HfxTC

Quote from: "ed ohmnes"
Also, if he's just here to try get back to the NFL., then he's really wasting our time , we should be trying to develope another younger q.b.

That ship has sailed. I don't think this will be successful but if he beats the odds it will be one of the great come back stories in sports.
Everything I write is just an opinion formed from various sources. Some more reliable than others, it is expressed as a composite of facts, innuendos, emotions, personal experiences and complete fabulation into a gumbo for entertainment purposes alone.

depopulationINC

Quote from: "HfxTC"
Quote from: "ed ohmnes"
Also, if he's just here to try get back to the NFL., then he's really wasting our time , we should be trying to develope another younger q.b.

That ship has sailed. I don't think this will be successful but if he beats the odds it will be one of the great come back stories in sports.

That is where I am at.  Unless they did something stupid contract wise it seems to be a low risk gamble for potential of very high reward.  If it doesn't work out they are simply out some signing bonus...which thus far guys like Lawless are indicating is small.

nowhereman

The vet QB we go with needs to commit to a number of years to be able to mentor the young 'uns we need to develop. If VY is just in it for a token run…it does our development plan a disservice.

HfxTC

After Jones disaster season last year, the plan is "now"...
Everything I write is just an opinion formed from various sources. Some more reliable than others, it is expressed as a composite of facts, innuendos, emotions, personal experiences and complete fabulation into a gumbo for entertainment purposes alone.

depopulationINC

Quote from: "nowhereman"
The vet QB we go with needs to commit to a number of years to be able to mentor the young 'uns we need to develop. If VY is just in it for a token run…it does our development plan a disservice.

I somewhat disagree.  If you have a dedicated QB coach and they can't do that then it is time for a new one.  DD'S best years...for example...we're with a dedicated qb coach...I would imagine his next best were ones when the OC was also a QB coach and I would speculate the worst years were ones with nothing.  A good QB to mentor under as well is a bonus but shouldn't be required...20 years ago I would entirely agree but most teams now recognize the value in the position

ed ohmnes

Yes I think this is jones' s plan , he's laid it all out now, and by the looks of this I honestly think this guy might work out,  I guess it,s wait and see now.

Preisst

Guess we have nothing to lose as long as we don't spend a lot of money on an advance.

I'm not expecting this to amount to a whole lot,  if it does then great.....
"It is a sign of strength, not of weakness, to admit that you don\'t know all the answers." --John P. Lougbrane

ppull rulz!!!!

nowhereman

Quote from: "depopulationINC"

I somewhat disagree.  If you have a dedicated QB coach and they can't do that then it is time for a new one.  DD'S best years...for example...we're with a dedicated qb coach...I would imagine his next best were ones when the OC was also a QB coach and I would speculate the worst years were ones with nothing.  A good QB to mentor under as well is a bonus but shouldn't be required...20 years ago I would entirely agree but most teams now recognize the value in the position
I'm thinking more in terms of the dynamics during the games where the starting QB is discussing (on the sideline in between series) what the other team's D is doing and how the #2 & #3's can expect to manage that. I don't know how the team operates on the sideline, but that was just my logic. The vet QB can say "this is how I deal with this or that situation" and possibly give them little tips from their experience.

Taleback

My fear is that Jones is going to give him a bit of preferred treatment. If Young is close, but not quite at par as to what Glenn brings to the table, Young gets the job. Jones has a lot riding on this decision and he will go above and beyond what is best for the organization at the Q.B. spot to give Young more opportunities than would be given to another prospect, IMO.

depopulationINC

Quote from: "nowhereman"
Quote from: "depopulationINC"

I somewhat disagree.  If you have a dedicated QB coach and they can't do that then it is time for a new one.  DD'S best years...for example...we're with a dedicated qb coach...I would imagine his next best were ones when the OC was also a QB coach and I would speculate the worst years were ones with nothing.  A good QB to mentor under as well is a bonus but shouldn't be required...20 years ago I would entirely agree but most teams now recognize the value in the position

I'm thinking more in terms of the dynamics during the games where the starting QB is discussing (on the sideline in between series) what the other team's D is doing and how the #2 & #3's can expect to manage that. I don't know how the team operates on the sideline, but that was just my logic. The vet QB can say "this is how I deal with this or that situation" and possibly give them little tips from their experience.

