KevinRiley2

Quote from: "EastVanMark"
Quote from: "KevinRiley2"
The CFL went from a League where, in the mid 1990's, they were bankrupt, to 2017, where 6 of the 9 teams made money and only the Argos lost a substantial amount due to a huge marketing campaign - and the Argos' owner got a 3 year extension on their CFL TV contract to more than cover those costs.

They mention a decline in attendance but, 15 years ago, teams use to give away tickets - you could get a Ticat ticket for $2, at Tim Hortons, if you bought a coffee.  In 2017, the tickets are downright expensive.

If the League is in such bad shape, how come we can't get owners to leave - God knows, Braley is hanging on for dear life.  The owners in Montreal won't even consider selling.

Bad news sells and maybe, just maybe, things aren't bad in CFL land.  Why not an article on how far the League has come?  

In 20 years, the CFL will still be here and miles ahead of where it is now.

In 2017, 8 of 9 are making money.
Hope you're right.

If the Als were to cut costs, instead of having a bunch of big salaries on their board, they would make money.

The Lions lost ~$500,000 last year.  Hopefully, this year will be better.

The Argos would need a miracle.
* Kevin Riley = The moral conscience AND movie reviewer for cfl.ca.  :)
* When in doubt, always ask (WWKD) What Would Kevin Do?
* Forgive me for always taking the High Road.  It's the ONLY Road I know.

EastVanMark

Quote from: "KevinRiley2"
Quote from: "EastVanMark"
Quote from: "KevinRiley2"
The CFL went from a League where, in the mid 1990's, they were bankrupt, to 2017, where 6 of the 9 teams made money and only the Argos lost a substantial amount due to a huge marketing campaign - and the Argos' owner got a 3 year extension on their CFL TV contract to more than cover those costs.

They mention a decline in attendance but, 15 years ago, teams use to give away tickets - you could get a Ticat ticket for $2, at Tim Hortons, if you bought a coffee.  In 2017, the tickets are downright expensive.

If the League is in such bad shape, how come we can't get owners to leave - God knows, Braley is hanging on for dear life.  The owners in Montreal won't even consider selling.

Bad news sells and maybe, just maybe, things aren't bad in CFL land.  Why not an article on how far the League has come?  

In 20 years, the CFL will still be here and miles ahead of where it is now.

In 2017, 8 of 9 are making money.
Hope you're right.

If the Als were to cut costs, instead of having a bunch of big salaries on their board, they would make money.

The Lions lost ~$500,000 last year.  Hopefully, this year will be better.

The Argos would need a miracle.

Yes, the Als would make even ore money if they didn't pay large salaries to daddy's kids to drive profits down.

The Lions just didn't make the 7 digit profits they used to a few seasons ago, but i highly doubt they actually lost any money.

The Argos on the other hand...yikes

KevinRiley2

Quote from: "EastVanMark"
Yes, the Als would make even ore money if they didn't pay large salaries to daddy's kids to drive profits down.
Not just to his sons.  From what others have said, he has some buddies, on the board, collecting a salary.

Quote from: "EastVanMark"
The Lions just didn't make the 7 digit profits they used to a few seasons ago, but i highly doubt they actually lost any money.
I read they lost a couple hundred thousand.  That included a home playoff game so it could have been worse.

Quote from: "EastVanMark"
The Argos on the other hand...yikes
Yikes, indeed.   :)

slimjim2

Quote from: "EastVanMark"

Yes, the Als would make even ore money if they didn't pay large salaries to daddy's kids to drive profits down.

The Lions just didn't make the 7 digit profits they used to a few seasons ago, but i highly doubt they actually lost any money.

The Argos on the other hand...yikes

You have no idea what or if Wettenhall's sons are making any money from being on the board.
He was talking about losing millions last season,  attendance down from 23k to 19k and season tickets down to 11k

Quote
it was once common knowledge the team was losing at least $1 million annually, it wouldn’t be shocking to believe that deficit has now doubled or even tripled.

Quote
“Nobody has bowled me over with an offer. I don’t think anybody will. We’re losing quite a bit of money.”

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/footb ... nhall-says

You doubt that the Lions lost any money???  
But their attendance dropped to 19k last season?   how did they make up that loss?      Most CFL teams are bringing in an average of $80 per ticket (that includes the club seats, field level private suites etc)  If their attendance is down 4k   that is $3 MILLION in ticket sales alone and then there are the concession sales, merchandise sales etc that can bring in another million from 4k fans.
A drop in attendance of 3k or 4k is the equivalent of the TV revenue.

