GC Bound

As hard as I try at this point I just can't see this season being any/much different then 2016.
Yes I know there's all this great talent/has beens maybe, on the 2017 Edition of the Riders but after watching how Jones is/has assembled all these players and from both Pre-Season Season games (neither wins) I am finding it a hard sell.
My prediction for the Montreal game is a loss. We lose by the same margin BC walked us by and so begins this second year of building and loses!
I am and always am a Riders Fan but I find it extremely hard to understand how you build a sustainable Franchise with yesterdays odds and ends discarded by other teams.
Yes there have been some really excellent pick ups but I still don't see a solid base to build on and WIN GAMES>>
Just an old guys opinion but a rabid Rider Fan :cowboy:

depopulationINC

sweet.  Not a snap taken and the season is a writeoff

who are these "has beens?"

Johnson is some vet experience and a pretty good move because of the 3 injuries sustained at the end of camp to DBs,  Guess it wouldn't be required if they had been able to somehow plan for Cox getting into trouble....and before people knock even bringing in players with troubled pasts they better start doing some research on players from around the league.

As of last season Glenn was putting up the same stats he always has though I would agree he does not have the same range he once did.

Dyakowski is a tough move to argue with


As far as the preseason games go....

the A squad for the Riders dominated the Bombers.  The B squad for the Riders bested the Bombers.  The C squad for the Bombers crushed the C squad for the Riders...right on...their player that didn't make the team beat the Rider players that didn't make the team.  Butler was the target in the Bomber comeback...he is no longer there.

BC...hey...they are IMO the best team this season...I said months ago that I felt BC was #1 and Calgary #2.  BC went into this game a and played it like it was week 1...Wally was very open about that.  Sask were cycling players every series.  It was tuning vs evaluating...2 entirely different approaches and a big loss should not have been unexpected.  The level of blowout was more than I would have thought...penalties were a massive part of that.  A massive part of the players that struggled are gone...the field side secondary is the one spot that they really are not....and that is a big concern.  
Sask played 70 players in that game vs around 50 for BC.  Wally has been the GM for 1.5 decades....his roster does not fluctuate at that point like the Riders so they get that 2nd game to focus on normal play instead of auditioning...hopefully the Riders can have stable management and be doing the same thing in year 4 or 5....but they are in year 2 of what was a really needed rebuild that had SFA for CanCon and mainly shakey import depth outside of 7-8 players.

Don't get me wrong...I am not saying there are not concerns...but far too early to write off a season.  

The big concern was the lack of run stopping...not going to lie...this is going to be a concern at times with this team.  It is going to let off the odd huge run...it is simply a downside of the scheme and IMO they lack the right Safety to ease that....hopefully that improves but the safeties are "ok."  When the Riders were shutting down the Bombers run game they had their #1s in there (and when I say #1s that does not even include SamE) but when they were run over it was the backups...Williams is sill there and IMO he is a concern.  

The secondary...
Butler was torched...he is gone.
Gatewood was the other one torched...he is gone.
Adams was hit and miss...he is gone

