ed ohmnes

This is not normal for the riders, there's been no news now for quite a while,  lets have some good news for Christmas,  how about, what's happening with durant ?

StormRider1

I read yesterday that the riders may have fired there complete training staff. Would not surprise me with jones ego driven choices. Need to send him packing with Reynolds.

JimmytheGreek

Not may have but did.  With all the injuries last year and it was noted especially to the hoggies they felt improper methods  were implemented.

ed ohmnes

Yeah this isn't turning out good at all,  really sounding more and more like darian won't be back, to bad.  Hope they don't look at some injury riddled q.b. To come in .  These guys won't last with their attitude toward players.  Next thing they will want to bring drew Tate back or Ricky ray

JimmytheGreek

Quote from: "ed ohmnes"
Yeah this isn't turning out good at all,  really sounding more and more like darian won't be back, to bad.  Hope they don't look at some injury riddled q.b. To come in .  These guys won't last with their attitude toward players.  Next thing they will want to bring drew Tate back or Ricky ray


Funny you mentioned Ray as it is being rumored that he or Burris or possibly Cato are being mentioned. Lol both Ray who can't stay healthy two weeks in a row. Burris ( a real long shot) both are older then Darian  or Cato yes sir re Bob doesn't that make you feel all warm and fuzzy.  

Big speculation that Darian ends up in Montreal, Winnipeg and Toronto also quite possible. It would make sense that he goes to either Montreal or Winnipeg. Montreal wanting to make a splash with Kavis being the new GM and Winnipeg not 100% thrilled on Nichols ask of 450k plus I think some feel Darian could make Winnipeg a very solid contender.

Jones is playing a very foolish game of bluff and has nothing to back it up and Darian knows it. Darian I have heard also knows he can get a better offer out there then what Jones has  put  forward as feeble gesture to keep him.  So unless Jones makes the effort Darian is almost certainly gone.

depopulationINC

Always unfortunate to hear stuff like this...especially when it is a local core

I think that one needs to step back and look at the track record and ask how some of the bigger guys have help up the past few seasons though.  these trainers have seemingly great results in hockey...I am not entirely convinced for football though....which is a shame because some of them left better gigs to get home.  I know I look and see a few things...
- Best continually injured but from what I have been told has never received much for new conditioning techniques in the off-seasons
- Guy came in flirting with being healthy and never progressed to being able to dress...this is very concerning
- Vonk was said to be probably ready when he was on the 6...they broke the rules and snuck him out for a look to see if he was because all other centers were down...he wasn't...the team got nailed for the SMS thing...that'll piss any GM off.
- I've heard they have had really low contact with Gaydosh...really?  this is not concerning...this is shocking.
- How many leg blowouts have they seen...concerning...clearly something needs to be focused on for the big boys
- JSJ was supposed to be shadowed...he is not
- The coaching staff laid out some very very specific off-season training, strength and conditioning needs for some specific players, and I don't think a lot of those have been met thus far.  I know it has only been a month and a half since the Rider season ended, but we are 20-25% through the off-season for them...this is a pretty big deal to a coach like jones...i mean he talked about it a bit in his season ending presser

....these are just a few of the things i have noticed/heard.  No doubt there are more.  I know that this training staff is very good at certain things...but I question if they are good with the big guys, i question if they are doing enough player specific things, and I question if they are adapting enough for repetitive issues.

JimmytheGreek

Interesting article and to show  where there is smoke there is fire.

[urlhttp://3downnation.com/2016/12/16/kavis-reed-charge-alouettes-target-darian-durant/][/url]

depopulationINC

Quote from: "JimmytheGreek "
Interesting article and to show  where there is smoke there is fire.

[urlhttp://3downnation.com/2016/12/16/kavis-reed-charge-alouettes-target-darian-durant/][/url]


i have not read it, but I know ownership (the kid) is pushing for it and was the one that made Popp feel out a trade and also get numbers to him.  From what I have heard the kid is way way hands on...it is a factor in the job being turned down by the primary guy...Kavis was willing to do as he is told ti get the job.   In some senses Montreal has solid ownership...in other ways they are bad....conditions on staff and players for a GM....that is just the start

GC Bound

Quote from: "JimmytheGreek "
Interesting article and to show  where there is smoke there is fire.

[urlhttp://3downnation.com/2016/12/16/kavis-reed-charge-alouettes-target-darian-durant/][/url]


Jones has The Riders in a complete 'frieken Mess'!! :cowboy:

ed ohmnes

Yes it's very irritating, to see what's going on, and the way they are treating durant,  same as with chick and dressler I guess, really almost makes me not want to watch anymore

JimmytheGreek

So Depop  what  do you think is going on in Jone's head? I mean the Franklin being a FA is out the window and sure he could make a trade for him still but at what cost? Realistically as I mentioned a couple of times Hervey want JSJ and our first round pick back in June and we had Darian under contract then,  now that we don't have a legitimate starter on the team again Hervey would be asking a very high price and you can't blame him for that, so without giving up an NI and probably at least a first round and possibly a starting NI too how can Jones make a trade and still build the team?