Montreal and BC are a concern but could be fixed.    But it's a big concern in BC if you come off a 12 win season and host a playoff game and the attendance is only 19k.   Then coming off a 12 win season and the home opener only attracts 19k?   that's a major concern and not a good sign for a potential buyer.
The Als had a terrible season so you could excuse the drop in attendance,  they were 3k below capacity for their home opener
 Toronto is hopeless and who knows how long the owners will hand on to the Argos.

Mr. Pike

Oh dear !   Numbers aren't too good .                              

http://3downnation.com/2017/06/29/cfl-t ... -week-one/

Neely2005

Quote from: "KevinRiley2"
While tonight's game was great, it's in tough against a weak NHL draft and the Jays - who lost.  Add the fact that Ottawa does not draw well and I am not getting my hopes up.

Why is tomorrow's Eastern game on at 4???

Saturday night is empty and the Argos/Ticats could have a nice TV audience at 7.

The Argonauts conducted a survey of Season Ticket holders and 4PM on Saturday & Sunday were the most popular times for games.

It also allows for 4 hours of Tailgating before kickoff.
"ALL-TIME RECORDS

Grey Cup Wins:

16- Toronto Argonauts
14- Edmonton Eskimos
10- Winnipeg Blue Bombers
8- Hamilton Tiger-Cats
7- Ottawa Rough Riders
7- Montreal Alouettes
7- Calgary Stampeders
6- B.C. Lions
4- Saskatchewan Roughriders"

http://www.cfl.ca/2010/12/02/by-the-num ... cup-glory/

Neely2005

Quote from: "slimjim2"
Quote from: "KevinRiley2"

Then, a few years ago, that same Damian Cox wrote how the Argos would not have a home in Toronto because they were getting kicked out of Rogers and the TFC would not allow them into BMO.

Why is there never a mea culpa?

Why is there never an article about how The Little Engine That Could (the CFL) always finding a way?

They just love to dump on us.

That was written by Cox before the TFC owners bought the Argos.    If someone else had bought the Argos that were not connected to MLSE/TFC then they would not be at BMO.   It was MLSE/TFC that funded the conversion to CFL football.
I doubt any other owner could have negotiated a deal to play at BMO and fund the conversion of the field for the CFL.

I don't know if the Post article is really "dumping"  on the CFL,  he writes about the success in Ottawa, Hamilton, Sask.
There are a few positives in the article.
But he points out that the CFL has to get a younger audience and that's where the money is for advertisers.
If they don't do something soon,  and with more young people watching sports on their smart phones and viewers cutting the cord,  the TV contract will not be worth much in 4 years time.

TFC and the Argonauts have different ownership groups and it wasn't up to either of them if the Argonauts could move into BMO Field as BMO Field is entirely owned by the City of Toronto and so is the land that it's built on.

But you already knew that didn't you Troll.

EastVanMark

Quote from: "slimjim2"
Quote from: "EastVanMark"

Yes, the Als would make even ore money if they didn't pay large salaries to daddy's kids to drive profits down.

The Lions just didn't make the 7 digit profits they used to a few seasons ago, but i highly doubt they actually lost any money.

The Argos on the other hand...yikes

You have no idea what or if Wettenhall's sons are making any money from being on the board.
He was talking about losing millions last season,  attendance down from 23k to 19k and season tickets down to 11k

Quote
it was once common knowledge the team was losing at least $1 million annually, it wouldn’t be shocking to believe that deficit has now doubled or even tripled.

Quote
“Nobody has bowled me over with an offer. I don’t think anybody will. We’re losing quite a bit of money.”

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/footb ... nhall-says

You doubt that the Lions lost any money???  
But their attendance dropped to 19k last season?   how did they make up that loss?      Most CFL teams are bringing in an average of $80 per ticket (that includes the club seats, field level private suites etc)  If their attendance is down 4k   that is $3 MILLION in ticket sales alone and then there are the concession sales, merchandise sales etc that can bring in another million from 4k fans.
A drop in attendance of 3k or 4k is the equivalent of the TV revenue.

Montreal and BC are a concern but could be fixed.    But it's a big concern in BC if you come off a 12 win season and host a playoff game and the attendance is only 19k.   Then coming off a 12 win season and the home opener only attracts 19k?   that's a major concern and not a good sign for a potential buyer.
The Als had a terrible season so you could excuse the drop in attendance,  they were 3k below capacity for their home opener
 Toronto is hopeless and who knows how long the owners will hand on to the Argos.

Yes, Im sure Wettenhall pays his son's minimum wage to work for the Als in redundant positions that could easily be eliminated. What an owner talks about or says he's losing means absolutely nothing. Owners have been crying poor for generations. They just conveniently never provide any proof of that other than just blanket statements. The idea that an American guy would be losing money on a football team in Quebec for over 20 seasons now is absurd.