Starting field side and moving over...
- Field side is the concern...there are a couple guys not on the roster that will likely be back, but I though Lyles showed some promise but it will take time.  Johnson likely plays boundary....his best days are behind him IMO but his vet experience should be a good add.
- SAM...I assume will be Moncrief.  I think there is a special player there built for the CFL.  I would actually like to see him play safety but it would mean moving Edem up to SAM ow WIL.  I think Edem could do WIL, not sure on SAM.  Moncrief, IMO, is going to turn heads.  He is a player to watch.  Concern at SAM is if they play Williams there...IMO he was terrible and BC ate him up....you especially saw in in crossing patterns, but that is not on hi alone...part of this relates back to my comment on the Safeties.  A crossing pattern is one of the hardest things to cover as a LB.  You need to have a safety step up on it if it is man coverage or you need to flip to zone...otherwise it is going to eat you up all game long.  I don't know if that was lack of recognition and adjustment in the BC game or if they didn't care and just wanted to see how players reacted on certain assignments.  I am hoping it was an assignments thing.
- MLB...Muamba is no slouch.  I don't think he is the best MLB in the league...somewhere in the middle.  Could they do better...certainly...but it is CanCon and he is still solid in there.  He is not in full stride yet this season...no question there.
- WIL...some questions there for sure.  They have had a few players fill in "ok" but the return of SamE would be a massive upgrade.  Francis actually looked ok there though.  Sam is a very good player though...durability is starting to be a question mark.
- Now this goes to Gainey/Rodgers...no concerns there.  I wish Cox was around but he is not.  Having one of he or Rodgers on the other side would be nice and is why Johnson was brought in.  Gainey was one of the best defenders in the league last season and IIRC actually ended up with the highest percentage for passes defended in the league.  Rosgers looked very good in camp...right there with Gainey and arguably better a lot of the time.  He covered Carter and Roosevelt a lot and for the most part shut them down...big statement.  Not too concerned on that side of the field
- Safety...I think I have covered it above
- DT...On the DL the interior is much much better than last season...no comparison IMO.  Minter has a pretty solid push and they are capable of starting 2 nationals.  Ese is IMO actually the best DT on the team...which never would have I guessed coming in...my guess would have been Steele.  Gaydosh is still getting in form, but he is getting there and can be a force.  That is 3 solid national DTs and you can see they are looking at it as a potential of starting 2 if needed...as they PR 1.
- DE...Jefferson is one of the best in the game...no way around it.  he is simply amazing to watch.  I have never been a Leonard fan...but last season was a new spot for him and he looked way way more natural there this camp.  Tull also looks like a really solid pickup...I think he has potential for pushing Newsome out.  Been a fair bit of hype on him and I think he showed why against BC.  Antigha also looks good there.  He does not have the power and smoothness of Tull but is faster.  If he can learn to shed the blocking back better he could be a keeper as well...right now it is an issue...but he has a nonstop motor and a nose for the ball.  Pretty unusual to land 2 very promising DEs like that in one camp...I think Jones knows he has to ship 1-2 DEs out...he just doesn't know who yet because there are promising things on each.  They will get some live bullets before decisions are made.
- the DL as a whole has had issues stopping the rush...both in camp/practice and in games.  It is a concern but something that will improve as they get their rotations down and more importantly...starting LBs get cozy...LBs are critical to runstop in this pass pressure aggressive D.

I will do a lil something on O later....I would love to hear what others have actually seen

JimmytheGreek

Well I honestly don't see us losing to the Als  as bad as we did to the Lions, that said as much as I'm hoping for a win I wouldn't be shocked if we don't. We very very rarely have a good game there for whatever reasons.

I honestly don't know what to think of this season, we could be competitve for the most part or we could get blown out of more then a couple of games. I think a lot depends on how well we do of protecting Glenn and giving him some time. Our defensive run stopping needs to be  tons better and yes our secondary does also. A game like we had  against the Lions  in those areas  and yes it will be ugly though.

I'm going to hold off predicting how good or bad this season turns out until at least a couple of games are played. If we can be at 500 after game 8  I think things may turn out pretty well. If though we are at 3-5 or worse then yeah it probably will be another long season.

cheater

Protect the QB and we score a lot of points. Defence a work in progress. Going to surprise a few teams along the way. Could go 9 and 9 . I don't know who you are depop , but you have a lot of insight into the Riders. Keep it coming.

depopulationINC

Quote from: "cheater"
Protect the QB and we score a lot of points. Defence a work in progress. Going to surprise a few teams along the way. Could go 9 and 9 . I don't know who you are depop , but you have a lot of insight into the Riders. Keep it coming.

Thanks.  Always happy to lay the odd thing out...most from my perspective...some from tidbits I get from inner circles now and then when it seems like something ok to share.


Quote from: "JimmytheGreek "
Well I honestly don't see us losing to the Als  as bad as we did to the Lions, that said as much as I'm hoping for a win I wouldn't be shocked if we don't. We very very rarely have a good game there for whatever reasons.

