nowhereman

Dunk is reporting (yes...I know) there is no signing bonus on VY's contract
http://3downnation.com/2017/03/10/vince ... ing-bonus/

LeStaf

Honnêtement, je m'imagine mal Young devenir un partant dans cette ligue.

Il n'a pas joué au football depuis 6 ans et il n'a jamais joué au football canadien.  Même dans la NFL, il a un ratio de passes complétées de moins de 60%, et je ne crois pas qu'il va améliorer ça à 34 ans, après 6 ans d'inactivité.  Tout ce que sa présence va donner, c'est un peu de publicité pour l'équipe et lui aux USA.  S'il reste au sein de l'équipe, il prendra du temps d'entraînement aux jeunes quarts-arrières pour un gars qui ne finira peut-être pas la saison.

Je me méfie toujours de ces joueurs qui se présentent dans la LCF en se disant que c'est du football, donc ils savent ce que c'est.  Je me souviens de l'ouverture du camp d'entraînement des Alouettes en 2014 où j'ai parlé avec Troy Smith.  J'ai pointé ses souliers et je lui ai dit qu'il en avait des très grands à remplir (en parlant de Calvillo).  Il m'a fait tout un boniment pour me dire qu'il savait mais qu'il avait beaucoup de bagage de football et que ça allait fonctionner.  Je lui ai dit que si c'est ce qu'il pensait, il ne finirait pas la saison.  Je lui ai dit de ne pas sous-estimer cette ligue et encore moins la quantité de travail qu'il avait devant lui pour s'y adapter.  Il m'a regardé surpris de mes propos et m'a indiqué qu'il travaillait fort.  Je lui ai dit que c'était tant mieux, mais que ce n'était pas assez et qu'il le réaliserait un moment donné. Ça a fini par arriver et l'aventure Troy Smith s'est terminée rapidement.  Le résultat final : les Alouettes ont perdu un an dans leur recherche d'un quart-arrière d'avenir.

Je ne vois pas la venue de Young comme une façon de relancer cette équipe, même s'il devait s'y tailler un poste.  Il sera une recrue qui empêchera de développer une vraie recrue.
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depopulationINC

Quote from: "LeStaf"
Honnêtement, je m'imagine mal Young devenir un partant dans cette ligue.

Il n'a pas joué au football depuis 6 ans et il n'a jamais joué au football canadien.  Même dans la NFL, il a un ratio de passes complétées de moins de 60%, et je ne crois pas qu'il va améliorer ça à 34 ans, après 6 ans d'inactivité.  Tout ce que sa présence va donner, c'est un peu de publicité pour l'équipe et lui aux USA.  S'il reste au sein de l'équipe, il prendra du temps d'entraînement aux jeunes quarts-arrières pour un gars qui ne finira peut-être pas la saison.

Je me méfie toujours de ces joueurs qui se présentent dans la LCF en se disant que c'est du football, donc ils savent ce que c'est.  Je me souviens de l'ouverture du camp d'entraînement des Alouettes en 2014 où j'ai parlé avec Troy Smith.  J'ai pointé ses souliers et je lui ai dit qu'il en avait des très grands à remplir (en parlant de Calvillo).  Il m'a fait tout un boniment pour me dire qu'il savait mais qu'il avait beaucoup de bagage de football et que ça allait fonctionner.  Je lui ai dit que si c'est ce qu'il pensait, il ne finirait pas la saison.  Je lui ai dit de ne pas sous-estimer cette ligue et encore moins la quantité de travail qu'il avait devant lui pour s'y adapter.  Il m'a regardé surpris de mes propos et m'a indiqué qu'il travaillait fort.  Je lui ai dit que c'était tant mieux, mais que ce n'était pas assez et qu'il le réaliserait un moment donné. Ça a fini par arriver et l'aventure Troy Smith s'est terminée rapidement.  Le résultat final : les Alouettes ont perdu un an dans leur recherche d'un quart-arrière d'avenir.

Je ne vois pas la venue de Young comme une façon de relancer cette équipe, même s'il devait s'y tailler un poste.  Il sera une recrue qui empêchera de développer une vraie recrue.

while completion percentage is important I don't have an issue with a roughly 60% NFL passer...Doug Flutie is regarded as one of the best CFL QBs of all time and had a career average of 1% higher overall and 4 or 5 lower than young within th NFL itself.  Jeff Garcia did well in both leagues ant was under 62 in each.  Peyton Manning is regarded as a premier pocket passer of our time and was a 65% passer while providing essentially nothing for mobility.  Even the mighty Tom Brady, probably the best QB of all time, is only around 5% higher at under 64%.  You need to realize that there are only like maybe 40 or 50 or so QBs in NFL history (who have actually played real time of say more than 1000 pass attempts) that have completed over 60% in their careers and not a single one...to my knowledge...has averaged 70.  IIRC Drew Brees us the most accurate NFL QB of all time an is around 67% I believe.