As a reference, look at how long owners who were actually losing money held on to their teams. Answer: not very long. If a team was to legitimately lose money for a long stretch of time, owners would be quick to sell.

And yes attendance is down which no doubt hurts the bottom line, but the Als along with every other team in the league got a $2-2.3 million bonus from the TV deal which equals out to about an extra 5000 per game. So even if attendance is down, the team would still be making money. Secondly, the Als have BY FAR the most lucrative local broadcast deal. Larry Smith let slip years ago that it may have been as high as the rest of the league combined. .  So while of course there is no way to definitively prove that a team is making money without seeing the detailed books, enough evidence exists to suggest it does.

The lions average ticket price is not $80. Full stop. And they never get any concession money  either. So the added TV money easily covers their losses at the gate. (for now anyways). A few year ago when the Lions played at Empire Field,  a reporter asked Braley about his losses due to the drop in attendance and he shot back that they actually made more money that season than they did in the previous one. This was largely based on the increase in ticket prices (which they raised yet again the following season in the new BC Place). Couple those factors again with the injection of TV money which the owners took about 75% of, and you've built yourself quite a cushion to fall back on. So even though attendance has dropped off significantly, they started off from such a strong financial position, they can afford to ride out the revenue drop in ticket sales. Now if it drops further, maybe not so much.

Now the Argos are a different bird all together. Unlike the Als and Lions, they were losing money (lots of it) before the most recent TV deal. So even with that cash injection, they only reduced the amount they were losing, not eliminate it all together. So they Argos might only be losing $2-3 million instead of the $5 million they were losing before the TV deal. Couple that with their own drop in attendance, and you get a terrible situation.   The other 2 were profitable before the TV deal money so they had a monetary cushion that the Argos simply have never had.

KevinRiley2

Quote from: "Mr. Pike"
Oh dear !   Numbers aren't too good .                              

http://3downnation.com/2017/06/29/cfl-t ... -week-one/
Dang.  I KNEW when we didn't hear from the CFL on Tuesday, it was bad.  

The CFL finally gets great games and no one's watching.   :thdn:

PTBO Dave

Quote from: "KevinRiley2"
Quote from: "Mr. Pike"
Oh dear !   Numbers aren't too good .                              

http://3downnation.com/2017/06/29/cfl-t ... -week-one/
Dang.  I KNEW when we didn't hear from the CFL on Tuesday, it was bad.  

The CFL finally gets great games and no one's watching.   :thdn:

The big surprise to me is the Friday night numbers being so low.
Grey Cup rematch, exciting game, prime time slot . . . ? I wonder what last night's numbers will be.

On the positive side, the RDS numbers were very strong with almost 250,000 tuning in to watch in French.

Mightygoose

I guess Chris Z's weekely ratings list is gone for good?

Yeah, English numbers don't look too stellar however how much of this is due to reduction of cable/satilite users hence less TSN suncribers? Curious to see how this stacks up with other cable sporting events.

vampiresquid

Friday night had NHL draft & Jays game - both probably got higher ratings.

Thursday night had NBA draft on both TSN & Sportsnet but the CFL should have outrated it easily.

rcon

Quote from: "KevinRiley2"
Quote from: "Mr. Pike"
Oh dear !   Numbers aren't too good .                              

http://3downnation.com/2017/06/29/cfl-t ... -week-one/
Dang.  I KNEW when we didn't hear from the CFL on Tuesday, it was bad.  

The CFL finally gets great games and no one's watching.   :thdn:

Still 10x more than MLS games.

Argofan_1000

Paulo Senra from the CFL office commented on the 3down article. He asked why they didn't publish the following

55% increase on RDS for opening weekend and 91% increase in the 18-49 year olds on RDS for opening weekend.

3downnation missed this and twisted the truth to suit them. I have to think sometimes that 3down is anti CFL with some of the things they write

Aerial

Quote
rcon wrote:
Still 10x more than MLS games.

Not sure how accurate you are with that but your overall thought here is accurate I would say.  :wink:

Let's face it, the Blue Jays are the cool thing now for bars and events at people's houses to watch and the younger crowd, I get that, Blue Jays are hot stuff.  Good for them and Rogers.  But that doesn't mean it's the end of the CFL on television, at all.  MLB still only has one team in Canada and the MLS still generally doesn't have the numbers of most CFL games in Canada.

I personally find baseball boring compared with the CFL and I think many of us do.  But I'll take a Blue Jays game over a soccer game, that's for sure.  I still can't watch soccer on TV for the life of me.  Believe me, I've tried but it's just not happening.
I'm not allowed to comment on lousy officiating - Former Saints General Manager Jim Fink
 


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