have led to victory.  I wonder how many would point to the coach [if they could].  These teams were pretty evenly matched in my opinion with the U.S. having a slight edge.  Hungrier?  Perhaps.  Who knows.  But one mistake, like the break away the U.S. got with about 7 minutes remaining that led to the tying goal can be a game breaker.   Fear and doubt set in.  Mistakes are made.  

One thing I noticed is that instead of Canada promptly bringing the puck out of its own end some of the players tended to rag the puck as if killing a penalty.  They became magnets drawing the opposition in closer and ending up being stripped of the puck or making a terrible pass. 

beaglehound

don't judge Laroque until you have been in her shoes.  All these negative comments about her and others at the Olympics are shameful
I would have to disagree with you FootbalYouBet.  Laroque's display of 'emotions' as you call it was misplaced and untimely.  Her display made it all about her disappointment in not winning gold. This is a woman who is going to be 30 this May and knows what losing means.  She was there to play as hard as she could for team Canada so that team Canada might take top spot on the podium.  She was not there for the sole purpose of adorning her neck with a gold medal.  


Disappointed?  Sure, but so were all of the other players and they that did not display this immature behaviour.    More importantly when I look at the photo of Laroque disrespectfully just holding her silver medal I notice an interesting juxtapostion.  Note the player to Laroque's right appearing to proudly admire her silver medal. 

The Olympics are more than winning gold.  Laroque is an ambassador of Canada.  She is also a model for girls wanting to emulate her.  

is her behaviour 'understandable'.  I suppose so but nevertheless unacceptable.  And that is where any compassion ends.    Her behaviour was no more understandable than when a child receives a thoughtful gift for Christmas and disses it because she thought she was worthy of better.  In a way that is how Laroque came across.  It appeared that she felt she was worthy of a medal better than a silver.  That isn't emotion.  That is immature and self-centeredness.   She was disrespecting the Olympics by shunning the recognition she was being offered and had earned.  She was robbing the joy of the U.S. team having their well earned moment in the sun.  She was robbing the joy her own teammates were experiencing.  
That is selfish in my opinion and while compassion is a praiseworthy quality to express, in this particular situation it has to be tempered with a good thumping lest she not learn that the Olympics is not all about her winning the gold.   

For those who want to read more...

"For more than half an hour no one could make Jocelyne Larocque wear her silver medal. Not the person handing them out. Not her teammates – who knew better than to mention it. And not the American fans shouting from the stands: "Put your medal on!"
And then someone finally forced her.
After leaving the ice heartbroken, and struggling to answer post-game questions for reporters, Larocque had almost made it to the dressing room when an official from hockey's governing body pulled her aside and gave her a talking to.
Few people witnessed it, but there was Larocque, tears welling up in her eyes, holding her unwanted silver medal, being told by a man in a suit about the "legal" reasons why she can't refuse to wear it.
This was the Olympics, the official from the International Ice Hockey Federation explained. It doesn't matter how sad you are. Or how angry, or disappointed. There are rules.
Larocque nodded and stared at the floor. The IIHF official strode quickly out of the room and disappeared.
A few minutes earlier, Larocque was asked why, after the silver was hung around her neck on the ice, she couldn't bear to wear it.
"Just hard," she said. "We were going for gold."
Was the silver medal any consolation?
"I mean, yeah," she said. "Once we reflect. But now, not at the moment."
 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/olympics/rules-trump-emotion-as-canadian-womens-hockey-player-ordered-to-wear-silver-medal/article38062105/

Lyle B. Style

she stayed on the ice and shooked the winners hands, that is sportsmanship.

she didn't want to wear what was to her a symbol of losing.  that has nothing to do with sportsmanship
that is just emotion.

if they would wait a day before giving out the medals, then it would be a different scenario.
No, she was warned to keep her medal on by management... but still took it off... sorry, no sympathy here.

www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/olympics/rules-trump-emotion-as-canadian-womens-hockey-player-ordered-to-wear-silver-medal/article38062105/
no need for sympathy, just understanding and compassion
Laraque didn't mind losing. She might have been the worst or second worst player on T Canada - only Lacappe, the native girl might have been worse! If you don't want a medal - just opt off the team prior to the ceremony. That's a disgrace to Canada - even worse than any 'crimes' Rachel Homan committed.

Her statement invoked a lack of pride in coming 2nd to a clearly superior and far better coached team. That's not her fault - most of Canada's players broke down under pressure and full court duress by their American counterparts.
WAITING FOR A  MIRACLE - 28 YEARS, COUNTING!

DAN38

"Would you agree that a good team improves every game on it's way to a championship ? I think you would." by Dan38

In theory that would be expected but in reality that isn't the case so no, actually I wouldn't agree.   Teams can suffer injuries to key players.     Players can fall into slumps.  A team can 'peak' at the wrong time.   How difficult the previous match was can factor in big time as well.   There are many reasons why a team does not necessarily 'improve' with each game on its way to the championship.  Case in point?  Calgary Stampeders.  Not just last year but the year before that as well.  Dominated the CFL in both seasons only to lose in the both Grey Cups against different opponents.