There is nothing out there that makes one feel there is a legitimate replacement for Darian so again what is Jones thinking? The only FA is Nichols that is remotely close to Darian's abilities and he will cost even more then Darian would so that isn't a smart move. So what trade for Burris, Ray, ? What would that do for us, getting even older and having to trade for them?

Sure I get that Jones is trying to get Darian for dirt cheap but this game of bluff and everyone knows you have nothing in your hand is committing suicide in my opinion. I'm not saying you have to give Darian all that he wants but heck why not take last years contract and just tweak it a bit? I mean here is Darian's contract from last year.

       

So apparently Darian is asking for 200k signing bonus down 50 k from last year. Also rumor has it the team and Darian are about 100k apart on a deal and Jones doesn't want to give Darian big upfront money but more incentive base contract which is absurd to think Darian would go for so instead of being stupid  offer him 100k upfront keep everything else the same but instead of a 105k base make it 125k  leave the housing and all the other incentives exactly the same as last year though. That would work out to approx to 315k if Darian played the to the exact same numbers as last year, so the amount could vary a little with more or (hopefully not) less depending on games played. That would be almost a130k saving for the team. Now Darian would probably bulk at dropping that much but who knows? Make the offer at least and get some kind of talks hopefully started again. Perhaps the team may have to go up to 140k base but still it would be a significant drop in upfront money going from 250k down to 100k so perhaps that is the trade off.  

I just don't get this whole thing of playing chicken by either side. OH I understand no one wants to be  the one to make the first call as it could be seen as caving in. Still to see this play out or worse  yet not seeing anything playing out is just ridiculous.  Yes there is still time before FA but if there is any cap money left this year why not use some of that and give it as part of the signing bonus so it has no effect on next years cap?  I  keep hearing Jones and Murphy have a back up plan and sure they may have but honestly when you look at what is out there or available without hurting the teams potential to grow, man I honestly can't see "plan B" being a good one. Enough of this crap and at least make an effort to get a deal done with Darian, if he walks at FA with no serious talks,  Jones needs to be held by his toes over the fire for not getting something last year when he had a chance to. Honestly if he felt he had Darian by the short hairs and he would be begging to stay here and Darian would sign a insanely bogus contract, he really really really misread that scenario playing out.  That is something that if it plays out that way then Jones should be on a very short rope.  You don't allow assets walk for nothing and you don't let your starting qb walk without at least making an honest effort to make a deal with them. If Jones goes 0-2 on this one he should have only one more strike and then given a road map out of here.

depopulationINC

Quote from: "JimmytheGreek "
So Depop  what  do you think is going on in Jone's head? I mean the Franklin being a FA is out the window and sure he could make a trade for him still but at what cost? Realistically as I mentioned a couple of times Hervey want JSJ and our first round pick back in June and we had Darian under contract then,  now that we don't have a legitimate starter on the team again Hervey would be asking a very high price and you can't blame him for that, so without giving up an NI and probably at least a first round and possibly a starting NI too how can Jones make a trade and still build the team?

There is nothing out there that makes one feel there is a legitimate replacement for Darian so again what is Jones thinking? The only FA is Nichols that is remotely close to Darian's abilities and he will cost even more then Darian would so that isn't a smart move. So what trade for Burris, Ray, ? What would that do for us, getting even older and having to trade for them?

Sure I get that Jones is trying to get Darian for dirt cheap but this game of bluff and everyone knows you have nothing in your hand is committing suicide in my opinion. I'm not saying you have to give Darian all that he wants but heck why not take last years contract and just tweak it a bit? I mean here is Darian's contract from last year.

       

So apparently Darian is asking for 200k signing bonus down 50 k from last year. Also rumor has it the team and Darian are about 100k apart on a deal and Jones doesn't want to give Darian big upfront money but more incentive base contract which is absurd to think Darian would go for so instead of being stupid  offer him 100k upfront keep everything else the same but instead of a 105k base make it 125k  leave the housing and all the other incentives exactly the same as last year though. That would work out to approx to 315k if Darian played the to the exact same numbers as last year, so the amount could vary a little with more or (hopefully not) less depending on games played. That would be almost a130k saving for the team. Now Darian would probably bulk at dropping that much but who knows? Make the offer at least and get some kind of talks hopefully started again. Perhaps the team may have to go up to 140k base but still it would be a significant drop in upfront money going from 250k down to 100k so perhaps that is the trade off.  