now when comparing NFL and CFL completion percentages I have always noticed that most QBs go up a couple points in the CFL vs their NFL numbers....perhaps something to do with experience but I have always attributed it a lot to the bigger field giving more room to throw a receiver open.  Garcia is an example of a guy who put up similar numbers in both leagues and did it well in both...but most seem to go up a bit from what I have seen.  Of course the past couple of years where you draw a flag for looking at a receiver wrong is skewing those numbers up in a massive way...Henry Burris, for example, crushed his career average the past 2 seasons....bigtime....so I would say that couple percent should be 5+ now to translate to a success story...assuming the no touching rules still apply....that is to say Young should be 63-65% or better to really be viewed as a successful transition accuracy wise.  But again career wise nobody in the CFL has hit 70 and there are only a few that are 65%+...Ray, Dickenson, Collaros, Willy, Mitchell, Reilly.  You will notice that 4 of 6 of those players have thrown most of their passes under the "no touching rules" and one of the best of all time in the CFL in Anthony Calvillo was a 62.4% QB and only broke 70% once.  

If a QB generally gains a couple points historically transitioning from the NFL to the CFL and most QBs in the CFL are up 5% or better under new rules then a roughly 60% passer in the NFL...if he has the arm strength for the wider field (big if) he could do good things.

IMO the big concern with Young is TD to INT ratio and INTs/pass rating.  Some of that...in fairness...is that a bulk of his career his receivers plain old sucked....put it this way, they were a brutal 4 win team the year before him and were 8-8 with him as a rookie and 10-6 the following year...despite the fact that the ream really truly still did suck...especially the O


I'm not advocating that Young will be a screaming success or even that he will make the team...just pointing out that some of the things you point out I kinda shrug off.  Like I said before...he is a QB that finds success in extended plays and that is kinda the exact opposite of what this O aims to do...so that will be a problem likely

ed ohmnes

Kind of like durant

JimmytheGreek

Quote from: "LeStaf"
Honnêtement, je m'imagine mal Young devenir un partant dans cette ligue.

Il n'a pas joué au football depuis 6 ans et il n'a jamais joué au football canadien.  Même dans la NFL, il a un ratio de passes complétées de moins de 60%, et je ne crois pas qu'il va améliorer ça à 34 ans, après 6 ans d'inactivité.  Tout ce que sa présence va donner, c'est un peu de publicité pour l'équipe et lui aux USA.  S'il reste au sein de l'équipe, il prendra du temps d'entraînement aux jeunes quarts-arrières pour un gars qui ne finira peut-être pas la saison.

Je me méfie toujours de ces joueurs qui se présentent dans la LCF en se disant que c'est du football, donc ils savent ce que c'est.  Je me souviens de l'ouverture du camp d'entraînement des Alouettes en 2014 où j'ai parlé avec Troy Smith.  J'ai pointé ses souliers et je lui ai dit qu'il en avait des très grands à remplir (en parlant de Calvillo).  Il m'a fait tout un boniment pour me dire qu'il savait mais qu'il avait beaucoup de bagage de football et que ça allait fonctionner.  Je lui ai dit que si c'est ce qu'il pensait, il ne finirait pas la saison.  Je lui ai dit de ne pas sous-estimer cette ligue et encore moins la quantité de travail qu'il avait devant lui pour s'y adapter.  Il m'a regardé surpris de mes propos et m'a indiqué qu'il travaillait fort.  Je lui ai dit que c'était tant mieux, mais que ce n'était pas assez et qu'il le réaliserait un moment donné. Ça a fini par arriver et l'aventure Troy Smith s'est terminée rapidement.  Le résultat final : les Alouettes ont perdu un an dans leur recherche d'un quart-arrière d'avenir.

Je ne vois pas la venue de Young comme une façon de relancer cette équipe, même s'il devait s'y tailler un poste.  Il sera une recrue qui empêchera de développer une vraie recrue.


Exactly. Oh I know how Jones loves his "experiments" or "projects" this though means a potential young qb is being neglected because there is only so much time that can be given to the non starter to get any practice reps.  No rock unturned though right guys?

bowl450

Quote from: "JimmytheGreek "
Quote from: "LeStaf"
Honnêtement, je m'imagine mal Young devenir un partant dans cette ligue.

