Iconic SR

It's such a complex problem. At the end of their life - the suicidal person who succeeds in taking their life truly believes in their heart and mind that are solving a problem and ending the pain, where in actuality all they have done (by committing suicide) - is transferred their pain to someone else. Nothing is gained or solved, rather it has only been made worse.

Suicide may possibly be the most selfish decision a person can make.
Val Kilmer thinks so too but do we know if the person depressed is thinking sanely enough to know what they are doing ?...... What I think is one of the most horrible parts of depression is the contradiction. You never can tell by the person's outward actions. We always hear " He/she seemed perfectly normal !" The shock really affects those left behind.
I believe the only way to help a suicidal person to think sanely about what they are contemplating - is to lead them to the conversation about what the results of their actions could do. Ask them the how/when/why/where of their suicidal plans. I believe this will foster some respect for the depths of the suicidal persons thoughts and feeling, and help them realize that others do understand how severe their thoughts are, maybe even just a little bit. It can begin a process of support that focuses on genuine, frank dialogue with that person - vs simply feeling sorry for someone living with this and thinking we are helpless to intervene. We aren’t. We can help more.

We also must keep in mind that the person we see at school or at work or on TV etc - is not the same person when they are all alone. We all wear a persona to some extent. The depressed person however, wears a much more and very elaborate, complex persona - possibly just to exist/survive. Anthony Bourdain and Kate Spade were incredibly successful and well loved people. Yet that wasn’t nearly enough to alter their mind storm. Who we see isn’t necessarily all that they are.


Another element in all of this is the rampant misuse, abuse, and in many cases - wrongly prescribed psych meds. These themselves carry a high risk of damaging psychiatric or physical side effects. A neurologist once told me that in order for a proper psychiatric medication recommendation to be made - the doctor should be seeing 5 or 6 consistent behaviours or symptoms of depressive illness from the patient. Otherwise the wrongly prescribed psych med will create a new chemical imbalance all on its own (thus the disclaimers about suicidal thoughts being a side effect of many, many meds). In reality, a 16 yr old girl or boy who is upset because of their boyfriend or girlfriend situation is being handed random psych meds prescriptions by GPS everywhere, all because our society loves taking a happy pill. We are losing our ability to deal with and face genuine, true emotion and just work thru it. Instead, we think something is wrong with us or others if we/they feel down or sad. These are normal emotions, and not necessarily permanent for the vast majority of society. Psych meds are grossly over prescribed and in my opinion - is fueling the increased levels of suicide in society today and taking many lives in some cases of people who don’t have any mental illness at all.

The brain is a very sensitive and complex organism, which we should be fighting to protect - vs trying to alter with chemicals without due diligence prior.

DAN38

   I agree Iconic and I keep reading and hearing the words you also wrote ' just work through it.' That's what all of us do on a daily basis. Maybe some have a harder time, I don't know, I am not judging but if they do and medicine can help, once you find the proper meds, they will help. Many people are still here due to the proper meds. They do work.
Si vis pacem... para bellum

If you think you can't when you can, you won't.
If you think you can when you can't, you just might.

TravelPat1

I agree Dan - the right meds - when really needed - do help and have saved lives.

I suspect though that much like doctors have overprescribed antibiotics over the years - making many of them useless today because the bacteria have become antibiotic resistant - we may be at a point where doctors are over prescribing anti-depression drugs as a 'quick fix' to what ails you too. Instead of letting the body (the mind being part of the body) heal itself through natural means.

And all that over subscribing of all these chemical medications - with all the side effects they can have on some people - undoubtedly the overuse of meds has a role in many of the health issues people face today.  

I'm amazed how many pills some people I know pop.  Maybe I'm lucky - but I'm 58 years old, am on no prescribed medications and usually I pass the expiry date on bottles of Aspirin or Tylenol before I get half way through a bottle - whereas some people I know seem to have to run to Shoppers Drug Mart every couple of weeks to buy another bottle of painkillers because they can 'feel a headache coming on and I'm almost out'.  

sambo42

 I watched the show a couple of times... and it seemed like he was enjoying what he was doing, too bad the demons he was dealing with got the best of him. RIP 

DAN38

I agree Dan - the right meds - when really needed - do help and have saved lives.

