disciplineandpunish

Quote from: "idealsheldon"
Our former slotback and Trestman favorite Andrew Hawkins makes some news:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/f ... e22115506/

Good for Hawk. Nice to see pro athletes stepping up and speaking out on issues that absolutely need to be addressed.

Also, eff the police.
"I coach good players a lot better than I coach bad players." -Mark Nelson

beaglehound

Quote from: "disciplineandpunish"
Quote from: "idealsheldon"
Our former slotback and Trestman favorite Andrew Hawkins makes some news:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/f ... e22115506/

Good for Hawk. Nice to see pro athletes stepping up and speaking out on issues that absolutely need to be addressed.

Also, eff the police.

Yes, no doubt about it.  There are some issues that must be addressed.   Two of these tragedies had one thing in common that is very troubling.  Both of the deceased were brandishing fake replicas.  I'm not here to defend law enforcement but it has to be very difficult distinguishing between a real gun a fake.  These fake guns even close up look like the real mccoy.  I would begin by banning the manufacturing of these replicas and getting parents to make sure their kids didn't have them.  I would also ban BB guns and pellet guns.    It is difficult enough assessing a situation in a split second let alone having enough time.  

"eff the police"??  I don't think so.
"Peace is not the absence of conflict in life but the ability to cope with it."

ploen_truth

Quote from: "beaglehound"
Quote from: "disciplineandpunish"
Also, eff the police.

Yes, no doubt about it.  There are some issues that must be addressed.   Two of these tragedies had one thing in common that is very troubling.  Both of the deceased were brandishing fake replicas.  I'm not here to defend law enforcement but it has to be very difficult distinguishing between a real gun a fake.  These fake guns even close up look like the real mccoy.  I would begin by banning the manufacturing of these replicas and getting parents to make sure their kids didn't have them.  I would also ban BB guns and pellet guns.    It is difficult enough assessing a situation in a split second let alone having enough time.  

"eff the police"??  I don't think so.

If you google "Discipline and Punish" to see the original source of his username, it will give you a better understanding of where he's coming from.

You won't necessarily like it any better, however; I'm not a Foucault fan myself.

HfxTC

Quote from: "beaglehound"
Quote from: "disciplineandpunish"
Quote from: "idealsheldon"
Our former slotback and Trestman favorite Andrew Hawkins makes some news:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/f ... e22115506/

Good for Hawk. Nice to see pro athletes stepping up and speaking out on issues that absolutely need to be addressed.

Also, eff the police.

Yes, no doubt about it.  There are some issues that must be addressed.   Two of these tragedies had one thing in common that is very troubling.  Both of the deceased were brandishing fake replicas.  I'm not here to defend law enforcement but it has to be very difficult distinguishing between a real gun a fake.  These fake guns even close up look like the real mccoy.  I would begin by banning the manufacturing of these replicas and getting parents to make sure their kids didn't have them.  I would also ban BB guns and pellet guns.    It is difficult enough assessing a situation in a split second let alone having enough time.  

"eff the police"??  I don't think so.

Replicas LOL ! BB guns both with fluorescent orange tips, one still with the packaging attached to it. ok....
Everything I write is just an opinion formed from various sources. Some more reliable than others, it is expressed as a composite of facts, innuendos, emotions, personal experiences and complete fabulation into a gumbo for entertainment purposes alone.

beaglehound

"Replicas LOL ! BB guns both with fluorescent orange tips, one still with the packaging attached to it. ok…."

In the case of the 12 year boy with the replica hand pistol the  fluorescent orange tip had been removed.  Were you not aware of that HfxTC?  I guess not.

In the case of the 22 year old being shot in the Wal-Mart store the video  the video shows what the police would have seen.  Regardless, I gather you are suggesting that the police ought to have known from their vantage point that it was not the real thing.  How?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/ ... mart-video

I'm not here to defend either situation only to raise the point that replicas can look so real that banks have been successfully held up with them.  It makes it just that much more difficult for the cops to assess the gravity of the situation.  if banning the making of such "toys" will help to save lives and make a cop's job less difficult I'm all for it.