Il n'a pas joué au football depuis 6 ans et il n'a jamais joué au football canadien.  Même dans la NFL, il a un ratio de passes complétées de moins de 60%, et je ne crois pas qu'il va améliorer ça à 34 ans, après 6 ans d'inactivité.  Tout ce que sa présence va donner, c'est un peu de publicité pour l'équipe et lui aux USA.  S'il reste au sein de l'équipe, il prendra du temps d'entraînement aux jeunes quarts-arrières pour un gars qui ne finira peut-être pas la saison.

Je me méfie toujours de ces joueurs qui se présentent dans la LCF en se disant que c'est du football, donc ils savent ce que c'est.  Je me souviens de l'ouverture du camp d'entraînement des Alouettes en 2014 où j'ai parlé avec Troy Smith.  J'ai pointé ses souliers et je lui ai dit qu'il en avait des très grands à remplir (en parlant de Calvillo).  Il m'a fait tout un boniment pour me dire qu'il savait mais qu'il avait beaucoup de bagage de football et que ça allait fonctionner.  Je lui ai dit que si c'est ce qu'il pensait, il ne finirait pas la saison.  Je lui ai dit de ne pas sous-estimer cette ligue et encore moins la quantité de travail qu'il avait devant lui pour s'y adapter.  Il m'a regardé surpris de mes propos et m'a indiqué qu'il travaillait fort.  Je lui ai dit que c'était tant mieux, mais que ce n'était pas assez et qu'il le réaliserait un moment donné. Ça a fini par arriver et l'aventure Troy Smith s'est terminée rapidement.  Le résultat final : les Alouettes ont perdu un an dans leur recherche d'un quart-arrière d'avenir.

Je ne vois pas la venue de Young comme une façon de relancer cette équipe, même s'il devait s'y tailler un poste.  Il sera une recrue qui empêchera de développer une vraie recrue.


Exactly. Oh I know how Jones loves his "experiments" or "projects" this though means a potential young qb is being neglected because there is only so much time that can be given to the non starter to get any practice reps.  No rock unturned though right guys?


IMO, is that Vince Young's not that accurate of a passer, with the CFL being a pass orientated  league, and with his TD to interception ratio it doesn't look good on his part.
57.9% completion ratio, 46 td passes, 51 interceptions in 60 NFL games.
VY also has to deal with a wider field, extra man and motion, none of which he experienced before.
granted he is mobile, 1459 yds in the NFL, which is no small feat for a QB.
the wider field will work to VY scrambling abilities but hinder his passing deficiency's

GC Bound

Quote from: "PrideLivesHere"
Just caught the last 30 minutes of the live press feed.

Man I am impressed with his attitude, honest answers to the questions and maturity.

I am also glad to hear that the Rider brass were impressed with his workout.

I really hope he can still play and keep up with the speed of professional game day.

If nothing else, this has me excited in March.  :rockin:

Go Riders Go.

Yey, I got the same vibe..... Interesting :cowboy:

Preisst

Quote from: "bowl450"
IMO, is that Vince Young's not that accurate of a passer, with the CFL being a pass orientated  league, and with his TD to interception ratio it doesn't look good on his part.
57.9% completion ratio, 46 td passes, 51 interceptions in 60 NFL games.
VY also has to deal with a wider field, extra man and motion, none of which he experienced before.
granted he is mobile, 1459 yds in the NFL, which is no small feat for a QB.
the wider field will work to VY scrambling abilities but hinder his passing deficiency's


Well according to the Haters that are anti-Roughrider it won't matter cuz they are claiming he is overweight and hence his scrambling abilities will be non-existent.
"It is a sign of strength, not of weakness, to admit that you don't know all the answers." --John P. Lougbrane

ppull rulz!!!!

cheater

Quote from: "Preisst"
Quote from: "bowl450"
IMO, is that Vince Young's not that accurate of a passer, with the CFL being a pass orientated  league, and with his TD to interception ratio it doesn't look good on his part.
57.9% completion ratio, 46 td passes, 51 interceptions in 60 NFL games.
VY also has to deal with a wider field, extra man and motion, none of which he experienced before.
granted he is mobile, 1459 yds in the NFL, which is no small feat for a QB.
the wider field will work to VY scrambling abilities but hinder his passing deficiency's


Well according to the Haters that are anti-Roughrider it won't matter cuz they are claiming he is overweight and hence his scrambling abilities will be non-existent.
Well according to the Haters that are anti-Roughrider it won't matter cuz no matter what the Riders do it's wrong.