I suspect though that much like doctors have overprescribed antibiotics over the years - making many of them useless today because the bacteria have become antibiotic resistant - we may be at a point where doctors are over prescribing anti-depression drugs as a 'quick fix' to what ails you too. Instead of letting the body (the mind being part of the body) heal itself through natural means.

And all that over subscribing of all these chemical medications - with all the side effects they can have on some people - undoubtedly the overuse of meds has a role in many of the health issues people face today.  

I'm amazed how many pills some people I know pop.  Maybe I'm lucky - but I'm 58 years old, am on no prescribed medications and usually I pass the expiry date on bottles of Aspirin or Tylenol before I get half way through a bottle - whereas some people I know seem to have to run to Shoppers Drug Mart every couple of weeks to buy another bottle of painkillers because they can 'feel a headache coming on and I'm almost out'.  
   There quite a few pill pushers as I call some MDs. I've got one for a GP. To me throwing pills at a patient is a lazy way to doctor and we also have the pill takers so both sides are guilty of misuse...... I've always hated taking meds but in the last 10 years I have been on prescribed cholesterol pills. I'm trying to get off them but my problem is genetic. No matter what I eat, unless I eat like a rabbit, I will always have this problem. The pills help me keep the buildup of cholesterol to a minimum. I doubt I could do it on my own so this is an example of meds working properly. The side effects of the drug is much preferable than the effect if I don't take them.
  Many times the patient will have to take different meds to determine which is most suited to them and their needs.
  Sometimes not taking a pill is as bad as taking the wrong one.
 
  Also I truly believe I am alive today because my wife got me started on a daily low dose aspirin every day since my 30s.

Iconic SR

Going to a GP complaining about feeling down, and then taking whatever psychoactive drugs they prescribe without some actual pyschotherapy - is no different than walking into a house party and ingesting whatever pill or drug is being circulated that night.

High risk can lead to very negative consequences. Only difference is - the GP is highly paid legally to get us taking that pill - while the drug dealer is doing it illegally. 

DAN38

Going to a GP complaining about feeling down, and then taking whatever psychoactive drugs they prescribe without some actual pyschotherapy - is no different than walking into a house party and ingesting whatever pill or drug is being circulated that night.

High risk can lead to very negative consequences. Only difference is - the GP is highly paid legally to get us taking that pill - while the drug dealer is doing it illegally.
   Exactly and it is the fault of both the doctor and the patient, although the doctor should know better. We also have to rid ourselves of this idea that doctors are some kind of god. I question them continually. Good docs don't mind this. They are happy to explain. I also do not pray at the foot of the pedestal some of these people put themselves on. Good docs don't mind this either.




    Ah well, we just lost another person I would have loved to a pint with. RIP AB

FootbalYouBet

Going to a GP complaining about feeling down, and then taking whatever psychoactive drugs they prescribe without some actual pyschotherapy - is no different than walking into a house party and ingesting whatever pill or drug is being circulated that night.

High risk can lead to very negative consequences. Only difference is - the GP is highly paid legally to get us taking that pill - while the drug dealer is doing it illegally.
as one who is taking such prescribed medicine, I take great issue with your sentiment.
Crush cream soda is oh so good.  I think I'll have another

There are people out there who just will not be happy until they have created sentient AI.

Iconic SR

Going to a GP complaining about feeling down, and then taking whatever psychoactive drugs they prescribe without some actual pyschotherapy - is no different than walking into a house party and ingesting whatever pill or drug is being circulated that night.

High risk can lead to very negative consequences. Only difference is - the GP is highly paid legally to get us taking that pill - while the drug dealer is doing it illegally.
as one who is taking such prescribed medicine, I take great issue with your sentiment.
I didn't say people shouldn't take meds. I said due diligence needs to be done before ingesting a psychoactive drug.

Will go to my grave saying same. I know TONS of people taking psych meds and I also know  TONS of same people not getting any benefit.

Maybe the drug isn't properly matched to the patient.

