Slomojo2005

Quote from: "TommyBoy1"
36 and 36 regular season
4 and 4 playoffs
That is a  pretty good sample size and it points to mediocrity. It also seems to be going down hill. Last year the Ticats lost to Toronto, Saskatchewan and Montreal--all past labour day.

We all wanted Kent to be great but so far he hasn't been.

2 Grey Cup appearances!  And should have beat Calgary if not for the flag on Speedy's return!  Thatz not mediocre my friend.  KA's record is no grounds for dismissal consideration.  Sure as heck beats what the other HC's have done since late 1990s.... NOT GOING TO FIND BETTER.

15_championships

Quote from: "Slomojo2005"
Quote from: "TommyBoy1"
36 and 36 regular season
4 and 4 playoffs
That is a  pretty good sample size and it points to mediocrity. It also seems to be going down hill. Last year the Ticats lost to Toronto, Saskatchewan and Montreal--all past labour day.

We all wanted Kent to be great but so far he hasn't been.

2 Grey Cup appearances!  And should have beat Calgary if not for the flag on Speedy's return!  Thatz not mediocre my friend.  KA's record is no grounds for dismissal consideration.  Sure as heck beats what the other HC's have done since late 1990s.... NOT GOING TO FIND BETTER.

Exactly, i'll never forget that game because it was on my birthday and I told my girlfriend all I wanted that year was to watch the cats win the cup and I remember the room jumping up and down celebrating during the Banks return and then seeing the orange nylon on the field saying no way.. no way.. no way!!! Was speechless the rest of the night.
Austin is the best we have had in a long time and a HOF HC someday.

TommyBoy1

Quote from: "15_championships"
Quote from: "Slomojo2005"
Quote from: "TommyBoy1"
36 and 36 regular season
4 and 4 playoffs
That is a  pretty good sample size and it points to mediocrity. It also seems to be going down hill. Last year the Ticats lost to Toronto, Saskatchewan and Montreal--all past labour day.

We all wanted Kent to be great but so far he hasn't been.

2 Grey Cup appearances!  And should have beat Calgary if not for the flag on Speedy's return!  Thatz not mediocre my friend.  KA's record is no grounds for dismissal consideration.  Sure as heck beats what the other HC's have done since late 1990s.... NOT GOING TO FIND BETTER.

Exactly, i'll never forget that game because it was on my birthday and I told my girlfriend all I wanted that year was to watch the cats win the cup and I remember the room jumping up and down celebrating during the Banks return and then seeing the orange nylon on the field saying no way.. no way.. no way!!! Was speechless the rest of the night.
Austin is the best we have had in a long time and a HOF HC someday.

Exactly. 4 years in and we celebrate  a loss. 500 is 500. Look at Calgary. That's where I'd like to be. Instead we talk about a 500 coach and say hall of fame? Win something first. Win more than you lose first. Until then, Kent is no better than mb or Cortez.

15_championships

MB only ever made the EF and Cortez hit a whopping 6 wins. Kent took the cats to their first GC appearance since 1999 and took them there 2 years in a row. Theyve never been out of the playoffs on his watch. Plenty of teams would like to win it every other year but with 8 other teams competing, its easier said than done. Austin will get us there, you also have to think how many players we have on IR every year. By week 9, 75% of our team is usually backups. The year after the cup loss to CGY, we were blowing teams out of the water in a way we had never seen before and many believed we were going to cake walk to the GC.. then ZC got hurt and it all went down the tubes.
Lets not forget last year ZC was out 6 weeks and Tommy "The traitor" Condell decided to walk on the team a couple of weeks before TC.
Lets see what happens now that coach P has a season and another TC under his belt

Slomojo2005

Tommyboy.  Cortez?   Did you just mention  C O R T E Z  in this coaching discussion?  Useless!

disciplineandpunish

Quote from: "TommyBoy1"
Exactly. 4 years in and we celebrate  a loss. 500 is 500. Look at Calgary. That's where I'd like to be. Instead we talk about a 500 coach and say hall of fame? Win something first. Win more than you lose first. Until then, Kent is no better than mb or Cortez.

I see your point of view but have to disagree about the Cortez comparison, since Cortez fielded a 6-12 team and Austin has at least broken even in his time in Hamilton.

Having said that, Austin the coach has had a lot better talent to work with because of Austin the GM (and Tillman now too, I suppose). Lord knows I'm not Bellefeuille's fan by any means but Kevin Glenn/Quinton Porter is not even close to being the same as Burris/Collaros/Masoli.

In sum, I would say that Austin the coach has achieved significantly more than MB or Cortez but has also under-achieved relative to expectations and the talent he's had to work with. But 2017 will be a pivotal year, to come back to the thread title. A Grey Cup win or appearance to go with a winning regular-season record and the ship is righted. Another .500 year that ends prematurely in the playoffs and fans will (rightly, to my mind) be asking whether or not Austin peaked in his first two years with the team.
"I coach good players a lot better than I coach bad players." -Mark Nelson

Preisst

Quote from: "TommyBoy1"
Exactly. 4 years in and we celebrate  a loss. 500 is 500. Look at Calgary. That's where I'd like to be. Instead we talk about a 500 coach and say hall of fame? Win something first. Win more than you lose first. Until then, Kent is no better than mb or Cortez.

