beaglehound

Quote from: "AlsPhil"
For most of my adult life I categorized people who complained about police brutality as whiners. It's disturbing to admit they have a point. Never mind in the US, in Montreal we have the same issue with mentally troubled and unarmed homeless people acting as targets.

Those officers acting out their Dirty Harry fantasies are giving law enforcement a terrible reputation. People need to speak out, good on Mr. Hawkins for doing just that.

I agree AlsPhil.  There are some cops who should never have been allowed to wear a badge let alone carry a lethal weapon.  While I think a good case can be made against the cop who killed Rice [12 year old youngster] given the way the cop handled the situation I think Hawkins should have left it at that.   Hawkins like others is convinced that it was racially motivated.  He also thinks the killing of Crawford was racially motivated. He wasn't there!   "The Real Battle of Ohio"was on the back side of his jersey.  What is the "real" battle of Ohio in his mind.  Hawkins is saying more than justice needs to be meted out to a few "dirty" cops.  I think he clarified his position in a follow-up interview quite clearly.

Yes, there are cops who appear to be acting out a Dirty Harry fantasy but the same can be said for the John Crawfords of the world acting out their Rambo fantasies like this guy in the Wal-Mart store.  At least that is how it appeared in the video.    I wonder if Hawkins saw the store video of Crawford being taken down and what all was going on before Crawford was shot.  

I don't think the police shot Crawford because he was black.  I think if he were Caucasian they would acted the same way.  

In the video it appears like a guy is brandishing a rifle and flipping it around like he is Rambo.  Is it real?  Who knows?  Is it real and loaded?  Who knows?  Are there staff and innocent bystanders in the store?  Absolutely.  Do the police know the mental state of this guy?  No.  Do the police know if this guy has any lethal weapons on him?  If it is a real gun could this guy in the Wal-Mart store suddenly go berserk and go on a killing spree and then turn the gun on himself. Yes.  Were the police able to tell if it was a real firearm?  Evidently not.  When the police repeatedly ordered the individual to immediately put the "rifle" down and to get on the ground should this have been enough to scare the individual into compliance.  Yes, in my opinion. Did the police believe they were in a life threatening situation?  In the Crawford case, I believe so.   So why did Crawford not immediately comply?  

I guess Hawkins believes it would not have mattered.  I guess he believes the police saw that the assailant was black and already made their decision.   I'm not buying it anymore than I believe that is what motivated the cop in Ferguson to do what he had to do.  
"Peace is not the absence of conflict in life but the ability to cope with it."

HfxTC

Quote from: "beaglehound"
I think the link I posted showing replicas needs no defence HfxTC as to how authentic they look.    Does calling them "toys" add a little more drama to the equation?    You can call them toys if you want.  They still look quite authentic.

Yep, BB guns were in vogue in our youth but that is hardly a defence for what we're seeing today.

"The other problem I have is with the history of the officer who shot that child."…by HfxTC

As I do which is why I said in my earlier post I hope justice will in fact be served.  I think the video of the 12 year old kid being cut down speak volumes.  Personally I think the cop should be indicted in that particular case. I find it puzzling why the patrol car did not drive along the road adjacent to where the kid was walking about and why the cops did not use their vehicle as a shield so they would have protection, especially if they thought it was a real gun.  It was a tragic waste of a young human life.  

"Anyone can see there is a problem in many locations in the US with out of control police officers and departments. Canada less so but who knows what the future holds. I personally don't think it is a racial issue in most cases justplain brutal stupidity. Most officers and the ones who I have as friends are amazing people but the bad ones need to meet justice like any other citizen."…. by HfxTC

Agreed.  :thup:

By the way HfxTC, I'm sure you do not find my comments so humorous that they merit "LOL" and "LMAO".  Or maybe in your mind they are.
But really....  Let's have a  discussion on a subject that we are probably more in agreement on than not rather than all this posturing. It really isn't necessary to use the *lol* and *lmao*.  If you don't agree with some of my comments  fair enough, but you don't need to punctuate them with such nonsense.  You're not one of those politician types are you? They do a lot of that.   :roll:

As I said I laughed at your use of the term "Replica". I think that is a Buzz word thrown around by anti-gun activists. Its a toy gun...
Everything I write is just an opinion formed from various sources. Some more reliable than others, it is expressed as a composite of facts, innuendos, emotions, personal experiences and complete fabulation into a gumbo for entertainment purposes alone.

beaglehound

"As I said I laughed at your use of the term "Replica". I think that is a Buzz word thrown around by anti-gun activists. Its a toy gun…" by HfxTC

The issue in my opinion is that regardless of whether we use the term replica gun or toy gun, if either makes it difficult for a cop to distinguish them from the real mccoy in a situation that is perceived as life threatening it is time for society to take a few steps back and re-evaluated what we are doing.