FYI - I am very close with a neurologist with 40 yrs experience. When was the last time you consulted with a brain specialist (a neurologist) about what meds do to one's brain? The only 'issue' you should be pursuing (as a patient taking a prescribed psych meds) - is: Are these meds working or harming me? Doctors are business people, don't ever forget that. So many patients revere their doctor and just take whatever is prescribed. Don't be THAT guy.

This is the crux of the issue.

KevinRiley2

I never liked his show.  I could never get into it.

He had everything going for him - good looking guy (minus the bad teeth), talented, rich, famous.  But when depression grabs a hold of you, it is hard to turn it off, and it clouds your thinking.
* Kevin Riley = The moral conscience AND movie reviewer for cfl.ca.  :)
* When in doubt, always ask (WWKD) What Would Kevin Do?
* Forgive me for always taking the High Road.  It's the ONLY Road I know.

canadianfootballfan

I never liked his show.  I could never get into it.

He had everything going for him - good looking guy (minus the bad teeth), talented, rich, famous.  But when depression grabs a hold of you, it is hard to turn it off, and it clouds your thinking.
Do you typically bring up a bunch of negatives when talking about dead people?  Ever hear the expression "respect the dead"?

You show a lack of basic humanity in this post.

KevinRiley2

I never liked his show.  I could never get into it.

He had everything going for him - good looking guy (minus the bad teeth), talented, rich, famous.  But when depression grabs a hold of you, it is hard to turn it off, and it clouds your thinking.
Do you typically bring up a bunch of negatives when talking about dead people?  Ever hear the expression "respect the dead"?

You show a lack of basic humanity in this post.
LOL!!! What negative"S"?  Other than mentioning his bad teeth - which was true, how was I negative?

I always love this kind of thinking.  It's okay to bad mouth people when they are alive, when it can hurt them, but once they're dead, don't say anything.

So silly.  Again, LOL.

Iconic SR

I never liked his show.  I could never get into it.

He had everything going for him - good looking guy (minus the bad teeth), talented, rich, famous.  But when depression grabs a hold of you, it is hard to turn it off, and it clouds your thinking.
Do you typically bring up a bunch of negatives when talking about dead people?  Ever hear the expression "respect the dead"?

You show a lack of basic humanity in this post.
LOL!!! What negative"S"?  Other than mentioning his bad teeth - which was true, how was I negative?

I always love this kind of thinking.  It's okay to bad mouth people when they are alive, when it can hurt them, but once they're dead, don't say anything.

So silly.  Again, LOL.
You kinda made the news of Anthony Bourdain's death - a story about what you dislike, relative to Anthony Bourdain. (I don't like his show, he had bad teeth etc). Who does that?

Time and place, time and place. You missed it. Hint: this isn't about you. 

KevinRiley2

I never liked his show.  I could never get into it.

He had everything going for him - good looking guy (minus the bad teeth), talented, rich, famous.  But when depression grabs a hold of you, it is hard to turn it off, and it clouds your thinking.
Do you typically bring up a bunch of negatives when talking about dead people?  Ever hear the expression "respect the dead"?

You show a lack of basic humanity in this post.
LOL!!! What negative"S"?  Other than mentioning his bad teeth - which was true, how was I negative?

I always love this kind of thinking.  It's okay to bad mouth people when they are alive, when it can hurt them, but once they're dead, don't say anything.

So silly.  Again, LOL.
You kinda made the news of Anthony Bourdain's death - a story about what you dislike, relative to Anthony Bourdain. (I don't like his show, he had bad teeth etc). Who does that?

Time and place, time and place. You missed it. Hint: this isn't about you.
That is silly as well.  We are a bunch of posters, none of whom knew the man, and we were offering our perspective.  I offered my elite perspective.

Posters who don't like it can pound salt.

KevinRiley2

Going to a GP complaining about feeling down, and then taking whatever psychoactive drugs they prescribe without some actual pyschotherapy - is no different than walking into a house party and ingesting whatever pill or drug is being circulated that night.

High risk can lead to very negative consequences. Only difference is - the GP is highly paid legally to get us taking that pill - while the drug dealer is doing it illegally.
What a garbage post.
 


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