that is exactly what a QB coach does.  It is the reason a lot of people are not fans of the OC being the QB coach as well.  A QB coach generally stands with the backups and discusses the plays with the backs a bit during the play and after but predominantly will pull the group aside when the O is not on the field and have a they discuss the series very quickly.  that is where the QBs talk about trends they saw and ideas/issues/concerns...big opportunity to mention broken coverage on a play to think about later in the game...which is discussed with the OC especially at half...in modern football the 3rd stringer will timestamp particular instances they want to review and the group can visually see the play on demand.  A QB coach is good for this because most QBs get a little tight lipped while processing stuff on the sideline simply because that is often natural to go silent when you are processing stuff and a QB coach can get conversation going which is usually good.  They are also in tune enough with the QB to know when to just leave them alone.

There are definitely QBs that are very helpful on the sidelines...but most get somewhat limited because at the end of the day they are still competing for reps.  DD is an example of a guy who is not very vocal on the sideline if he is dressed but is great when he is not...Jackson was not a helper at all on the sidelines which is why a lot of people questioned him becoming a QB coach though he seems to be alright at it now that he is not in the mix....Reilly is a QB that will talk a lot with the other QBs during the games...Buris in time became much the same.  Point being you can never count on a QB helping out other QBs a whole bunch while the pads are still on and even if they do they can be holding back intentionally or unintentionally...a retired QB standing there is not going to hold back.  One of the best QBs for helping others while still having the pads on the Riders have had was Markus Crandel

before the QB coaches came along that vet mentorship was very important...and it is still beneficial but you should be getting more out of an actual coach



the thing that I find interesting with Young development wise in this whole mix that I have not seen/heard mentioned is Brandon Bridge.  I have never been sold on Bridge (I still wanted to see Waters) but there are a lot of people who are and they cite how he played in he final game of 2016.  Here is the thing though....he and Young are essentially the identical build and have pretty similar attributes...that could be a very interesting dynamic to watch and could be a big thing if Bridge is going to develop.  Bridge is a little slower but not a pile...but he has a better release and from my understanding a good wonderlic (Young's was pretty low) which means he might pick up new plays faster.  Where knowledge sharing between QBs is nice is when you have someone of similar attributes you are playing beside and likely relate to a bit in that sense.

I say "wanted" on Waters because it sounds like he is leaving for a coaching gig at Iowa State.  Wondering if this was further motivation to bring in Young because  I know that there was a lot of hope in him moving forward but I also knew there were question marks around how / if he would recover well from his injury.  Jones was high on him as was Jackson and as an indicator....Austin, Huf, Tillman, Scott M all liked Waters as well.  I think he had a pile of potential.

bowl450

the thing that bothers me is that VY signed for 1 year plus an option, I would have liked to see a minimum 2 year contract.
if VY shows that his skills are returning will there be enough  interest to have VY return to the NFL next year ?
if that is the case, are we back at where we were yesterday, looking for a  starting QB ?
or is VY a stopgap measure to wait for James Franklin to become a free agent ?
only time will tell.

Depop your insight as far a Waters goes is to bad as IMO he had a tremendous up side, and possible his injury and the VY talk and signing solidified his decision ?

Bridge, I have always liked but IMO he has the wrong birth certificate, to be given a legitimate shot,
hope I'm wrong on this.

depopulationINC

Quote from: "bowl450"
the thing that bothers me is that VY signed for 1 year plus an option, I would have liked to see a minimum 2 year contract.
if VY shows that his skills are returning will there be enough  interest to have VY return to the NFL next year ?
if that is the case, are we back at where we were yesterday, looking for a  starting QB ?
or is VY a stopgap measure to wait for James Franklin to become a free agent ?
only time will tell.

as far a Waters goes to bad as IMO he had a tremendous up side, and possible the VY talk and signing solidified his decision ?