HfxTC

Quote from: "beaglehound"
"As I said I laughed at your use of the term "Replica". I think that is a Buzz word thrown around by anti-gun activists. Its a toy gun…" by HfxTC

The issue in my opinion is that regardless of whether we use the term replica gun or toy gun, if either makes it difficult for a cop to distinguish them from the real mccoy in a situation that is perceived as life threatening it is time for society to take a few steps back and re-evaluated what we are doing.

I think we should outlaw cars and BBQ's. They are dangerous.

Quote
A bankrupt businessman has driven a car containing gas cylinders into the headquarters of Spain’s ruling People’s Party (PP), which he blames for his misfortune.

What do you think ?

GHT120

Quote from: "HfxTC"
...As I said I laughed at your use of the term "Replica". I think that is a Buzz word thrown around by anti-gun activists. Its a toy gun…

replica: a very good or exact copy of something http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/replica
toy: an object for children to play with http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/toy_1

A replica could be a toy (albeit an expensive one), but I would venture to say that most toys are not replicas.
That said, I agree it can be difficult for police to tell the difference in some cases.

Quote from: "HfxTC"
I think we should outlaw cars and BBQ's. They are dangerous.

Quote
A bankrupt businessman has driven a car containing gas cylinders into the headquarters of Spain’s ruling People’s Party (PP), which he blames for his misfortune.

What do you think ?

Reductio ad absurdum
Let's  not confuse FACTS with OPINIONS

beaglehound

Thank you GHT120.  If I spoke Latin I could say you took the words right out of my mouth.  :thup:

As long as it is becoming more and more difficult for cops to differentiate between real and fake then my suggestion to anyone waiving a fake gun around is they had better drop it immediately and assume the position face down on the ground.  In other words, immediately comply with the cop's directives, especially if he has you between the cross hairs.  It just might save the guy's life.  Better still, stay away from toy [replica] guns altogether.

HfxTC

Quote from: "GHT120"
Quote from: "HfxTC"
...As I said I laughed at your use of the term "Replica". I think that is a Buzz word thrown around by anti-gun activists. Its a toy gun…

replica: a very good or exact copy of something http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/replica
toy: an object for children to play with http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/toy_1

A replica could be a toy (albeit an expensive one), but I would venture to say that most toys are not replicas.
That said, I agree it can be difficult for police to tell the difference in some cases.

Quote from: "HfxTC"
I think we should outlaw cars and BBQ's. They are dangerous.

Quote
A bankrupt businessman has driven a car containing gas cylinders into the headquarters of Spain’s ruling People’s Party (PP), which he blames for his misfortune.

What do you think ?

Reductio ad absurdum


You are one of those that thinks we can fix everything by taking rights away from law abiding people and legislating the stupid out of people. Let's sell tobacco and alcohol, lets operate state run casinos but let's outlaw toy guns because some people are irresponsible. Society has become ridiculous. Let's put a law that you can't smoke in a car if there is a minor. lets write a law that people can't wear scented products. Now I have to put my trash out in clear plastic bags because the government wants to make sure people are composting. So they will look for chicken and steak bones in my garbage....

So basically let's outlaw toy guns while 8 and 9 year olds accompanied by parents can go to a gun range and fire the real thing.

beaglehound

"You are one of those that thinks we can fix everything by taking rights away from law abiding people and legislating the stupid out of people."…by HfxTC

That same argument was used by the whiners who complained that airport screening was too invasive and too strict.   So much for that reasoning. :roll:  
Try walking into a busy mall during the Christmas season with a replica firearm or toy gun as you prefer to call it before this Christmas day.  I dare you to.    Be sure you dress the part.   Point it at a few people just for fun and hang around for a couple of minutes to see what happens.  
When the police descend on the mall and order you to drop your "weapon" do not comply.  I say again, do not comply!   Wait until they've ordered  you 3 times but still do not comply.  Instead, point it at one of the cops and see what happens.  Just don't blame the cops when you are cut down.