Another example?   Pro Tennis.  A player blows away his opponent 6-0 in the first set, only to drop the second set 1-6.  Why did he not repeat with another 6-0 set win?   It's a rhetorical question.  No response required.  

It would really be interesting to be a fly on the wall and hear what the players had to say about why they lost and what might have led to victory.  I wonder how many would point to the coach [if they could].  These teams were pretty evenly matched in my opinion with the U.S. having a slight edge.  Hungrier?  Perhaps.  Who knows.  But one mistake, like the break away the U.S. got with about 7 minutes remaining that led to the tying goal can be a game breaker.   Fear and doubt set in.  Mistakes are made.  

One thing I noticed is that instead of Canada promptly bringing the puck out of its own end some of the players tended to rag the puck as if killing a penalty.  They became magnets drawing the opposition in closer and ending up being stripped of the puck or making a terrible pass.
   Your example;Calgary Stampeders proves my point. If they had improved each game they WOULD have won the championship. They didn't. Fingers were pointed at their HC each time. Teams that do win championships usually improve each game. They get better. If you want to call that peaking, OK.

   Why does fear and doubt set in ? Why are mistakes made ? These are things the coach needs to arrest before a game and things they need to control during a game. If you are more worried about line changes than winning the game, you probably won't win the game.

   The States is a well coached team. The result shows that. They did not give the puck away too many times. Everybody I've talked to has said the same thing. Too many giveaways. Many of the giveaways were made to accommodate the incessant line changing.
Si vis pacem... para bellum

If you think you can't when you can, you won't.
If you think you can when you can't, you just might.

DAN38

I agree with Dan, Larocque should not have taken the medal off her neck until she left the ice. I predicted that the junior kid set the precedent, and sure enough it happened again... but at least she didn't throw it into the stands. I like the fact she played hard, but show some sportsmanship. She is an adult, and you should face the possibility that you might not get the results you want... that is life, deal with it. Cry all you like, but at least show respect for the game and your teammates. If I was part of Hockey Canada she would not be invited back.
  Thanks Sambo. I knew I could count on you. You did predict the precedent. I remember.

beaglehound

Dan, my friend, you cannot have it both ways with Calgary.  They got better and better as the season progressed but couldn't finish it off.  They did that 2 years in a row.  I've not proven any point to you.  

Further, you now have changed from  "Would you agree that a good team improves every game on it's way to a championship?"  to "Teams that do win championships usually improve each game"  Well, well. ;)

Re: line changes...

Why does a coach do line changes?  To get fresh players on the ice.  To match the opposition.  To match specific players.  Perhaps there are other reasons but these I think are the main ones, from what I can tell.

Why was the Canadian team coach changing her lines so often?  I don't know.  Were her players getting tired?   Was she trying to rattle the opposition?  What she trying to neutralize the opponent?  I don't know. If you believe this was a poor coaching decision, that is fair but I will go back to what my perception was when I saw the game.  The Canadian girls just didn't seem to have that spark.  They looked like they were out of gas and holding on.  that could explain the reason for the frequent line changes They looked hesitant and unsure.   

"Why does fear and doubt set in ? Why are mistakes made ? These are things the coach needs to arrest before a game and things they need to control during a game."

I've no doubt coaches remind their players to maintain their composure and not let anxiety set in.  But it will still happen especially when there is a momentum shift.   Look at how Toronto came back.  Look at how Ottawa came back in the Grey Cup games.  There is fear and anxiety no matter what a coach says before a game. 

I don't know how familiar you are with the game of tennis but one of the most difficult times in a match is when a player is playing for match point.  No matter how many games or sets he leads by.   In fact he/she can have 3 consecutive match  points and still not be able to put the opponent away.  That is called having the jitters: self-doubt, fear of blowing it and all that stuff.  I remember playing an opponent in a match.  It was the best of 3.  He was up 6-0, 5-0 and had 3 match points to play with.  He lost the match!

Have you ever spoken in front of large crowds Dan?   I have, many times.     And no matter how many times.   I remind myself and use the little tricks of the  trade to calm my nerves.  I am encourage by colleagues not to get rattled.   It doesn't help a lot.  I walk up to the podium, take one look up and I want to run off the stage.  It only lasts a few seconds but it still happens.  And I have a lot of experience speaking in front of people.  Go figure. 

Lyle B. Style

Summation -
The Canadians were stunned by the fitness, push and strength of the americans.
Basically, the incessant American pressure broke down the planned technique and finesse of the canucks - turning their game into a semi-advanced version of road hockey!

It wasn't pretty seeing Canadian stars like Poulin & Laraque turned into fudge, slopping around the ice, barfing up puck after puck . . . .