If replicas are so "harmless" try boarding a plane with one and then waving it about in the cabin.  If you are still alive, come back and tell us how things went for you.  :wink:

idealsheldon

Not wading into this particular issue, but my issue is with celebrities, whether they be Andrew Hawkins or Barbra Streisand, having access to a soap box on social or political issues. Their opinions are not any more valid than yours or mine, and there are experts on these issues whose voices will never be heard because they can`t catch a football or reach a high note.
I`m not always right, I just think I am.

beaglehound

Quote from: "ploen_truth"
Quote from: "beaglehound"
Quote from: "disciplineandpunish"
Also, eff the police.

Yes, no doubt about it.  There are some issues that must be addressed.   Two of these tragedies had one thing in common that is very troubling.  Both of the deceased were brandishing fake replicas.  I'm not here to defend law enforcement but it has to be very difficult distinguishing between a real gun a fake.  These fake guns even close up look like the real mccoy.  I would begin by banning the manufacturing of these replicas and getting parents to make sure their kids didn't have them.  I would also ban BB guns and pellet guns.    It is difficult enough assessing a situation in a split second let alone having enough time.  

"eff the police"??  I don't think so.

If you google "Discipline and Punish" to see the original source of his username, it will give you a better understanding of where he's coming from.

You won't necessarily like it any better, however; I'm not a Foucault fan myself.

Interesting ploen_truth assuming that is what inspired D&P to come up with that username.  I really don't wish to speculate that that is " where he's coming from".  I just don't see the rationale behind saying "eff the police". That is pretty strong.  

As far as the 12 year boy being cut down I have some serious issues with how that went down solely based on the video clip that was released and in that particular case I do hope justice will be served but I'm certainly not going to paint all law enforcement with the same brush. That would be a great injustice.  

The 22 year old being cut down?  The store video says a lot about how it went down.

beaglehound

Quote from: "idealsheldon"
Not wading into this particular issue, but my issue is with celebrities, whether they be Andrew Hawkins or Barbra Streisand, having access to a soap box on social or political issues. Their opinions are not any more valid than yours or mine, and there are experts on these issues whose voices will never be heard because they can`t catch a football or reach a high note.


That is actually a very good point you raise idealsheldon.

AlsPhil

Replicas may look real, seriously?

So if the police mistake something I may be holding in my hand as a weapon, it's OK for them to shoot to kill? Regardless of perceived intent, whether or not I'm acting suspicious, in any circumstance, without using the least bit of common sense, without inquiring, with no consideration for my life, or the possibility that they might be mistaken, they shoot? Hey, it looks real, so time for target practice?

Makes no sense to me

beaglehound

Quote from: "AlsPhil"
Replicas may look real, seriously?

So if the police mistake something I may be holding in my hand as a weapon, it's OK for them to shoot to kill? Regardless of perceived intent, whether or not I'm acting suspicious, in any circumstance, without using the least bit of common sense, without inquiring, with no consideration for my life, or the possibility that they might be mistaken, they shoot? Hey, it looks real, so time for target practice?

Makes no sense to me

Cop sees a guy brandishing what appears like an assault firearm or pistol. Cop commands the individual to immediately drop his weapon and get down on the ground.  Cop says it repeatedly.  The guy does not comply but instead holds the weapon up and points it at the cop.   Cop shoots the guy.  Ooops.  I thought it was a real gun.  I should have asked first.  I should have asked why the guy did not comply and drop the gun immediately.  I should have…I should have…. I should have….

Now let's look at scenario two….

Cop sees a guy brandishing what appears like an assault firearm or pistol. Cop commands the individual to drop his weapon and get down on the ground.  Cop says it repeatedly.  The guy does not comply but instead holds the weapon up and points it at the cop.   Guy starts coming closer.  Cop wants to "talk about it".  He wants to ask the guy if it is a real gun or a replica.  He wants to see the gun up real close and even touch it... to "make sure he's not making a mistake" before unloading 6 rounds into the guy.
Ooops….out of time.  The guy open fires on the cop hitting him in the face and blowing half his head off.  The guy, then systematically cuts down men, women and even children who are fleeing for their lives.  The guy then turns the gun on himself…… This is CNN for the latest news but first breaking news out of…...