ThePiggyman

I would bring this to another topic, guys. Let's keep the discussion about football.  :P
It\'s all in good spirit. If you\'re not having fun, you\'re not getting the point.

beaglehound

Quote from: "ThePiggyman"
I would bring this to another topic, guys. Let's keep the discussion about football.  :P

You're right Piggyman.  My apologies to the forum and to Madjack in particular, creator of "Where are they now".  I'm sure this was not his intent.  I see now looking back on p.4 where I got sidetracked.   As far as I'm concerned the off topic "discussion" is now closed.

idealsheldon

Well we can go full circle and maybe get ex-Alouette and current OPP officer Kelly Wiltshire`s opinion on the subject.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/P ... story.html
I`m not always right, I just think I am.

HfxTC

Quote from: "beaglehound"
"You are one of those that thinks we can fix everything by taking rights away from law abiding people and legislating the stupid out of people."…by HfxTC

That same argument was used by the whiners who complained that airport screening was too invasive and too strict.   So much for that reasoning. :roll:  
Try walking into a busy mall during the Christmas season with a replica firearm or toy gun as you prefer to call it before this Christmas day.  I dare you to.    Be sure you dress the part.   Point it at a few people just for fun and hang around for a couple of minutes to see what happens.  
When the police descend on the mall and order you to drop your "weapon" do not comply.  I say again, do not comply!   Wait until they've ordered  you 3 times but still do not comply.  Instead, point it at one of the cops and see what happens.  Just don't blame the cops when you are cut down.

Ok Tammy. Don't forget to outlaw Bananas and paper bags.

beaglehound

Madjack,

I would like to know what Don Moorehead [Lions '71-'75] is up to these days.  And Jerry Tagge [ Lions '77-'79]. Also Paul Brothers ['68-'71]

Brothers was dismal.  Jerry Tagge in his debut season [1977] roared off to a 10-2 record.  The team was dubbed the Cardiac Kids because 4 of those games were won in the last minute.  Can't remember much about Moorehead.

GHT120

Quote from: "HfxTC"
You are one of those that thinks we can fix everything by taking rights away from law abiding people and legislating the stupid out of people ...

PLEASE show me where what I wrote says that.

HfxTC

Quote from: "GHT120"
Quote from: "HfxTC"
You are one of those that thinks we can fix everything by taking rights away from law abiding people and legislating the stupid out of people ...

PLEASE show me where what I wrote says that.

Was a general comment not aimed specifically at you G, no offense was meant, just frustrated. Today politicians play the game by just adding legislation to get browni points. Then the cops are the ones who go out and have to enforce this ridiculous overeach. That's how you end up with a mob of them wrestling with a guy and killing him for selling single cigarettes for a quarter. Or in court on a weekday evening because he gave a loser a ticket for smoking in her car with the windows wide open going down the highway to protect the 10 year old sitting in the backs seat. Or my niece doing overtime at the airport this weekend making 93.00 an hour to xray and pat down grannies and students going home for xmas giving them grief because they put a travel size tube of toothpaste in their luggage.

More people are going to die during the holidays chocking on their food than will EVER from explosive toothpaste.

The clear garbage bags wasn't a joke. Garbage men will now be inspecting garbage bags looking for organic/compost waste in Halifax. When they don't like the content of our garbage they will put a colour coded sticker on our bag with a 1-800 number so we can call and ask how we are to dispose of the item in the bag. Who pays for this crazyness .... The taxpayer. I have to get gouged for the bags made specificall for us. I pay for the stickers, the extra hours for the garbage collectors, the nutbar at the other end of the 1800 call and my time transforming the garbage. Can't burn the leaves, can't put them out to the garbage, no I have to spend hours making muck. So these politicians are silent on Japan isn't irradiating the Pacific Ocean and the West coast (50 to 400 times the safe level that was doubled already of radioactive particulates) in places in BC. No they are busy creating a colour coded terror alert on my chicken bones.

I was at the local police HQ yesterday there were two cops there to do  a combined 9 hours of paperwork because someone saw someone holding a BB gun through their neighbor's window ! Mass hysteria and people not minding their own business.

Don't forget to chew your food during the holidays ! You have more chance being killed by a pit in fruit cake than by a toy gun. Merry Xmas and Peace on Earth !

CRAZY !
 


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