I just don't get this whole thing of playing chicken by either side. OH I understand no one wants to be  the one to make the first call as it could be seen as caving in. Still to see this play out or worse  yet not seeing anything playing out is just ridiculous.  Yes there is still time before FA but if there is any cap money left this year why not use some of that and give it as part of the signing bonus so it has no effect on next years cap?  I  keep hearing Jones and Murphy have a back up plan and sure they may have but honestly when you look at what is out there or available without hurting the teams potential to grow, man I honestly can't see "plan B" being a good one. Enough of this crap and at least make an effort to get a deal done with Darian, if he walks at FA with no serious talks,  Jones needs to be held by his toes over the fire for not getting something last year when he had a chance to. Honestly if he felt he had Darian by the short hairs and he would be begging to stay here and Darian would sign a insanely bogus contract, he really really really misread that scenario playing out.  That is something that if it plays out that way then Jones should be on a very short rope.  You don't allow assets walk for nothing and you don't let your starting qb walk without at least making an honest effort to make a deal with them. If Jones goes 0-2 on this one he should have only one more strike and then given a road map out of here.


what is going on in his head...DD's upfront ask is too high...he needs to reduce that.  This is not a first time contract to lure him in free agency...it is not present management's issue that previous management gave renewals too much up front

what else...that we are still a couple months from free agency so it is no mad panic...as far as Franklin goes...there was some funny business with the contract...hence why he talked to Moon on it....he got kinda hard balled by Hervey and screwed over a bit

DD himself has stated the numbers are not as far off as the media is saying...he was playing his cards to the media in that end of season interview and now he gets it...that won't effect Jones and good on Jones for that.

Jones wants a pricepoint that protects sms if the QB goes down and that makes room to pay #2 good coin if #1 is not starting for whatever reason...durrants offer does not offer that

Taleback

I Realize that stuff depop, but what do you think is Jones plan B, Franklin aside. I say Framklin aside as I would be amazed if Hervey were to deal him to Jones. Hervey is going to have more than just Jones asking about the price for him so it's not like it's Riders or Esks as only options for Hervey and Franklin. On top of that Franklin supposedly has NFL aspirations so getting him to sign a longer term deal, if they were able to get him out of Edmonton, would not be likely. So to say they would be replacing the old with a new franchise Q.B. is pretty far fetched also if he will want to bolt down south after a season or 2. My gut says Hervey isn't going to give him to anyone before mid season 2017, to make sure on Riellys health and all. Also to say that Durant is pricing himself out of the market with his demands also seems a bit over the top. I'm quite sure Montreal, Toronto and even Winnipeg, if Nicholls doesn't pan out, would have no problem giving Durant his current ask and then some, so that's what the market is, not what Jones thinks it is. Again it all comes down to the question, what is his plan B?

depopulationINC

Quote from: "Taleback"
I Realize that stuff depop, but what do you think is Jones plan B, Franklin aside. I say Framklin aside as I would be amazed if Hervey were to deal him to Jones. Hervey is going to have more than just Jones asking about the price for him so it's not like it's Riders or Esks as only options for Hervey and Franklin. On top of that Franklin supposedly has NFL aspirations so getting him to sign a longer term deal, if they were able to get him out of Edmonton, would not be likely. So to say they would be replacing the old with a new franchise Q.B. is pretty far fetched also if he will want to bolt down south after a season or 2. My gut says Hervey isn't going to give him to anyone before mid season 2017, to make sure on Riellys health and all. Also to say that Durant is pricing himself out of the market with his demands also seems a bit over the top. I'm quite sure Montreal, Toronto and even Winnipeg, if Nicholls doesn't pan out, would have no problem giving Durant his current ask and then some, so that's what the market is, not what Jones thinks it is. Again it all comes down to the question, what is his plan B?


I am sure he has multiple backup plans.  Only way i would have counted on Franklin is as a FA...because the Bombers are idiots if they are not in on a move for him and have the picks to do it.

Plan b....maybe burris or Lulay, maybe Ray...more likely someone not already in the mix...there are a couple that come to my mind...i am sure Jones has a few in mind as well.  If it shakes out that DD is in Winnipeg I expect Nichols would be a Rider...he seems like he would fit the O game plan very well in all honesty....laugh all you want...I think he does

As far as DD's ask...I didn't say he was overpricing himself at all...the full compensation potential is on the same page for both sides...but DD wants too much upfront...that is what I said.  Knock the 200 down to 75 and in exchange for that the incentives get changed...that is the tradeoff.  IMO Jones made an offer with pretty ridiculous incentives...and he did that to negotiate down that upfront cash...because it is too much for a renewal.  

I think if something like a 75k bonus, 240 base, 65 in achievable + 20 in harder incentives was tabled by DD Jones signs and calls it a day.

As far as  Toronto, Winnipeg and Montreal....they are in a "win now" condition....so good for them.  jones is looking beyond now....something a lot of long time Rider fans are simply not used to (sorry, but it is true...grabby was the only one I really know of that did long term...i guess Shivers did to but he didn't have the money / parity).  Montreal's desire is only guided by a fixation by ownership...good for them...and if DD wants to be the highest paid insurance plan in the league, have at it.

Taleback

Holy smokes. If Burris, Lulay or Ray are Jones's way of looking beyond the now and to the future Riders are in a lot more trouble than I thought. Also Jones on one hand says, in his little interview where he humiliates Durant IMO, that he feels he can win the Q.B.'s that are already on the roster if Durant deal doesn't get done. Then on the other hand he says he needs less money for Durant so he can pay a good second stringer. Guess what. The ones he feels he can win with already on the roster are signed for this year, so what is that extra cash needed for the # 2 Q.B. thing all about? Not saying that I disagree with you or Jones's on how he wants to pursue this thing with Durant, just curious on what his thought process may be.
 


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