If by chance Young does well and makes the team and starts and even lights it up and by some chance has a season where he shocks everyone and passes for 6000 yards and provides the legs he has in the past and keeps his interception ratio down and heck lets even say he becomes an MOP candidate (just for going with an absolute best  case scenario) he is all but done with any chance in the NFL.  Age aside, with the way the NFL changed a few years back he is now vetted and has no PR eligibility.  That is why he was brought into NFL camps but never made the roster...he would need to go on the gameday rosters from day 1...if he was not vetted he likely would have stuck in the NFL a few years back when he tried a comeback.  It is also why he said he would not be interested in the NFL unless there was a 2-3 year guaranteed deal...because that commitment means he is not going to come into a camp only to be released because of his vet status....in other words a team needs to commit to him upon even offering him a spot...doesn't have to be a starter spot...just a spot.  So yeah...NFL time is done.  That vet status change is something some GMs are FINALLY starting to look at when they are looking at ex-NFLers.

I know I have talked about this on here before and found it surprising that has not evolved quicker as a part of the recruiting strategy.  I believe I used Roosevelt as an example...the guy is good enough to be in the NFL but because of his vet status the door likely does not open...which is why picking him up was such a solid move.  Same goes for Edwards...5 years vetting approaches and doors close in the NFL now.

I tend to think they still have eyes on Franklin as well...but you can take it to the bank that Trestman will as well.  

I doubt that this was the decision maker on Waters.  This would have been something that was in talks for a while.  As I mentioned...it was a known concern that he might not be back and that has been a concern for pushing 2 months...that is not because of this job but the way he is healing.  he may have been on the fence craving to play and knowing that this might be the best move for him and Young may have been the final nudge but it was unlikely the bulk of weighing it out.

bowl450

Quote from: "depopulationINC"
Quote from: "bowl450"
the thing that bothers me is that VY signed for 1 year plus an option, I would have liked to see a minimum 2 year contract.
if VY shows that his skills are returning will there be enough  interest to have VY return to the NFL next year ?
if that is the case, are we back at where we were yesterday, looking for a  starting QB ?
or is VY a stopgap measure to wait for James Franklin to become a free agent ?
only time will tell.

as far a Waters goes to bad as IMO he had a tremendous up side, and possible the VY talk and signing solidified his decision ?

If by chance Young does well and makes the team and starts and even lights it up and by some chance has a season where he shocks everyone and passes for 6000 yards and provides the legs he has in the past and keeps his interception ratio down and heck lets even say he becomes an MOP candidate (just for going with an absolute best  case scenario) he is all but done with any chance in the NFL.  Age aside, with the way the NFL changed a few years back he is now vetted and has no PR eligibility.  That is why he was brought into NFL camps but never made the roster...he would need to go on the gameday rosters from day 1...if he was not vetted he likely would have stuck in the NFL a few years back when he tried a comeback.  It is also why he said he would not be interested in the NFL unless there was a 2-3 year guaranteed deal...because that commitment means he is not going to come into a camp only to be released because of his vet status....in other words a team needs to commit to him upon even offering him a spot...doesn't have to be a starter spot...just a spot.  So yeah...NFL time is done.  That vet status change is something some GMs are FINALLY starting to look at when they are looking at ex-NFLers.

I know I have talked about this on here before and found it surprising that has not evolved quicker as a part of the recruiting strategy.  I believe I used Roosevelt as an example...the guy is good enough to be in the NFL but because of his vet status the door likely does not open...which is why picking him up was such a solid move.  Same goes for Edwards...5 years vetting approaches and doors close in the NFL now.

I tend to think they still have eyes on Franklin as well...but you can take it to the bank that Trestman will as well.  

I doubt that this was the decision maker on Waters.  This would have been something that was in talks for a while.  As I mentioned...it was a known concern that he might not be back and that has been a concern for pushing 2 months...that is not because of this job but the way he is healing.  he may have been on the fence craving to play and knowing that this might be the best move for him and Young may have been the final nudge but it was unlikely the bulk of weighing it out.

thanks for the additional insight Depop.

ed ohmnes

So why are we wasting yet another year waiting , wait,  maybe    To get franklin.  That would be 2 wasted years that with a decent o line we could have kept durant or been developing a younger guy. We could have just changed a few pieces and kept rolling along,  I think they should just forget about franklin and get on with it, forget about these stop gap  fixes. I thought jones was the guru.guy. .  We need to get back to winning this season or clean the house and start over.

depopulationINC

no problem

I still think that even if Young were to get into his peak form there will be woes.  He is not really a drop and gun QB...which is actually where Glenn might excel in this O.  Young is a guy who seems to excel in extended plays which is not what this O wants to do at all.
 


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