HfxTC

Maybe you should start in your own backyard. Plenty of Rider fans who don't think Jones and his crew have accomplished a darn thing.
Everything I write is just an opinion formed from various sources. Some more reliable than others, it is expressed as a composite of facts, innuendos, emotions, personal experiences and complete fabulation into a gumbo for entertainment purposes alone.

cheater

Quote from: "HfxTC"
Maybe you should start in your own backyard. Plenty of Rider fans who don't think Jones and his crew have accomplished a darn thing.
I can honestly say that I have talked to many people in my "backyard" and yes there are definitely a lot of poeople who don't agree with the direction they're headed however most say that it has only been a year since jones has taken over it is too early to panic. Like any news or sport story it's usually the negative ones who speak the loudest.

JimmytheGreek

Here is the harsh reality of the situation. Young has not played any meaningful ball for at least 6 years. Yes he was good at scrambling but again realistically he has probably lost a step or two in that time frame. His accuracy is not great and the word is like Glenn he gets "locked in" on his primary target, thus the picks. He knows probably very little about  our game and no football is not football on either side of the border, each game has its major differences, that with what I have heard he is not quick at picking things up means it could be quite some time before he does or if he ever does. He knows nothing about our offense and has zero chemistry with any of the coaches or players. These are not great indicators that he will be "the white knight" to lead our team. A few other NFL qb's have come to the CFL and vanished very quickly for a number of reasons, so to think Young can be "the guy" on opening day is a major stretch.

I get that he  was a low risk and low cost acquirement but why are we wasting time on a 34 year old "rookie" when we need to be using that time on a much younger player that could be around for some time? Waters may have had potential but lol one series and done its pretty hard to tell. Doesn't matter as he is done playing due to the injury anyways. I'm sorry but this just reeks of a hail Mary  on the teams part as far as filling the qb spot and seems to fly in the face of Jone's and Murphy's mantra of building sustainable success. How does a 34 year old rookie fit into such a plan? Honestly it doesn't if they were to be realistic about the whole situation.

My only hope is Glenn can have a start like he did here back in 2015, otherwise as it looks right now this team is screwed at the qb spot.

cheater

Way too much concern over someone who may not even make it to training camp.

JimmytheGreek

Quote from: "cheater"
Way too much concern over someone who may not even make it to training camp.


The concern comes from what seems to be "the plan" we keep hearing "the plan" didn't include a qb that has had success here in the past. Fine, then taking a long shot on someone like Young sound like a good plan? Sure doesn't seem like it in my books.

If they wanted to bring in some young qb's with honest potential I wouldn't have a problem with that. This though? Yeah again it seems so much like grasping at straws. Again probably wasting time on such a long shot when there is so little of it to fritter away during practices seems not the wisest use of resources.

Heck if we had a bonified  starter and they wanted to muck around with this that would be one thing but we don't so how about quit screwing around on these "projects" and bear down on finding us the next Durant, or Austin, or Ronnie. Jones got himself in this pickle by walking away from Darian and that is his choice  but I honestly felt he had a legitimate qb in mind or at the very least a legitimate potential qb coming in.

Oh I know we haven't even gotten to training camp and lots can change yet, but this has been said ever since the trade and so far? Yeah really, really impressive so far.

I have nothing against Young or Glenn or anyone we have here now, that said though this is not exactly what I envisioned as the way we would be heading into the season and the new stadium.

Thus the reason for the amount of concern and I'm sure I'm not alone in that either.

depopulationINC

Quote from: "JimmytheGreek "
Quote from: "cheater"
Way too much concern over someone who may not even make it to training camp.


The concern comes from what seems to be "the plan" we keep hearing "the plan" didn't include a qb that has had success here in the past. Fine, then taking a long shot on someone like Young sound like a good plan? Sure doesn't seem like it in my books.

If they wanted to bring in some young qb's with honest potential I wouldn't have a problem with that. This though? Yeah again it seems so much like grasping at straws. Again probably wasting time on such a long shot when there is so little of it to fritter away during practices seems not the wisest use of resources.

Heck if we had a bonified  starter and they wanted to muck around with this that would be one thing but we don't so how about quit screwing around on these "projects" and bear down on finding us the next Durant, or Austin, or Ronnie. Jones got himself in this pickle by walking away from Darian and that is his choice  but I honestly felt he had a legitimate qb in mind or at the very least a legitimate potential qb coming in.

Oh I know we haven't even gotten to training camp and lots can change yet, but this has been said ever since the trade and so far? Yeah really, really impressive so far.

I have nothing against Young or Glenn or anyone we have here now, that said though this is not exactly what I envisioned as the way we would be heading into the season and the new stadium.

Thus the reason for the amount of concern and I'm sure I'm not alone in that either.

Who is saying "the plan"  that we apparently keep hearing about?
I don't recall seeing that here nor seeing anyone from the Rider office ever saying anything like it.
 


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