That's odd.  You want to be a good to great regular season team who usually can't win the big game?  I like championships.
"It is a sign of strength, not of weakness, to admit that you don't know all the answers." --John P. Lougbrane

ppull rulz!!!!

ExPat

Quote from: "disciplineandpunish"

Having said that, Austin the coach has had a lot better talent to work with because of Austin the GM (and Tillman now too, I suppose). Lord knows I'm not Bellefeuille's fan by any means but Kevin Glenn/Quinton Porter is not even close to being the same as Burris/Collaros/Masoli.

But you're on record agreeing that Collaros is the most overrated player in the CFL.  Surely it's a great coaching accomplishment to go to a Grey Cup game with an overrated QB who has never achieved anything of note in his career?

(Reminder:  http://forums.ticats.ca/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=103139&p=2074258&hilit=collaros#p2074258)

schmenger

No it was Johnny the Peanut butter and Hotdogs fetish guy who said Zack is overy rated.

ExPat

And who replied to Johnny's comment with three thumbs-up?

I just think you need to choose.  If Zach is overrated, then you can't discount Austin's achievements by saying that he had great players to work with.  Not to mention the fact that most of those players have been put in place by Austin himself, so you need to give him credit for spotting talent.  They didn't just fall from the sky onto our roster.

schmenger

Expat The comments originate from Montreal. What else can you expect?

blackandgld

Quote from: "Preisst"
Quote from: "TommyBoy1"
Exactly. 4 years in and we celebrate  a loss. 500 is 500. Look at Calgary. That's where I'd like to be. Instead we talk about a 500 coach and say hall of fame? Win something first. Win more than you lose first. Until then, Kent is no better than mb or Cortez.

That's odd.  You want to be a good to great regular season team who usually can't win the big game?  I like championships.

Interesting...I have had this discussion over beers many times. The old WOULD YOU RATHER
Would you rather Hamilton be a lousy team 4 out of 5 years and win a cup the 5th season.
OR
Be a top team year in and year out but never win a Cup?

I as a fan prefer to have a top team every year. Give me a reason to tune in week after week.
As a player i want a ring no matter how bad the teams i played on were on otherwise.

Obrigardo

Quote from: "Preisst"
Quote from: "TommyBoy1"
Exactly. 4 years in and we celebrate  a loss. 500 is 500. Look at Calgary. That's where I'd like to be. Instead we talk about a 500 coach and say hall of fame? Win something first. Win more than you lose first. Until then, Kent is no better than mb or Cortez.

That's odd.  You want to be a good to great regular season team who usually can't win the big game?  I like championships.
I'd rather watch a team that wins 12 games.Cortez won 6 and was fired all people are saying is that if austin continues on this downwar d spiral he will be let go

disciplineandpunish

Quote from: "ExPat"
Quote from: "disciplineandpunish"

Having said that, Austin the coach has had a lot better talent to work with because of Austin the GM (and Tillman now too, I suppose). Lord knows I'm not Bellefeuille's fan by any means but Kevin Glenn/Quinton Porter is not even close to being the same as Burris/Collaros/Masoli.

But you're on record agreeing that Collaros is the most overrated player in the CFL.  Surely it's a great coaching accomplishment to go to a Grey Cup game with an overrated QB who has never achieved anything of note in his career?

(Reminder:  http://forums.ticats.ca/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=103139&p=2074258&hilit=collaros#p2074258)

Not sure what that has to do with the discussion. A player can be overrated -- as I think Collaros is -- while still being good. Yes, I think Collaros is overrated. That doesn't mean I think he's trash. Also, he's still better than Kevin Glenn or Quinton Porter.

I mean, do YOU feel that Collaros is not a significant upgrade on Glenn/Porter? I think he is a significant step up from those two, even though I think he's overrated.

disciplineandpunish

Quote from: "blackandgld"
Quote from: "Preisst"
Quote from: "TommyBoy1"
Exactly. 4 years in and we celebrate  a loss. 500 is 500. Look at Calgary. That's where I'd like to be. Instead we talk about a 500 coach and say hall of fame? Win something first. Win more than you lose first. Until then, Kent is no better than mb or Cortez.

That's odd.  You want to be a good to great regular season team who usually can't win the big game?  I like championships.

Interesting...I have had this discussion over beers many times. The old WOULD YOU RATHER
Would you rather Hamilton be a lousy team 4 out of 5 years and win a cup the 5th season.
OR
Be a top team year in and year out but never win a Cup?

I as a fan prefer to have a top team every year. Give me a reason to tune in week after week.
As a player i want a ring no matter how bad the teams i played on were on otherwise.

False binary. Calgary is an elite regular-season team that still wins Grey Cups (2008, 2014) and routinely gets to the Grey Cup game. Sure, they could have won more, but in a league with so much parity and player movement, you're not going to have dynasty-type teams that win three or more Cups in a row. Best you can do is field a great regular-season team and hope that everything comes together for you in the playoffs.

Calgary has won two Cups in the past 10 years AND has still been a great regular-season team. Hamilton has neither won a Cup nor been a great regular-season team.
 


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