Tell me these don't look real…

http://www.armory.net/replica-guns/modern-pistols

idealsheldon

HfxTC

Quote from: "beaglehound"
"Replicas LOL ! BB guns both with fluorescent orange tips, one still with the packaging attached to it. ok…."

In the case of the 12 year boy with the replica hand pistol the  fluorescent orange tip had been removed.  Were you not aware of that HfxTC?  I guess not.

In the case of the 22 year old being shot in the Wal-Mart store the video  the video shows what the police would have seen.  Regardless, I gather you are suggesting that the police ought to have known from their vantage point that it was not the real thing.  How?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/ ... mart-video

I'm not here to defend either situation only to raise the point that replicas can look so real that banks have been successfully held up with them.  It makes it just that much more difficult for the cops to assess the gravity of the situation.  if banning the making of such "toys" will help to save lives and make a cop's job less difficult I'm all for it.

If replicas are so "harmless" try boarding a plane with one and then waving it about in the cabin.  If you are still alive, come back and tell us how things went for you.  :wink:

Yeah because an adult holding a toy gun on a plane is equivalent in your mind to a 12 year old in the park right LMAO !
I just object with you calling it a Replica. To me and most people it is a toy gun.
I have never and would have never bought a toy gun other than a super soaker for my kids but I had a number of BB guns when I was a kid and millions of other kids had them and police officers didn't shoot kids back then.

I guess the give away is that a 12 year old holding a BB gun which is much smaller than a riffle. The other problem I have is with the history of the officer who shot that child.

Anyone can see there is a problem in many locations in the US with out of control police officers and departments. Canada less so but who knows what the future holds. I personally don't think it is a racial issue in most cases justplain brutal stupidity. Most officers and the ones who I have as friends are amazing people but the bad ones need to meet justice like any other citizen.

beaglehound

I think the link I posted showing replicas needs no defence HfxTC as to how authentic they look.    Does calling them "toys" add a little more drama to the equation?    You can call them toys if you want.  They still look quite authentic.

Yep, BB guns were in vogue in our youth but that is hardly a defence for what we're seeing today.

"The other problem I have is with the history of the officer who shot that child."…by HfxTC

As I do which is why I said in my earlier post I hope justice will in fact be served.  I think the video of the 12 year old kid being cut down speak volumes.  Personally I think the cop should be indicted in that particular case. I find it puzzling why the patrol car did not drive along the road adjacent to where the kid was walking about and why the cops did not use their vehicle as a shield so they would have protection, especially if they thought it was a real gun.  It was a tragic waste of a young human life.  

"Anyone can see there is a problem in many locations in the US with out of control police officers and departments. Canada less so but who knows what the future holds. I personally don't think it is a racial issue in most cases justplain brutal stupidity. Most officers and the ones who I have as friends are amazing people but the bad ones need to meet justice like any other citizen."…. by HfxTC

Agreed.  :thup:

By the way HfxTC, I'm sure you do not find my comments so humorous that they merit "LOL" and "LMAO".  Or maybe in your mind they are.
But really....  Let's have a  discussion on a subject that we are probably more in agreement on than not rather than all this posturing. It really isn't necessary to use the *lol* and *lmao*.  If you don't agree with some of my comments  fair enough, but you don't need to punctuate them with such nonsense.  You're not one of those politician types are you? They do a lot of that.   :roll:

AlsPhil

For most of my adult life I categorized people who complained about police brutality as whiners. It's disturbing to admit they have a point. Never mind in the US, in Montreal we have the same issue with mentally troubled and unarmed homeless people acting as targets.

Those officers acting out their Dirty Harry fantasies are giving law enforcement a terrible reputation. People need to speak out, good on Mr. Hawkins for doing just that.

LeStaf

Je ne connais pas d'ancien Alouette qui soit devenu policier.
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