I honestly don't know what to think of this season, we could be competitve for the most part or we could get blown out of more then a couple of games. I think a lot depends on how well we do of protecting Glenn and giving him some time. Our defensive run stopping needs to be  tons better and yes our secondary does also. A game like we had  against the Lions  in those areas  and yes it will be ugly though.

I'm going to hold off predicting how good or bad this season turns out until at least a couple of games are played. If we can be at 500 after game 8  I think things may turn out pretty well. If though we are at 3-5 or worse then yeah it probably will be another long season.

I am with you on the Als...I don't know what to say with this one.  I think the Als D is going to be a work in progress as well and they have a revamped OL going.  Their OL should be better than last season by a fair margin and they obviously have a mobile QB in Durant who can do a lot of damage.  Big thing with him will be heat so that he can not get that long ball where he kills teams.  They also have a strong ground game and while the Rider D has shown glimpses of being a good ground game stopper they are far from consistent.  LB performance for the Riders will determine a lot there.  

Also with you on predictions here.  I think the nucleus is there for the most part...question marks on a couple DBs...Question mark on RB and even more so running game at this point....QB is front and center with most obviously...see how it looks

depopulationINC

So a little bit on my take on O
- Rob Bagg has been nicked up and they are saying he will miss week one but should be back in week 2...I tend to believe he will miss 2 weeks.  Good chance to take a solid look at Demski and see how real he is.  This is his opportunity.  Bit surprised in Stanford because he had a pretty solid camp.  Not understanding that.  I know it is a numbers game and that they are going to be single gaming a lot of players to start week one so there eventually is a breaking point.  1 gamers can practice still so you are essentially taking the cap hit to further evaluate...essentially extending the roster....can only do that so much because of the cap implications.  1 legit Canadian WR to start the season is concerning.  Real head scratcher there.
- overall...hard not to like the receivers as a whole.  One can nitpick them but overall they  have to be in the top couple groups in the league...toss up with BC IMO.  BC has some speed that has that potential to really separate them at times.
- QB...obviously not the situation I would want....that said, this is the type of O Glenn should excel in...quick hitters...lots of timing...fast release.  Like we saw in a similar situation in 2015 he really excelled with this concept.  Does he have the longevity of 18 games?  Better hope someone can come in and compete for a few games.  The late costly interceptions will be in the back of my mind, but if they can keep him fairly clean he should be pretty good.  Really hoping that Bridge takes the odd series so that Glenn is not throwing 30 x 18 because I am not sure he can maintain that.
- RB I am not terribly concerned.  LaFrance missed camp but he is a good blocker...so not too worried there.  We will see if he can provide some flash.  Morris seems like a guy who can take reps behind him.  Marshall lags slightly in blocking...which is a minor concern as he seemed to steadily get better through camp and is coming close.  Allen was a better blocker, Marshall was about 85% of him blocking wise in the end.  Marshall provides some pop though and is a way better ground threat than Allen...so if he can narrow that blocking gap the choice makes a lot of sense.  Allen was never the guy who is a continual big play threat and that was not going to change...Marshall seems to be more so.  He is no Mcknight...but he is a ground threat and from what I saw can catch a lot better than Allen.
- Ground game as a whole...huge huge huge factor in the season...they have to run.  I know this is a pass first O and with the weapons the team has you should be...but there needs to be some balance.  If Bridge ends up playing more it balances it somewhat because he is mobile....but right now the lack of rushing attempts is my #1 concern with this team.  This seemed to be echoed last season by most and was an issue because the opposing D never gave any respect to it and that made it pretty damned easy to get into passpro mode...combine that with nothing but pass rush on an inexperienced OL and it was a disaster.  2 things on this..1 - What Joe finally made it to town the running game was suddenly a huge factor and the team looked a lot better...I think LaFrance offers a lot of that so we should see it use dmore...hopefully.  I am not asking for 50/50 but 30% would be nice.  2 - Jones has went public to the media stating his concern that there was a lack of a ground game.  That is a big statement.  Jones is not a micro manger at all.  He states his view and expects execution.  He is not going to go public on something like that w/o a reason.  I firmly believe that he had already talked the MacAdoo and that this was a warning shot to show he was serious.
- OL...Dennis is not in his top form yet.  I was not as impressed with him in camp as I thought I would be.  He showed serious rust last week.  I am confident that will all return...he was a bit late to camp due to the Hicks trial and is now with a new line coach...that will take a bit...but he is a damned food player and I believe the reigning most outstanding lineman will get there fast.  LaBatte looked great in camp.  He seemed to have no rust for a guy who missed a season.  King and Campbell gone instantly improves the OL.  Coleman gets a bad rap because of the bad OL he was on last year.  He played beside guys who where not ready and a rotating door and also rotated positions himself...LT, RT, RG...he was all over.  Am I saying he is going to be an all-star...no...but IMO he takes too much flack.  I watched him a fair bit in camp and he looked fairly good....I fif not pay too much mind to him in actual games though.  The coaches have worked with him about focusing on his assignment and worrying less about the inexperience beside him and that seems to pay off well.  He and JSJ seem to be a pretty good combination.  He did not look as good with Meredith beside him, but he is on the PR now.  JSJ looked solid.  He seems to be getting there.  I am actually not too worried about him at this point.  The 2 of them work well together on sweepouts....so I am looking forward to seeing some plays to the right side wide.  Bladek had a good camp but was eaten alive by BC.  He is going to be very good in the long run...you can just tell.  He takes it was seriously and is doing the homework and extra gym time.  He is always beside guys like Bagg and Jefferson...likes to push himself and aligns himself with people who do the same.  The draft class on the OL seems to have been an absolute homerun this season.  Not saying they can step in now but long term this is very promising.  I expect a trade at some point this season.  The addition of Dyakowski adds some depth when needed.  He is a pretty expensive insurance policy unless he renegotiated but probably worth it...having a guy who can step in if they struggle (including LaBatte) is huge to a pretty darned young OL.  He is not what he was 2 years ago but he is still very capable.  Again...I expect a trade at some point barring injury or someone pushing into the RT spot....and they do have some options there so it could happen sooner than one might think.