American training and coaching were far superior - they had better speed on the lines - and they really had better puck possession than Canada - although neither team can be classified as the 1976 Winnipeg Jets (ie. Hull-Hedberg-Nilson)

If not for Szabados in regular time - Canada would have been vanquished 4-1 or 5-2 or somesuch!

The thing I heard most from Mark Lee (who gave one of the greatest broadcasts in hockey history) was every 45 seconds to 2 minutes he would declare "and Marie-Phillipe Poulin is leaving the ice, she's totally gassed!

beaglehound

"The thing I heard most from Mark Lee (who gave one of the greatest broadcasts in hockey history) was every 45 seconds to 2 minutes he would declare "and Marie-Phillipe Poulin is leaving the ice, she's totally gassed."  by Lyle

Careful Lyle, someone might think that was an excuse.  But I'm not going to mention Dan's name. ;D

beaglehound

"Laraque didn't mind losing..." by Lyle

Please explain when you say she didn't mind losing. I don 't understand.  She seemed quite bitter.

FootbalYouBet

Such nonsense.  Neither one is a disgrace and neither one committed any crime.  How easy it is to judge and be superior when one has never been in same position. I am saddened by the comments directed at and about these young ladies."

sambo42

Such nonsense.  Neither one is a disgrace and neither one committed any crime. How easy it is to judge and be superior when one has never been in same position. I am saddened by the comments directed at and about these young ladies."
I can tell you I have lost a lot over the last couple of years or so... yeah, it was tough, but somehow I have managed to muddle through life... still struggling with a few things too... I haven't told anyhone but a couple of people of what I have been going through... so something as minor as losing a hockey game, in which you still won something, should be seen as an accomplishment! Yes, in the moment is tough, but taking a medal off your neck is something people will remember... especially young girls who look up to her! It sends the wrong message.

FootbalYouBet

Such nonsense.  Neither one is a disgrace and neither one committed any crime. How easy it is to judge and be superior when one has never been in same position. I am saddened by the comments directed at and about these young ladies."
I can tell you I have lost a lot over the last couple of years or so... yeah, it was tough, but somehow I have managed to muddle through life... still struggling with a few things too... I haven't told anyhone but a couple of people of what I have been going through... so something as minor as losing a hockey game, in which you still won something, should be seen as an accomplishment! Yes, in the moment is tough, but taking a medal off your neck is something people will remember... especially young girls who look up to her! It sends the wrong message.
something as MINOR as losing a hockey game?  Maybe when you are playing a beer league game. I remember feeling somewhat emotional after losing a college intramural flag football championship game, specially because up to that point, I was used to being on the winning team thru most of my life.  Then I started playing on teams that would lose up to 64-0.  Never liked it much.

These girls have a dream to win Olympic gold.  That's better than a superbowl, or at least the closest thing these women can get to it.  They work hard for years and scrape and scratch and endure in order for the chance.  Yeah, they want the gold medal for themselves, but they also want it for their country.  I played as much sports as I could thru my life, but I never played for my country, or my city or even my city block.  These girls go thru a lot of emotion win or lose.  When they lose, they feel they have let down themselves, their family and friends. their teammates and their country.  Nothing you or I have ever done can compare to the enormity of their emotions in this situation.  Not in sport anyhow.

Being handed the silver within minutes of that can feel like a slap in the face.  We all handle our emotions differently.  I know I have always had a hard time with mine.  I don't criticize those who lose control, I admire all those who do not

Lyle B. Style

Maybe I was a bit unfair to Laraque - mainly cuz she's a Manitoban and I like my Manitoba athletes to be stellar examples to youth and the rest of the country:

Examples:

1. Jennifer Jones & Clara Hughes
2. Kaitlyn Lawes
3. Jill Officer
4. Cindy Klassen
5. Cindy-Ann Small
6. Suzy Yuen
7. Susan Auch
8. couple of other former hockey players like Jennifer Botterill, now retired.

I'm sure most countries management and coaching tell their athletes to accept their fates in the heat of the moment. .  . . . . but I suspect the Canadian management (Melody Davidson) refused to provide this instruction, fearing it would be construed as negativity from their management team.

Laraque (and her teammates) should have been instructed to wear the medal while in TV range and during the American anthem. After you're off TV, in your dressing room do what you want with you dumb medal - sell it on ebay for all I care! But show respect for the Olympic ideal during the presentations and ceremony!

everyman

We expect a lot of our women Oly athletes. A lifetime commitment, little or no money along the way, and we feel free to comment on their performance, their motivation and especially on how they look, especially the curlers..

Megyn Agosta took a years LOA from being a Van cop to train and get in shape for this one. They get $2500/mo for the Olympic year. $1500/mo for other non Oly cycles.  ( Up until this year USA women got nothing. Had to threaten a boycott)

They did us proud. Or at least I'm proud of them.

Probably a $15,000 hit for each family member who goes over to lend support.

We don't need to find blame as to why they lost a gold medal game by one puck after 7 shootouts. (Let's leave that attitude to other countries)

 


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