Overall...I like the base of this team.  I have a few big concerns, but overall it looks good.  
Big questions on 2 secondary spots and concerns on depth after that and QB stability are the big ones, but nothing trumps the need for a running game.

GC Bound

Yes don't get me wrong either. And I don't necessarily disagree with your Overview Depop..
I'm just saying, without the "in the scene" access I assume you have, given your many detailed posts; and I get the "we can win" desire we get as Rider Fans which is tugging at me also but when you have a suspicion, that's the thing.
Frankly I hope we have a KILLER season and I also see many 'individual' great talents on the Rider Roster but as we all know individuals don't always  Mould Together as a Team. And frankly, imho there appears to be the "potential" for an overload of EGO. It will be very revealing early on I think, whether we have a strong team base or a group of really talented "individual greats"
Like all Fans that want their team to win I hope we do.
And your right folks, there hasn't even been the first snap or Kick Off so here's hoping.
We'll see . :cowboy:

Jindred313

From what I see I think out team is going to be a middle of the road kinda team this year, unless Bridge or Williams happens to unseat Glenn and have a stellar year.

The difficult part is there are three teams in the west who I think are clearly better than us. Calgary, Edmonton and B.C.
Edmonton only so long as Mike Reilly stays healthy.

So the problem this year isn't going to be how bad of a team we are like last year. This year is going to be that we just aren't quite there yet, and those teams are. My expectations this year are about 8-10 range where we are fairly competitive and don't get blown out a bunch.

ed ohmnes

5 and 13 again

depopulationINC

Quote from: "Jindred313"
From what I see I think out team is going to be a middle of the road kinda team this year, unless Bridge or Williams happens to unseat Glenn and have a stellar year.

The difficult part is there are three teams in the west who I think are clearly better than us. Calgary, Edmonton and B.C.
Edmonton only so long as Mike Reilly stays healthy.

So the problem this year isn't going to be how bad of a team we are like last year. This year is going to be that we just aren't quite there yet, and those teams are. My expectations this year are about 8-10 range where we are fairly competitive and don't get blown out a bunch.

I tend to agree.  I think it is shaping well for long term success but it is somewhere in the middle ATM.

I disagree on Edmonton though.  Reilly is great but Franklin is a solid #2...perhaps the best in the league.  He played great as a rookie, better last year and IMO on par with Reilly in preseason...some might argue better.  I think where there issue could be is nation depth.  It went down a bit last season and a bit more this season...atop of that their starting national LB is gone goring the season already and their promising 3rd year guy is starting with a broken bones in I believe hand.  They still have some solid Canadian talent starting but have some depth concerns their now.  They will likely be looking at some cuts over the next week and picking a guy or 2 up.  Their import talent on D is also not where it was 2 seasons ago IMO...but we will see how some of the guys do with another year of experience there.

I agree on your expectation...that is a number that puts them in the hunt.  IIRC correctly I think I said 5 to 7 or 6 to 8 for last season...and LDC robbing on Cox "PI" away from hitting 6.  This year is feel 7 to 9...stretch being 10...largely dependant on pushing for 10 will be shoring up at least one field side DBS and QB health.

bowl450

I must have missed it but what injury put Tevaughn Campbell on the 6 game ?

patcarm

Hey, with the Als game it's simple.  If Andre Proulx is the ref, we're done at the coin toss.  Happy 2017!

Jindred313

Quote from: "depopulationINC"
Quote from: "Jindred313"
From what I see I think out team is going to be a middle of the road kinda team this year, unless Bridge or Williams happens to unseat Glenn and have a stellar year.

The difficult part is there are three teams in the west who I think are clearly better than us. Calgary, Edmonton and B.C.
Edmonton only so long as Mike Reilly stays healthy.

So the problem this year isn't going to be how bad of a team we are like last year. This year is going to be that we just aren't quite there yet, and those teams are. My expectations this year are about 8-10 range where we are fairly competitive and don't get blown out a bunch.

I tend to agree.  I think it is shaping well for long term success but it is somewhere in the middle ATM.

I disagree on Edmonton though.  Reilly is great but Franklin is a solid #2...perhaps the best in the league.  He played great as a rookie, better last year and IMO on par with Reilly in preseason...some might argue better.  I think where there issue could be is nation depth.  It went down a bit last season and a bit more this season...atop of that their starting national LB is gone goring the season already and their promising 3rd year guy is starting with a broken bones in I believe hand.  They still have some solid Canadian talent starting but have some depth concerns their now.  They will likely be looking at some cuts over the next week and picking a guy or 2 up.  Their import talent on D is also not where it was 2 seasons ago IMO...but we will see how some of the guys do with another year of experience there.

I agree on your expectation...that is a number that puts them in the hunt.  IIRC correctly I think I said 5 to 7 or 6 to 8 for last season...and LDC robbing on Cox "PI" away from hitting 6.  This year is feel 7 to 9...stretch being 10...largely dependant on pushing for 10 will be shoring up at least one field side DBS and QB health.


Totally forgot about Franklin lol.

ed ohmnes

franklin   we better not be waisting 2 years waiting for a chance to get Franklinstein , that would be a real sad situation,  we need to get our own q.b.,  not play around waiting for something that may not happen,  I mean why would they trade him to a western team, that makes no sense at all.  he'll go to Toronto if he goes anywhere,  and that's the bottom line .

bowl450

Quote from: "Abendschan"
Agreed with your thought on Franklin Ed Ohmnes. I still have a thought lingering that QB Mike Reilly becomes a Saskatchewan Roughrider.

IMO  Reilly will be either in  Montreal or Toronto not to a western team
 


Users Online

91 Guests, 14 Users (16 Spiders, 1 Hidden)

Users active in past 15 minutes:
Hamilton2005, mycko75, brianjoxx, 97valkyrie, Mightygoose, VICIOUSCIRCLE, DisplacedCatsFan, sully, RM14, StampsRock!, schmenger, letsgoticats, TravelPat1, Yahoo!, Google (13), Baidu, Alexa

Most Online Today: 160. Most Online Ever: 489 (Nov 26 2017, 08:38 PM)